TheTruth527 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Interested to hear what people would do in this situation (sorry dont have the HH or all of the exact details so i will approximate)...So im playing a $5 tourney on FT and we are down to 55 players with 45 paying...i dont play many tournaments, but when i do i make a conscious effort to try to win so I end up bubbling a lot. The hand i went out on in 54th place i thought was really interesting, i was on the button with 78dd, UTG limps, the player to my right just limps, so i limp behind him, small blind completes and big blind checks, at the time i was sitting in 36th of 55 i think with about 9k in chips...everyone else at the table had pretty similar stacks, flop comes 4-5-6 with two spades, sb goes all in and has me covered, BB folds, UTG smooth calls (he doesnt have many chips left) player to my right folds, and im sitting there with the nuts for all my chips, if i call and triple up id be in top 10 of chips which is right where i want to be, however with two callers and the board as it is, my hand is not going to improve. I end up making the call and UTG has 5 9 with one spade, and the SB has 66...board pairs the 4 on the turn and i lost the 32k pot...my question is would a fold have been the right play even if my goal is to win? if im just up against the SB i call no questions asked, but when the UTG enters the fray, i have to have my hand stand up against 2 players and im obvi not as confident in that case. I put the SB on a draw and the UTG on an over pair or something like AQssWould anyone possibly fold this hand?? My best case scenario is that the UTG has a PP higher that the board and the SB is on some kind of a draw, but worse case is that one has set and another has a flush draw in which case im only 38% to win the pot, is that just too much of an outside chance to fold in that situation. I never thought id be questioning calling with the flopped nuts, but as i think about it more and more, i dont know if there was away out without going broke, your thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Never fold unless the dealer accidently deals the turn before you make your decision or one of the player flips up the nuts with the flush draw before you call. Link to post Share on other sites
psych202 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 You did the right thing. You had the best hand at the time and the odds were way in your favor. It was just a bad beat and was unavoidable. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 dont even consider folding for a second. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Just one question. If you're considering folding this why would you play the hand PF? Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 My best case scenario is that the UTG has a PP higher that the board and the SB is on some kind of a draw, but worse case is that one has set and another has a flush draw in which case im only 38% to win the pot, is that just too much of an outside chance to fold in that situation.No your best case is they both have the lower end of the straight - not exactly likely though.You're worst case is them both having the same straight as you, but one having the flush draw (and the other having the backdoor flush draw...). Again not so likely - it's not omaha after all... Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Just one question. If you're considering folding this why would you play the hand PF?Thats a good question I dunno how you can consider folding here???Also, its bubble time, you have a great spot to take this pot down pf. Raisey daisy OMG! Perfect hand and perfect situation to make a move preflop and add to your stack.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
DunkinDonuts 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Even if, for example, you put both callers on 66 and As7s respectively (giving a spade draw a few additional outs to the same straight), your equity is still almost exactly 33.3%, meaning it would be a neutral EV play if you were all-in and the other two had you covered (not accounting for blinds and folding limpers).The bottom line is your call wouldn't be a bad one even if you could see your opponents cards and they had the hands described above. With the hands as they were, you were almost a 2:1 favorite over your opponents. The only way I can see a fold being correct in that situation is if one of your opponents flashes you 7s8s, leaving you drawing to a roughly 40 percent chance at a split. Otherwise, I would push my chips in so fast I would strain my avatar's supraspinatus muscle. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 You absolutely have to make that call, no questions, no regrets. The best you can do in poker is get your chips in with the best of it and hope you don't get sucked out on. Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Yeah dude dont fold the nuts. Pretty simple rule of thumb.P.S. I like the limp in UTG with 9 5 off. Link to post Share on other sites
thecove 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 You have to play to win. You got your money in with the best of it and that's all you can ask. It all came down to the luck of the draw at that point.Let's pit it this way, if the turn and river are blanks, you wouldn't have posted this topic. It could have just as easily went that way too.Remember, poker is one long session, if you continue playing right, in the long run you will be ahead.You are playing right don't second guess yourself here. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Can we please stop having bad beat posts moved to mtt strat? Mods? Seriously, a "should I have called with the nuts" post? WTF. Link to post Share on other sites
TheTruth527 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 thanks for all of the thoughtful replies...reason i didnt push was that i was worried about the UTG limper having a big hand...other than that it sounds like i made the correct play...i never thought that in a non-satellite i would question folding the nuts after the flop, thanks all for making me see the light! Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Can we please stop having bad beat posts moved to mtt strat? Mods? Seriously, a "should I have called with the nuts" post? WTF.ditto Link to post Share on other sites
TheTruth527 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Can we please stop having bad beat posts moved to mtt strat? Mods? Seriously, a "should I have called with the nuts" post? WTF.Dude, no offense but i dont make many posts and i just thought it was an interesting hand...not once did i mention bad beat, just curious if people thought they had an advantage in a tourney would they sacrifice their life, albeit while holding the nuts (against 2 opponents who put all their chips in the middle on the bubble), when they know they could be only a 38% favorite...just thought it was an interesting situation and wanted to hear people's thoughts, whats your problem? Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Dude, no offense but i dont make many posts and i just thought it was an interesting hand...not once did i mention bad beat, just curious if people thought they had an advantage in a tourney would they sacrifice their life, albeit while holding the nuts (against 2 opponents who put all their chips in the middle on the bubble), when they know they could be only a 38% favorite...just thought it was an interesting situation and wanted to hear people's thoughts, whats your problem?Your original question in the OP was "Should I call w/ the nuts here if I'm playing to win?"It seems to me you know the answer to that question, and want some pity for getting outdrawn for a huge pot. These types of hands play themselves, and once all the money is in the middle, there's nothing more you can do. That is where the luck/unluck comes into play.ChrisRichey has a very good point... No way in HELL do you ever fold the nuts here, ESPECIALLY if you're playing for first. You only posted this hand because you got outdrawn, a.k.a. bad-beated. This is poker man, gotta take the variance when it hits. Take a 5 outter on the river for a $2,600 WCOOP ME satellite ticket, then BBFIDTS. Lose JJ to 10 10 for a sunday mil satellite ticket, BBFIDTS. (all mine.. lol.)Get it in w/ the nuts and get outdrawn.... BBFIDTS.p.s.thanks for all of the thoughtful replies...reason i didnt push was that i was worried about the UTG limper having a big hand...other than that it sounds like i made the correct play...i never thought that in a non-satellite i would question folding the nuts after the flop, thanks all for making me see the light!I thought you said you pushed? Meh...? Link to post Share on other sites
TheTruth527 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Your original question in the OP was "Should I call w/ the nuts here if I'm playing to win?"It seems to me you know the answer to that question, and want some pity for getting outdrawn for a huge pot. These types of hands play themselves, and once all the money is in the middle, there's nothing more you can do. That is where the luck/unluck comes into play.ChrisRichey has a very good point... No way in HELL do you ever fold the nuts here, ESPECIALLY if you're playing for first. You only posted this hand because you got outdrawn, a.k.a. bad-beated. This is poker man, gotta take the variance when it hits. Take a 5 outter on the river for a $2,600 WCOOP ME satellite ticket, then BBFIDTS. Lose JJ to 10 10 for a sunday mil satellite ticket, BBFIDTS. (all mine.. lol.)Get it in w/ the nuts and get outdrawn.... BBFIDTS.p.s.I thought you said you pushed? Meh...?Never once have I made a bad beat post or anything like it, and for you to infer that i created this topic as a disguised bad beat is ridiculous, i dont even know what BBFIDTS means...in any case, was just looking to get some insight if others would have potentially folded. I guess it goes along the same theory that in early stages you want to avoid coin flips etc, my thought process was that i could be up against two powerful draws and be a 1/3 chance winner, now that i see what others have typed i realize that no matter what the scenario it was a good call, so whats the problem? am i not allowed to ask for others opinions/...it was a $5 tourney so not exactly the World Series, and this "bad beat post" was just designed to seek out opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It is still a bad beat story even if you're not complaining about it.There is no strategy to be discussed here. This is not pot limit Omaha, where it is sometimes correct to fold the nut straight on the flop becuase you know that you're not a money favorite in the potThis is Texas holdem. You flopped the nuts. You break your arm shoving your chips into the pot (or your finger clicking the mouse)You know that there's no reason to ever consider folding here, so why are you asking? That's why they say BBFIDTS. Link to post Share on other sites
TheTruth527 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 It is still a bad beat story even if you're not complaining about it.There is no strategy to be discussed here. This is not pot limit Omaha, where it is sometimes correct to fold the nut straight on the flop becuase you know that you're not a money favorite in the potThis is Texas holdem. You flopped the nuts. You break your arm shoving your chips into the pot (or your finger clicking the mouse)You know that there's no reason to ever consider folding here, so why are you asking? That's why they say BBFIDTS.ok lets just end it....i still dont know what BBFIDTS means Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ok lets just end it....i still dont know what BBFIDTS meansBad Beat Forum Is Down The Street. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 My post wasn't directed at you, it was at the mods because I believe you originally posted this in general and it was moved here, where it does not belong. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 My post wasn't directed at you, it was at the mods because I believe you originally posted this in general and it was moved here, where it does not belong.Well, I don't control what gets moved here, but I can move anything FROM here.Having said that, this is definitely just a bad beat post.For the future, OP, we'd love to have you contribute to strategy. If you would like to make a post, we just ask that you follow the rules in the stickied Forum Posting Guidelines thread, specifically not to include results. If you didn't include the results, we could make a case for this being a strat post, but since it's just one of those "I got it in with the best hand and lost" posts, I'm gonna move it.However, one strategic point I'd like to make light of, is that poker is a long run game, and one result does not matter. If you lose one hand where you got it in with the best of it, it does not matter. The more hands you play, the more times you will come up with the exact situation, and in the long run, the odds will prevail and you will make money getting it in with the best hand.Cheers,- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
TheTruth527 0 Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ok a couple of things...one, i originally posted this in general, and it got moved to strategy, so everyone needs to get off my case about me puttinga "bad beat" story in the strategy section....two, i guess the point of my "bad beat" story was that its obviously an easy call if its just one opponent, but two opponents with the types of hands i thought they had puts me to be 33% winner and thus i retrospectively questioned my call...im just a micro limit tournament player and thought that it would be a good hand to discuss, once again i never put this OP in strategy and for me to get flamed like this is ridiculous...that is all Link to post Share on other sites
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