Daniel And Online Gaming

[Grumpy 0]

Hi everyone, and Hi Daniel (my poker guru) ...As we all know online gaming, or online poker, is HUGE. The number of players online at any given time is just crazy. 40,000 players at once, a lot of money on the tables, it's crazy. But is it good for poker? Yes, it made the game mainstream, we have a lot more players, a lot more money in tournamants, poker is on TV, poker is online, poker is everywhere. We have close to 70 million players in the USA, we can play with pro's, and what not, but is it really good for poker?Based on Daniel's blogs, I don't think he is the biggest online poker fan, and same here. I lost a lot of money online (ok, not a lot, around 2000$ and then I stopped), while I made A LOT of money live (a lot is, making a living), where I think it's the TRUE poker game. Why I don't do well online? maybe because it's rigged, or I play 5 tables at once ... Why do I feel there are a lot more bad beats? maybe because I play so many hands, or because online is not 100% random.So I would love to see what you guys think about this topic, and especialy Daniel, because I feel, that not like many pro's, Daniel agrees online might be a problem for poker, rather than the big key for what we got today. I also felt that when Daniel was on Full Tilt Poker, and most of the pro's (phil ivey mainly) where really excited about online, while Daniel was looking to talk about the "REAL STUFF".Don't get me wrong, without online poker, poker wouldn't be SO huge, but the way it's done, and the way people play online poker, might not be great for what poker really is.That's my OPINION ...

[jsagan77 0]

Hi everyone, and Hi Daniel (my poker guru) ...As we all know online gaming, or online poker, is HUGE. The number of players online at any given time is just crazy. 40,000 players at once, a lot of money on the tables, it's crazy. But is it good for poker? Yes, it made the game mainstream, we have a lot more players, a lot more money in tournamants, poker is on TV, poker is online, poker is everywhere. We have close to 70 million players in the USA, we can play with pro's, and what not, but is it really good for poker?Based on Daniel's blogs, I don't think he is the biggest online poker fan, and same here. I lost a lot of money online (ok, not a lot, around 2000$ and then I stopped), while I made A LOT of money live (a lot is, making a living), where I think it's the TRUE poker game. Why I don't do well online? maybe because it's rigged, or I play 5 tables at once ... Why do I feel there are a lot more bad beats? maybe because I play so many hands, or because online is not 100% random.So I would love to see what you guys think about this topic, and especialy Daniel, because I feel, that not like many pro's, Daniel agrees online might be a problem for poker, rather than the big key for what we got today. I also felt that when Daniel was on Full Tilt Poker, and most of the pro's (phil ivey mainly) where really excited about online, while Daniel was looking to talk about the "REAL STUFF".Don't get me wrong, without online poker, poker wouldn't be SO huge, but the way it's done, and the way people play online poker, might not be great for what poker really is.That's my OPINION ...

I'm with you, for some reason I win a lot more live than online (probably the tells aspect) however, I am getting better at online play. I won't risk a lot of money online because of the fact that I don't trust random number generation software. In theory it is correct but can a computer ever be %100 accurately random? I don't know enough about the actual programs to make a general exclamation but I know enough about various other products to assume that they can be influenced in a number of different ways to make the online casino's more money. Some of the glaring weaknesses I've seen in some of the recent gambling software is small pairs beating out bigger pairs more regularly they should (again only my assumption, this could only be backed up with statistical data) and the timing of all in type hands. Have you ever noticed that when a 9 person SNG is down to 4 that the shorter stack will lose an all in a lot more often than a big stack will? Miracle 3 outers, small pairs beat big pairs, runner runner flush/strait. Most of these "bad" calls are what you want in a normal circumstance but how many of these horrid suck outs can you see before you get so frustrated that you put down the mouse for good? People will argue, "what would onilne poker sites have to gain if they were to skew hands so that these crazy suckouts occur more often?" Well that is easy, the more tables they fill the more money they earn; the less time it takes for a tourney to complete the more tournies they can have in a day. Over time this will add up to a great deal of profit for the company, which to me, relates back to why these companies are in business, to make money.I know this can be debated because of the lack of statistical data, but this is my opinion based on what I observe. I'm not saying it is right but it is what I think could be a possibility of why so many good players find it hard to make money playing online.

[tsuruninja 0]

crack is wack kids

[trader1499 0]

I have noticed in crucial tournies..the small stacks go against the big stacks sometimes with dominating hands and the big stack gets the suck out often to knock out a player. It is much different live, though there are suck outs in both. The addicts will say other wise, but it is a much different game live as far as suck outs and small stacks getting taken out of tournies.

[Zeatrix 0]

or because online is not 100% random.

Well, Online poker is exactly as random as live poker. See, online poker decks are shuffled by algorithms that rely on random number generators. These generators aren't 100% random in that they are still generated by a computer. It is extremely hard though to forsee what the next number will be. In live poker a dealer shuffels the cards. This is not random since his precise actions produce a shuffled deck. This is still not random, but it is so hard to predict what the next card is that it is considered random.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Based on Daniel's blogs, I don't think he is the biggest online poker fan, and same here. I lost a lot of money online (ok, not a lot, around 2000$ and then I stopped), while I made A LOT of money live (a lot is, making a living), where I think it's the TRUE poker game. Why I don't do well online? maybe because it's rigged, or I play 5 tables at once ... Why do I feel there are a lot more bad beats? maybe because I play so many hands, or because online is not 100% random.

At what point and why did you rule out the possibility that the people you were playing online were better poker players than you?

[tipster1964 0]

Well, Online poker is exactly as random as live poker. See, online poker decks are shuffled by algorithms that rely on random number generators. These generators aren't 100% random in that they are still generated by a computer. It is extremely hard though to forsee what the next number will be. In live poker a dealer shuffels the cards. This is not random since his precise actions produce a shuffled deck. This is still not random, but it is so hard to predict what the next card is that it is considered random.

Agreed, its all random and neither is predetermined. In a live game you can only be in one spot at one time. On line, you can be at numerous tables at once (and if you are as talented as Elky, you can play 12+ tables simultaneously), therefore experiencing more suckouts and possibly not your best play because you attention isn't focused on one table. In my opinion, seeing more hands is a shorter period of time will create the illusion of a higher rate of loss. Compare apples to apples and play your same game and a single table online, and I think it would be close to the same. Even though there are no physical tells to be seen, there are online tells (patterns of play) that can be picked up to give you an advantage.

[asytnik 0]

Agreed, its all random and neither is predetermined. In a live game you can only be in one spot at one time. On line, you can be at numerous tables at once (and if you are as talented as Elky, you can play 12+ tables simultaneously), therefore experiencing more suckouts and possibly not your best play because you attention isn't focused on one table. In my opinion, seeing more hands is a shorter period of time will create the illusion of a higher rate of loss. Compare apples to apples and play your same game and a single table online, and I think it would be close to the same. Even though there are no physical tells to be seen, there are online tells (patterns of play) that can be picked up to give you an advantage.

THAT I think is the key difference. When you're playing live you're picking up every bit of information about your opponents, especially if you're out of a hand. Online if you get dealt garbage what do you usually do? You click the fold check mark and look for action in your other tables. My beef isn't as much with Online Poker vs Live vs Multi-tablers but with the plethora of poker software (PokerTracker and PokerAceHud to name a few). Every single successful multi-tabler uses this 3rd party "cheating" software. I can't believe it is still not against the TOS. Live players are always concerned about their table image, but online while it's still somewhat useful, at times it could be totally crippling to bank on your table image if you're playing at a table full of HUD bots who don't notice. If a player tries smallball in this type of environment, they are surely bound for disaster.

[jsagan77 0]

Well, Online poker is exactly as random as live poker. See, online poker decks are shuffled by algorithms that rely on random number generators. These generators aren't 100% random in that they are still generated by a computer. It is extremely hard though to forsee what the next number will be. In live poker a dealer shuffels the cards. This is not random since his precise actions produce a shuffled deck. This is still not random, but it is so hard to predict what the next card is that it is considered random.

Dictionary.com1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers. 2. Statistics. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen. So a dealers deal is completely random, and the only reservation I have with random number generation is that a computer can only do what it is told to do. It processes data and creates it logically from protocols. I'm sure that there is a way to make it random, but I doubt that the technology we are using is 100%, even if it 99.9999999% the variation is so vast that a miscalculation over billions of hands can make companies millions over time. I do agree with the other posters about the lack of physical data in the online world making it harder to be as consistant as live play, not that there isn't money to be made online (there is tons) I just think that you need to play the averages and a lot more hours to make a descent living. More power to you if you are an online pro because i believe it would take a ton of dicipline and resolve to handle those types of beats and continue to win.

[asytnik 0]

On the topic of bad beats, I think it has to do more so with Online Poker Psychology rather than the RNGs. Two main points:1. It's so much easier for players to play like donkeys online because of the Anonymity factor.2. Players are playing more hands per hour at a single table, this number gets even larger when multiplied by the number of extra tables they are playing.The combination of these two creates the illusion that online poker is "rigged" or isn't really random. And the better player you are, the more bad beats you will encounter and vice versa if you're a bad player. It's just natural.