.25/.50 Hi/lo Hand

[ramenandeggs 0]

Hand #18590035267 Card Stud *High-Low* ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.10*3rd Street* - (1.60 SB)Buddylee 77: xx xx 2h___foldsdb9db9db9: xx xx Js___foldsIplaythabored: xx xx 9d___foldsspinner9: xx xx Ts___foldsHero: Qd Ad Ac___completesQueenBee54: xx xx 2c___*brings-in*___callsbowski120: xx xx 6h___calls___callswagoodrich: xx xx Kh___calls___calls*4th Street* - (5.60 SB)Hero: Qd Ad Ac Qs___*bets*QueenBee54: xx xx 2c 7d___callsbowski120: xx xx 6h 2d___callswagoodrich: xx xx Kh 7c___calls*5th Street* - (4.80 BB)Hero: Qd Ad Ac Qs Jd___*bets*QueenBee54: xx xx 2c 7d Qc___callsbowski120: xx xx 6h 2d 8c___callswagoodrich: xx xx Kh 7c 6c___calls*6th Street* - (8.80 BB)Hero: Qd Ad Ac Qs Jd 5s___???QueenBee54: xx xx 2c 7d Qc 5dbowski120: xx xx 6h 2d 8c 9cwagoodrich: xx xx Kh 7c 6c 8dI wanted check-raise on 6th but 1) is it a good spot? and 2) is my hand good enough? 3) is pot too big at this point to scare anyone out of the hand or deny their odds? It looked like to me that I had high locked, any straight draws were ****-blocked by each other. trying to learn this game to improve my horse since i'm mainly a tourney player. so general cash game strategies are helpful too if I don't want to go broke . i bought in for $12 here. how many big bets should i be sitting down with?

[NEtwowilldo 0]

$12 is enough for a .25/.50 table. Usually around 20 big bets is good enough for a limit game. As for this hand, it appears to me like you have the best high hand right now, though some may be drawing slim for a straight. Bowski could have 5 7, but there's only two sevens left, and that's the only hand that would make sense that could have your high hand beat, but I think you're still good. QueenBee seems to have the best low with a made 7, and bowski appears to have a made 8. I have no idea what to put goodrich on, but I think its a safe assumption that he won't be getting any part of this pot. I think you want to keep bowski and goodrich in, so I think a c/r might work here. If you check, QueenBee might bet her low, and the other two may call just one bet. However if you bet out, QueenBee might raise, and push the other two out. Even if she just calls, we can't expect either of the other two to raise, so the action will be closed out before it gets back to you. By checking, I think we create the opportunity to get double the bets into the pot. Im no stud 8/b expert, but that's my analysis of this hand.

[DWMREP 0]

Unless you really know your players, I would just bet out. They have played passivly the whole time and you really don't have any reason to belive any one is going to bet their low there. Unless you have an aggrodonk who auto bets when checked to. A good player would have a decent idea you were going high and probably not raise without a draw to a high better than yours, so I think you should just bet out.

[Ricer98 0]

I think this is a toss up given the low limits. I can see a few different senarios where the check raise could pay off.QueenBee has a made low, and bets out for value against Bowski, who could redraw to a better low. From what I've seen at these limits Bowski will definelty call with the inferior low, putting the action to Wagoodrich. Getting 10.8 to 1 odds against two players showing low boards, I think he calls with as little a lone pair of kings or small two pair. Prossibly with an even worse holding. Thus setting us up for the desired pull play, traping everyone for an extra bet. An even more desierable but less likely scenario, is that given the above action to Wagoodrich, our check convinces him he has the best high and raises. Putting myself in his shoes, you've represented aces since 3rd, but now slowed down on 6th. This would lead me to believe one of two things, you either didn't have aces to start with, or they havn't improved. I'd probably be raising kings up in this spot, maybe smaller two pair.There is also of course the chance that QueenBee and Bowski check to Wagoodrich. In which case we need to hope he will bet out with a weaker high hand. Otherwise checking just cost us a bet instead of gaining one. I'd say go for the check raise given a couple different factors. If you've seen QueenBee lead at pots with only a low. Or, If you think Wagoodrich is an aggressive player who thinks about more than his own cards and will try to capitalize on your show of weakness. Given these limits I'd say the odds of the second are slim to none and as these games are usually fairly passive the first is a stretch as well. The most likely action I see given our check is simply for it to be checked around. Mostly with this hands I'd just keep pounding the pot knowing I'm getting called and over called by worse holdings than my own. I also like just leading for the small chance someone behind will raise. There's enough donks out there that will raise you with a shot at only half the pot. You'd be suprised how many people at these limits will call 2 and 3 bets cold with marginal holdings that only have a chance for the half the pot. If you were to bet and QueenBee raise, odds are the other two are calling 2 bets cold, Bowski obviously with a low, and Wagoodrich hoping his high will be best. So as far as your questions go:1) good spot at higher limits or under certain conditions2) yeah, except for small trips or an improbable straight were probably good here3) the pot is probably large enough that you won't scare anyone out, which we shouldn't be trying to do anyway

[Vman96 0]

I think this is a bad place to check/raise unless you think queen bee is aggro enough to 3-bet, which i doubt, considering her board. The pot is too big for anyone here to fold to 1 bet probably. You want your check/raise to possibly thin out weak draws. Check raising for value is pretty marginal here. You probably have >25% equity...but not a ton more than that. I rather lead out, and have her raise...making the other two players having to call two.

[Ricer98 0]

I think this is a bad place to check/raise unless you think queen bee is aggro enough to 3-bet, which i doubt, considering her board. The pot is too big for anyone here to fold to 1 bet probably. You want your check/raise to possibly thin out weak draws. Check raising for value is pretty marginal here. You probably have >25% equity...but not a ton more than that. I rather lead out, and have her raise...making the other two players having to call two.

I agree that just leading out is probably the best play. But I'm not against check raising for value. I ran some calculations making some guesses as to what the others hold.First Senario:Player - Board - EVHero - Qd,Ad,Ac,Qs,Jd,5s - .438QueenBee - Ah,6s,2c,7d,Qc,5d - .370Bowski - As,4d,6h,2d,8c,9c - .130Wagoo - Kd,7s,Kh,7c,6c,8d - .062If I were in this hand I put QueenBee and Bowski on made lows and Wagoo with kings up. This would be best case senario, no one having a flush or straight draw. Second Senario:Player - Board - EVHero: - Qd,Ad,Ac,Qs,Jd,5s - .313QueenBee: - 3d,6d,2c,7d,Qc,5d - .427Bowski: - As,4d,6h,2d,8c,9c - .137Wagoo: - Kd,9s,Kh,7c,6c,8d - .123This time I changed Wagoo's hand to be kings with an open ended straight draw. QueenBee was given a flush draw and inside striaght draw, while Bowski was left alone. I think this would be about worst case, two people drawing against us for the high.The way this hand played and the way the cards came I have a hard time putting anyone on a straight of flush draw in this hand. The only possible flush draws given everyones boards are diamonds or clubs. Anyone drawing to clubs has 5 dead outs showing, meaning their drawing to a 4 outer. Diamonds would know 4 of their outs are dead, 3 on current boards one folded on 3rd street. Add in the 2 we have in the hole, they'd be looking at a 3 outer. As far as straight draws go, Queen bee would have to be using both hole cards. 6/4 or 6/8 would be open enders with 3/4, A/3, or A/4 for gutshots. Well 2 of the 6's are dead as well as two of the A's, making any draw of his improbable. Either of his open enders would also only be drawing to 6 outs as 2 9's and 2 8's are dead. Bow would need to have a 7, with two of these already dead, also improbable. Even if he's got the 7, 4 of his 8 outs are dead anyway. Wagoo would need a 9 or 5, 2 of the fives are dead as well as 2 of the nines. So if he would have either he's drawing to at best a 6 outer, with the 9 its only a 5 outer as a 10 was folded on 3rd. With that analysis if any of them happened to back into a draw, were dodging at best a 6 outer.Bearing no straight of flush draws, no one is drawing to more than 4 outs to beat us. I would definetly bet aces up for value seeing how slim everyone is drawing to beat us. Its hard to figure out exact EV given the unknown cards but I'd say its somewhere around .4, or possibly better. Assuming no one folds to raises were putting in .25 of the pot and expecting to get back .4. Even if you take worst case senaro and put out EV at .3, we'd still make a profit over the long run.Just my thoughts on the hand. Let me know if I'm way off here. I've only been playing this game for maybe 3-4 months, ever since the big sites all got mixed game tables, and never at higher than 1/2. In high low games common practice is look for hands that can scoop the entire pot. But, from my experience, hands like these are where I make the most profit. Multi way pots where two people have stong hands in only one direction while two or three others are willing to call down with very weak holdings that also only go one way. I'm sure this will change as I move up levels but for lower limits I play high only hands very fast and loose. Everyone seems to get caught up chasing the low they forget about the high. So, if I'm in a 3 way pot with two players that look like their low or drawing low, I have no problem calling down or raising with hands I wouldn't even call with for a single bet in high only.

[Ricer98 0]

I think this is a bad place to check/raise unless you think queen bee is aggro enough to 3-bet, which i doubt, considering her board. The pot is too big for anyone here to fold to 1 bet probably. You want your check/raise to possibly thin out weak draws. Check raising for value is pretty marginal here. You probably have >25% equity...but not a ton more than that. I rather lead out, and have her raise...making the other two players having to call two.

I also have a bit of a problem with this comment. If QueenBee is a somewhat decient player she shouldn't be raising knowing she can only win half the pot. Given her board, if shes got a low, shes got the best low making a pull play a better option. Just calling "pulls" the others with inferior holdings into the pot because they only have to call one bet. While raising runs the risk of folding the table back around to the original bettor thus negating any 6th and 7th street action and basically choping the pot after 5th, minus of course the rake lost because the pot is larger than it was on 5th. Unless, or course some long shot draw were to hit on 7th. The only time I raise when I only have a shot at half the pot is when I'm last to act and think I have it pretty well locked up. Say first to act bets, 4 people call, I'm last to act with a very strong low, I go ahead and raise. Conversly, if I'm 2nd or 3rd to act with the same hand I just flat call pulling others in. So many times you see a 4 or 5 way pot turn into a heads up pot, because someone with a nut low and nut high decided to keep raising each other and drive everyone else out of the pot.

[Vman96 0]

I also have a bit of a problem with this comment. If QueenBee is a somewhat decient player she shouldn't be raising knowing she can only win half the pot. Given her board, if shes got a low, shes got the best low making a pull play a better option. Just calling "pulls" the others with inferior holdings into the pot because they only have to call one bet. While raising runs the risk of folding the table back around to the original bettor thus negating any 6th and 7th street action and basically choping the pot after 5th, minus of course the rake lost because the pot is larger than it was on 5th. Unless, or course some long shot draw were to hit on 7th. The only time I raise when I only have a shot at half the pot is when I'm last to act and think I have it pretty well locked up. Say first to act bets, 4 people call, I'm last to act with a very strong low, I go ahead and raise. Conversly, if I'm 2nd or 3rd to act with the same hand I just flat call pulling others in. So many times you see a 4 or 5 way pot turn into a heads up pot, because someone with a nut low and nut high decided to keep raising each other and drive everyone else out of the pot.

Youre right...I am wrong from a true equity perspective...we don't want them to fold to the bet and raise if their hands are worse than ours. But I know I am going to be frustrated when I lose this pot a third to half of the time 4-handed. And nice EV calcs...Aces up is doing better than I would have guessed here.