Daniel-something I Always Wondered About Pro Poker Players

[Memphis2417 0]

How do you guys handle medical costs (health insurance) and the like? Most people in the real world have companies that provide them with medical insurance. Is everything cash or do you just have some sort of deal worked out with a health insurance company? I mean, that stuff is expensive...

[Barack_Obama 0]

You are thinking of players in the US? In my country, Norway, the government takes care of everything for free, even if you are a murderer you will get everything for free for life.

[Memphis2417 0]

You are thinking of players in the US? In my country, Norway, the government takes care of everything for free, even if you are a murderer you will get everything for free for life.

yeah, we don't have that kind of thing in the U.S....unless DN is on medicare...?

[MoChipsPlese 0]

Daniel is Canadian. OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) is there for those Ontario residents in need. I am assuming he still resides in Toronto enough each year to keep this status.

[11 to 1 0]

You are thinking of players in the US? In my country, Norway, the government takes care of everything for free, even if you are a murderer you will get everything for free for life.

In the US, murderers also get free medical. Interesting concept, isn't it?

[Dafydd 0]

It's the same question as any person who is self-employed.If you start consistently winning enough to quit your day job (and assuming your wife or husband doesn't have medical insurance through her or his employer), then you can continue your old medical insurance under the COBRA program (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985) for, I think, eighteen months.Warning: This is more expensive than you may realize, because your company was paying a portion of your insurance; under COBRA, I think you pick up the entire tab... so it can be quite pricey.If you don't need this much insurance (especially if you're young), many companies such as Blue Cross/Blue Shield offer reasonably priced individual plans. Alternatively, some organizations that you can join sign up for some form of group coverage; but my experience with trying this for a writers' organization of 1,200 people was that, unless you can guarantee that a certain percentage of them will opt for the insurance, the "group policy" you get isn't much better than what you can get on your own, as an individual.For younger players, the best option might be to buy catastrophic care -- which is much cheaper than full care -- and use some of your poke to set up a medical savings account (MSA). The idea is that a huge percent of the insurance company's losses come from claims that are less than $5,000 (or somesuch amount). Thus, if they don't have to pay unless your claim is more than $5,000, they save enough money that the premium can be half or a third of what full coverage would be.But that means you're responsible for the first $5,000... so you set up an MSA with before-tax money in that amount. You get to keep any interest earned; and when you have medical expenses -- probably even including annual checkups -- you pay from the MSA. That way, you don't have to pay taxes on the money you earn that you spend on medical care (be sure to consult a lawyer or accountant -- I am neither! -- for the tax laws in your state).Whenever you have spare money, top up your MSA to keep it at $5,000 (or whatever amount you have selected). If you get into a bleary-eyed car wreck, after a five-day marathon tournament, and your medical and hospital expenses end up being $150,000... the first $5,000 comes from your MSA, and the catastrophic care insurance policy pays 80% or whatever of the rest. (Typically, if the expenses are even larger than that, catastrophic care pays 100% up to the maximum per patient/per lifetime payout, which is usually in the low millions).The numbers will vary, but they always follow a format similar to the above.I would guess this is the best option for a full-time player. The larger your MSA, the smaller your premium... but the more you have to pay out if you get hurt really bad.Dafydd

[MoChipsPlese 0]

It's the same question as any person who is self-employed.If you start consistently winning enough to quit your day job (and assuming your wife or husband doesn't have medical insurance through her or his employer), then you can continue your old medical insurance under the COBRA program (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985) for, I think, eighteen months.Warning: This is more expensive than you may realize, because your company was paying a portion of your insurance; under COBRA, I think you pick up the entire tab... so it can be quite pricey.If you don't need this much insurance (especially if you're young), many companies such as Blue Cross/Blue Shield offer reasonably priced individual plans. Alternatively, some organizations that you can join sign up for some form of group coverage; but my experience with trying this for a writers' organization of 1,200 people was that, unless you can guarantee that a certain percentage of them will opt for the insurance, the "group policy" you get isn't much better than what you can get on your own, as an individual.For younger players, the best option might be to buy catastrophic care -- which is much cheaper than full care -- and use some of your poke to set up a medical savings account (MSA). The idea is that a huge percent of the insurance company's losses come from claims that are less than $5,000 (or somesuch amount). Thus, if they don't have to pay unless your claim is more than $5,000, they save enough money that the premium can be half or a third of what full coverage would be.But that means you're responsible for the first $5,000... so you set up an MSA with before-tax money in that amount. You get to keep any interest earned; and when you have medical expenses -- probably even including annual checkups -- you pay from the MSA. That way, you don't have to pay taxes on the money you earn that you spend on medical care (be sure to consult a lawyer or accountant -- I am neither! -- for the tax laws in your state).Whenever you have spare money, top up your MSA to keep it at $5,000 (or whatever amount you have selected). If you get into a bleary-eyed car wreck, after a five-day marathon tournament, and your medical and hospital expenses end up being $150,000... the first $5,000 comes from your MSA, and the catastrophic care insurance policy pays 80% or whatever of the rest. (Typically, if the expenses are even larger than that, catastrophic care pays 100% up to the maximum per patient/per lifetime payout, which is usually in the low millions).The numbers will vary, but they always follow a format similar to the above.I would guess this is the best option for a full-time player. The larger your MSA, the smaller your premium... but the more you have to pay out if you get hurt really bad.Dafydd

No, He's Canadian. He doesn't pay a dime for health care unless he wants to. It's the Canadian way...... for now!

[PeterCrouch 0]

You are thinking of players in the US? In my country, Norway, the government takes care of everything for free, even if you are a murderer you will get everything for free for life.

With 75% percent of your paycheck going to the government through various taxes I would hardly call it "free". Or it is free if you dont contribute much to society, but for people who make a decent income the hospital-stay has already been paid for because of the sick tax system we got.

[weishan14 0]

Since he resides in the US and does not meet the residency requirements for Canada - he does not get the free coverage. He must carry some kind of health insurance on his own, if he wants it.

[gurrke 0]

You are thinking of players in the US? In my country, Norway, the government takes care of everything for free, even if you are a murderer you will get everything for free for life.

I think that's normal in european countrys....

[Guero 0]

How do you guys handle medical costs (health insurance) and the like? Most people in the real world have companies that provide them with medical insurance. Is everything cash or do you just have some sort of deal worked out with a health insurance company? I mean, that stuff is expensive...

Dude...you're an idiot. It's called standard medical insurance...blue shield, kaiser, etc. You don't HAVE to depend on your employer

[BWToth 0]

In the US, murderers also get free medical. Interesting concept, isn't it?

So murderers are guaranteed health care in the US, but not the single mother working three part-time jobs. Interesting concept isn't it?

[PeterCrouch 0]

So murderers are guaranteed health care in the US, but not the single mother working three part-time jobs. Interesting concept isn't it?

It is a difficult situation though. The government are responsible for the well-being of anyone in their care, and inmates are certainly in the care of the government. So even if this murderer is a piece of **** he can only be sentenced in a fair trial and according to the laws of the nation, and taking away medical assistance would be considered "cruel punishment". If you are in prison you have no opportunities to get a job or make money on your own, so you cant get medical insurance the way people on the outside can. It would be very cruel to let a person die from astma just because he happens to have a criminal record. I remember an "interresting" incident in California a few years back where a person on death row needed a heart transplant, and even if he actually was going to be killed by the government later on they had to pay for the very expensive operation in order to keep him alive so they could execute him later on. The sad part is that there is a limited supply (well I gueess it is a good thing that healthy hearts is in low supply though) of heart, but a long line of people who need a new heart. So in order to keep the inmate alive so he could be executed someone else died while waiting for a new heart. So yes, if you dont have medical insurance but a serious medical condition crime does pay.

[Balloon guy 158]

Why would someone his age need or want medical insurance. Waste of money. wait till:A. you have kidsB. you are over 40C. your wife is selling insurance and you want to be her first sale.otherwise, yound males in America are mostly not going to get sick enough to need insurance. And you also don't need life insurance until the 3 above reasons kick in.

[PeterCrouch 0]

"otherwise, yound males in America are mostly not going to get sick enough to need insurance. "Your house is very unlikely to burn down, but I still see having insurance in case it does as a good choice. Even the best pokerplayer should put away money for rent and normal expenses before he take his money to the casino, just in case something goes terribly wrong you are still in decent shape. I like gambling, but to gamle on your health just because you are most likely to not become very sick is just stupid.

[Erasa 0]

Why would someone his age need or want medical insurance. Waste of money. wait till:A. you have kidsB. you are over 40C. your wife is selling insurance and you want to be her first sale.otherwise, yound males in America are mostly not going to get sick enough to need insurance. And you also don't need life insurance until the 3 above reasons kick in.

Wow - dangerous piece of advice if you live in the US. You forgot to mention D, if despite B you should end up requiring medical insurance you usually cannot get it (at least not without being fleeced) because of "pre-existing condition". I would advise you to keep at least some health insurance and keep it current at all times; then it becomes a lot harder to deny care because of pre-existing. And because of HIPAA, if you have health insurance and a serious medical condition, you can keep your coverage even if you switch to a job where you are covered. Then they cannot deny you because of pre-existing.Unfortunately I know all too well first hand; I'm not even 40 yet but I got diagnosed with a rare form of cancer when I was 25 (over 10 years ago) - since I get a copy of the bills going to the insurance company I can tell you that I would have been out close to $500,000 at this point due to radiation, chemo theraphy and too many surgeries to count. Like you I never thought I would need it - I had been healthy as an oxe prior to my diagnosis; didn't live on top of a Superfund site and it just came out of the blue - much like somebody else mentioned; you don't think your house will burn to the ground but if it does and you don't carry insurance .....Sorry for getting all personal here, but this is a pet peeve of mine - if you can at all afford; never go without health insurance in the US.RegardsErasa

[scardwell 0]

Wow - dangerous piece of advice if you live in the US. You forgot to mention D, if despite B you should end up requiring medical insurance you usually cannot get it (at least not without being fleeced) because of "pre-existing condition". I would advise you to keep at least some health insurance and keep it current at all times; then it becomes a lot harder to deny care because of pre-existing. And because of HIPAA, if you have health insurance and a serious medical condition, you can keep your coverage even if you switch to a job where you are covered. Then they cannot deny you because of pre-existing.Unfortunately I know all too well first hand; I'm not even 40 yet but I got diagnosed with a rare form of cancer when I was 25 (over 10 years ago) - since I get a copy of the bills going to the insurance company I can tell you that I would have been out close to $500,000 at this point due to radiation, chemo theraphy and too many surgeries to count. Like you I never thought I would need it - I had been healthy as an oxe prior to my diagnosis; didn't live on top of a Superfund site and it just came out of the blue - much like somebody else mentioned; you don't think your house will burn to the ground but if it does and you don't carry insurance .....Sorry for getting all personal here, but this is a pet peeve of mine - if you can at all afford; never go without health insurance in the US.RegardsErasa

So damn true, like I can't say anything else because you just hit the nail on the head, if I lived in the states, this is one expense that I would never go tight pocketed on. You never know when you can get hurt. No one ever said anything about young kids playing sports too how many injuries would a kid have from playing a contact sport? I played quite a bit of sports when I was young and was hit extremely hurt but I was luckly to come out of it all with 1 injury a seperated shoulder.But I always saw my friends get concussions/broken limbs/bad bad cuts.

[delphi12 0]

Why would someone his age need or want medical insurance. Waste of money. wait till:A. you have kidsB. you are over 40C. your wife is selling insurance and you want to be her first sale.otherwise, yound males in America are mostly not going to get sick enough to need insurance. And you also don't need life insurance until the 3 above reasons kick in.

Well, I would say you only need life insurance if A. But, waiting till your 40 is ridiculous, as the price goes up every year. Hell, I got $1mil when I was 27 (right after my first child) and I only pay $700/year. If I got that now, it would be like $1200 or so. At 40, it might be $2000 or more.. Bad advice, I think.

[scardwell 0]

Well, I would say you only need life insurance if A. But, waiting till your 40 is ridiculous, as the price goes up every year. Hell, I got $1mil when I was 27 (right after my first child) and I only pay $700/year. If I got that now, it would be like $1200 or so. At 40, it might be $2000 or more.. Bad advice, I think.

medical insurance and life insurance are 2 different things last time I checked

[theresa113 0]

I use to work for a small company and I was their office manager (and purchaser, and sales consultant, and service manager when ours was out sick or in jail, etc. etc.). Anyway, we hired a company that handled our payroll, benefits and 401k. Even though we were small, we had great health insurance rates. The reason... because we were actually employed by the company we hired. They even used the cafeteria plan where our health care premiums were pre-taxed. This is the company we used: http://www.achcorp.com/index.htmAnyway, I am sure you can look on the internet for HR companies for small business. A small business can have as few as 1 employee. So, all you have to do is become self employed, create your company which is you and hire one o these companies. You will get great insurance rates and also the ability to invest in a 401K. And Balloon guy... I am not a fan of insurance but if I did not have it right now I would have had to pay over 10K for the injury I have right now and my treatments are still not over and I still may need surgery. Health insurance is extremely important, even for the healthy individual because unfortunately, things can happen when you least expect it.

[llou 0]

Why would someone his age need or want medical insurance. Waste of money. wait till:A. you have kidsB. you are over 40C. your wife is selling insurance and you want to be her first sale.otherwise, yound males in America are mostly not going to get sick enough to need insurance. And you also don't need life insurance until the 3 above reasons kick in.

Worst advice ever. I am in the health care industry. Plenty of people under the age of 40 have major medical expenses. Without insurance, they are ruined financially for life. Also, as a group, young males tend to have relatively high rates of injury as they engage in physical activity that raises their risk.Unfortunately, young adults tend to think they are invulnerable. They tend to think that those bad things that can happen only happen to "other people." But they forget that those "other people" are people just like them -- who also thought that it would never happen to them.

[Balloon guy 158]

Sorry guys, but health insurance makes its money from people that don't need it betting on getting sick.At the very most you might get some catastrophic policy. ( I know ISAspelling) I pay $600 a month for catastrophic care for my self and family, I pay the first $10K of bills, then the insurance kicks in. $600 a month. Tell me that's not a reslut of frivolous lawsuits, and rooked doctors.I do have a Health Savings Account, this is something EVERYONE should have because of the tax savings.Here's the secret to beat the system:Go to Mexico, get citizenship, then IF you get sick or injured, show the Mexican ID and you will get free health care. Try not to speak too good of the English.If you are a generaly unhealthy person, get the healthcareIf you are in good health, skip it. You know who you are.This changes with kids and age.The odds are greatly better that you remain healthy than get a really expensive problem. You just never hear from the people that don't get sick, they are too busy watching American Idol.If you do things that could cause injury and you get hurt, welcome to life 101. Don't act surprised if racing Motocross gets expensive when you don't hit the 3rd whoop just right. This is the only case of Darwinism I believe in.And life insurance before 40 is just plain stealing from gullible people. What does a 29 year single person need to have life insurance for? To support his parents? Or to pay off his car? If you use Life insurance as a savings plan than you have been duped. you can get so many better rates of return on such a long list of options. Talk to anyone that doesn't sell insurance to find out which is right for you.Health insurance has it's place. But it has gotten out of hand due to lawyers and until people get back to paying their own bills, we will have worse and worse problems with healthcare. The only way it can get worse is if the government comes in to fix it.Or vote for Hillary and I'll be paying for your healthcare. Enjoy the lines

[llou 0]

Sorry guys, but health insurance makes its money from people that don't need it betting on getting sick.At the very most you might get some catastrophic policy. ( I know ISAspelling) I pay $600 a month for catastrophic care for my self and family, I pay the first $10K of bills, then the insurance kicks in. $600 a month. Tell me that's not a reslut of frivolous lawsuits, and rooked doctors.I do have a Health Savings Account, this is something EVERYONE should have because of the tax savings.Here's the secret to beat the system:Go to Mexico, get citizenship, then IF you get sick or injured, show the Mexican ID and you will get free health care. Try not to speak too good of the English.If you are a generaly unhealthy person, get the healthcareIf you are in good health, skip it. You know who you are.This changes with kids and age.The odds are greatly better that you remain healthy than get a really expensive problem. You just never hear from the people that don't get sick, they are too busy watching American Idol.If you do things that could cause injury and you get hurt, welcome to life 101. Don't act surprised if racing Motocross gets expensive when you don't hit the 3rd whoop just right. This is the only case of Darwinism I believe in.And life insurance before 40 is just plain stealing from gullible people. What does a 29 year single person need to have life insurance for? To support his parents? Or to pay off his car? If you use Life insurance as a savings plan than you have been duped. you can get so many better rates of return on such a long list of options. Talk to anyone that doesn't sell insurance to find out which is right for you.Health insurance has it's place. But it has gotten out of hand due to lawyers and until people get back to paying their own bills, we will have worse and worse problems with healthcare. The only way it can get worse is if the government comes in to fix it.Or vote for Hillary and I'll be paying for your healthcare. Enjoy the lines

Ahhhh.... So you DO have health insurance. You have a catastrophic policy. That's VERY different than not having/recommending any at all. Yes, it's true that not everyone needs a policy that covers day-to-day routine expenses. Some people can get by with coverage for major medical expenses only -- but that's not the same thing as not having any coverage.Also ... of course the whole insurance industry is based on the concept of shared risk. The lucky ones who never use the benefits help pay the expenses of those who do. That's the whole idea. We customers share the risk and pool our resources so that the unlucky "few" don't get destroyed by an unexpected catastrophe. We pay for the safety net the policy provides us even if we never use it.Yes, I agree that the whole health insurance industry is a mess ... and it's all very complicated ... and no one knows how to fix it so that it is perfect. But that doesn't change the fact that having some coverage to prevent your financial ruin should you turn out to be one of the unlucky ones is a good idea. Young people reading these threads need to investigate the various kinds of coverage available and make a choice that is appropriate for their situation. For the vase majority of those people, a health insurance policy of some kind is a good choice. A single hospitalization can cost tens of thousands of dollars -- and a long-term illness or injury can easily reach a few hundred thousand. Not many people in their 20's and 30's have that kind of cash on hand.As you and others have said, life insurance is an entirely different issue. Life insurance is designed to provide money to your heirs in case you die. If you have no one but yourself depending on your income, then life insurance is usually not necessary. As a single person with no children, I don't carry any life insurance (expept the small automatic policy provided by my employer at no extra cost to me) because no one but me is dependent upon my income.

[delphi12 0]

And life insurance before 40 is just plain stealing from gullible people. What does a 29 year single person need to have life insurance for? To support his parents? Or to pay off his car? If you use Life insurance as a savings plan than you have been duped. you can get so many better rates of return on such a long list of options. Talk to anyone that doesn't sell insurance to find out which is right for you.

Huh?? To support my parents? Uhh no.. To give at least 10 years of my income to my wife and kids in case I die. I have a $600k mortgage, car payments, bills, etc. If I die, I want to make sure my wife doesn't have to immediately move - thats what life insurance is for. Perhaps you don't understand the true meaning of it. In 30 years (the length of my policy) I will have paid like $21k. I will be 57 then - almost retired (probably already will be - we'll see). No way, I do I have a mil in the bank now (unless we sell our house which has that much equity) - does any of this make sense? The policy only gets worse the older you are. But to each his own. I'll believe what I did is right, and you can believe what you did is right. Perhaps both methods are right - like so many things in life - it depends on the situation.

[KVOM 0]

The post on a catastropic policy along with a HSA was pretty good advice if you can afford a high deductible.I am retired, but not old enough for Medicare and have a wife and 2 school-age children. I went shopping for this type of policy. In order to open a HSA, you must have a high-deductible policy that is "HSA-qualified". The maximum you can contribute tax-free to your HSA per year is the amount of the deductible, and the maximum deductible that can qualify is about $11K.So I pay $300/month for the 4 of us and contribute the $11K to the HSA, from which I pay the premiums, plus any healthcare costs we incur. The tax deduction for the HSA contribution helps offset the cost of the insurance.