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[bull62 0]

oh hai dercombo of 10, 25, and 50nl btw

Geez. Win some showdowns and you'll be a brazillionair.

[Jujoki3 0]

can someone explain to me the difference between the blue and green line? I would think the green line would be above the blue one because total winnings = showdown winnings + $$$ you win when you take it down without showdown, or am i stupid?

[chgocubs99 0]

Depends what you're expecting. People think it's a "luckmeter" that tells you if you're running good or running bad. The purpose of it is to analyse your game and see where you are making and losing money.It is extremely underutilised because most never bother to figure out how to use it. They just load the hands, say "look how bad I run", then close it until they run bad again.When used properly it can tell you exactly where your leaks are - something that no other program can.Does Prima show mucked hands at showdown in the HHs now?

Could you elaborate on just how to do this?Would this differ from 6 max to heads up?

[TB17 0]

Geez. Win some showdowns and you'll be a brazillionair.

It's a cake glitch that I just confirmed.

[simo_8ball 0]

I really don't think it's possible for any 6-max player to have the green line above the blue line for a long period of time. It's basically impossible because there are so many hands where you miss the flop yet still have to c-bet and might get snapped. I'd like to see somebody who plays 6-max exclusively have a graph where their green line and blue/red lines are close to each other.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?p=22627I think Fabian plays pretty much exclusively 6max, not sure about the others.

[RDog 0]

This is an obvious statement, but you're losing money in non showdown pots.Over a small sample it wouldn't be significant, but getting up to 60k hands means there's probably a leak somewhere. Maybe something about your game that has changed from when you were winning regularly. There aren't many big winning players who lose money in non showdown pots (that I have seen, anyway). Some lose small amounts, others make a lot.Try loading up ~60k hands from when you were winning alongside this sample and then use the filters to see if there's anything different. Specifically, I'd suggest looking at one pair hands on the flop.

This part isn't true. Everyone's goal is to get the green above the blue but I haven't seen many that have achieved it. I have done it in spurts. For a long time I was really concerned that I didn't consistently do well in non-showdown pots. Then I started thinking about it and I will give a hand as an example:* HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to rdog7811 [Td Ad]Scirrocco_87: folds GruvMachine: folds DorraMan has timed outDorraMan: folds DorraMan is sitting outgilde96: calls $1rdog7811: raises $8 to $10gilde96: calls $8*** FLOP *** [Ts 3d Ks]gilde96: checks DorraMan has returnedrdog7811: bets $12gilde96: calls $12*** TURN *** [Ts 3d Ks] [3c]gilde96: checks rdog7811: checks *** RIVER *** [Ts 3d Ks 3c] [8s]gilde96: bets $10rdog7811: calls $10*** SHOW DOWN ***gilde96: shows [As 4h] (a pair of Threes)rdog7811: shows [Td Ad] (two pair, Tens and Threes)Sorry, just some random hand I found. Here I have a decent showdown hand but not a hand I want to play a big pot with. I could easily bet the turn and you know what, my stats in non-showdown pots would be better. By checking the turn, I induce a bluff on the river from a worse hand that never calls a turn bet. In the end our goal isn't to make sure our graphs look pretty and impress everyone with how great we are in non-showdown pots. Our goal is to play every hand to its maximum EV.I can't get my entire year because the number of hands crash Poker EV but here are my last 2 months. This is why I completely disagree that big winners make money in non-showdown pots. Just in the last 2 months my winrate at 1/2 is 4.13 PTBB/100. I don't think I have had a month playing cash where my green was above my blue and I have been a very consistent decent size winner for the past 8 months.

[bull62 0]

can someone explain to me the difference between the blue and green line? I would think the green line would be above the blue one because total winnings = showdown winnings + $$$ you win when you take it down without showdown, or am i stupid?

Green line includes all the hands you fold.

[zimmer4141 0]

can someone explain to me the difference between the blue and green line? I would think the green line would be above the blue one because total winnings = showdown winnings + $$$ you win when you take it down without showdown, or am i stupid?

In most cases, money in non-showdown pots is negative. I don't know how the hell Fabian plays, but it seems damn near impossible to put up results like he had over a real long sample.

[GrinderMJ 0]

While we're all asking each other questions, how much are you guys clearing in rakeback/fpps etc. per month woudl you guess?

[zimmer4141 0]

Like RDog was saying, green above blue doesn't always mean you're doing better.Think about it like this:River situation where you have TPTK, nitty player fires third barrel of $70 on river. For the sake of this example, assume you're beat 100% of the time.You call: Lose $70 more than folding, Green line for the hand equals blue line for the hand.You fold: Lose $70 less than calling, Green line is below blue line by however much you put into the pot at that point.

[zimmer4141 0]

While we're all asking each other questions, how much are you guys clearing in rakeback/fpps etc. per month woudl you guess?

If I put in 40k hands, I can usually make around $1k-1200 in rakeback from FTP, plus probably $100-200 in points and IronMan Medals.

[Jordan 1]

i dont give a f where my green line is compared to blue/red or w/e. i realize a lot of it has to do w/ style and type of game u play and type of opponents you play. i also realize that it doesn't take into effect coolers and stuff like that either, yada yada..that being said, i've used it to help me fix some leaks ive seen in my game...but more than anything i dont use it that much. i worry about my winrate and how im playing on a day to day basis and chit. maybe hu poker is just a lot diff, but there are so many variables.one thing ill say about my hu game, is that i could go to sd a little bit more often of a time...but i figure maybe reason it's a bit lower as a result of my style...idk. but w/e. it's a nice tool to have, and it can help...but there is a lot to be learned from simply analyzing your game thru talking w/ friends, making vids of yourself playing and studying it and having others help you and stuff..as opposed to using a program.and i agree way too many ppl use it to show how 'bad they run' and it's so annoying cuz i swear 90% of these ppl sound miserable and like use justification as running bad in poker to act in such a way. it annoys me and is prob a big reason why i hate looking at my net run lines and stuff. i just try to focus on making best decision on any given hand. so many break even donks think they can justify their suckiness by running below equity (although i have seen some really sick all in graphs that make my head asplode) but those are really rare imo.- Jordan

[bull62 0]

While we're all asking each other questions, how much are you guys clearing in rakeback/fpps etc. per month woudl you guess?

Should hit almost $400 this month at 10NL. Rakeback is da shiznit.

[RDog 0]

While we're all asking each other questions, how much are you guys clearing in rakeback/fpps etc. per month woudl you guess?

For me its probably around 2k a month (probably a tad more) between the Concierge service and tourney buy ins. I play a lot of hands though (and was Supernova coming into the year).

[Jordan 1]

While we're all asking each other questions, how much are you guys clearing in rakeback/fpps etc. per month woudl you guess?

i get 30% at prima and 25% at ftp.normally 250-1k (1k is really rare, when i was playing 20-40k a month it was usually 600-700ish) a month depending on how many hands i play.- Jordan

[simo_8ball 0]

This part isn't true. Everyone's goal is to get the green above the blue but I haven't seen many that have achieved it. I have done it in spurts.

Sorry, that was rushed typing. I was meaning there aren't many big winners that lose a lot of money in non showdown pots. Many/most of them lose a little (like you do) where the blue slowly moves away from the green, and some have green>blue. Pretty much every losing player will lose a ton w/o SD though.

[TB17 0]

Today went pretty ****ing awesome imoHowever there was one hand where I did get owned pretty brutal.http://www.pokerhand.org/?2502325It doesn't show the chat. But basically when I bet 50, he shoved and said ty before I could call, and I shoulda folded out of pure spite but I just couldn't. It was such a brutal turn bet since I beat absolutely nothing but well, not sure what I was thinking. Pretty much felt invincible most of the day I thought it was just another spewjob. Everything else was just coolers that went my way. Oh well ship it

[Jordan 1]

simo, prima does show hands at showdown, but i think only on eurolinx.i should also mention my approach to my basic hu poker varies from ftp/eurolinx. the player base is very different and you have to adjust accordingly.it's a generalization to make about euro vs american, but it stands true...and obvio once the match gets going you have to adjust, but generally euro's are nuts and slightly more difficult to steal from, etc etc. and love showing down hands, calling 4bets oop 100 or less bb deep, and other stupid chitl ike that. i guess im just saying, i love euro's.- Jordan

[simo_8ball 0]

Could you elaborate on just how to do this?Would this differ from 6 max to heads up?

It's difficult to explain in one post.Essentially you want to look through the filters and see what areas of your game need work. Do you make money with flush draws? With straight draws? Do you make money when calling raises in position? Do you make money with suited connectors? How much do you make/lose calling from the SB? It's endless how many things you can analyse, and you can go into any depth you like. How well do you play when you raise suited connectors on the button and flop second pair on a 3-flush board?It can be deceptive - if you filter for hands you flopped a weak pair you're going to have lost money, and if you filter for hands you flopped TPTK+ you're going to make money. But, if you're losing a fair amount of money with small pairs or something, it's likely you aren't playing those hands well.Seeing where you make and lose money like this allows you to isolate problem parts of your game in a way that isn't possible with PT.

[bull62 0]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?p=22627I think Fabian plays pretty much exclusively 6max, not sure about the others.

I wouldn't think Kotkis or Fabian's graphs are really representative of the typical winning player. They do show what is possible though.

[simo_8ball 0]

simo, prima does show hands at showdown, but i think only on eurolinx.

In that case, check the "use all" button on the databases tab of pokerev. That will then allow you to load the Prima hands.I can't guarantee it will be accurate, but it should be somewhere near. If there are some problems, I assume it will show you running worse than you actually are and will show you doing better in non SD pots than you are.

[Jordan 1]

god mode

[bull62 0]

and i agree way too many ppl use it to show how 'bad they run' and it's so annoying cuz i swear 90% of these ppl sound miserable and like use justification as running bad in poker to act in such a way. - Jordan

I agree with this 100% and was guilty of it until recently. That being said, I think I get coolered more than any other player ever.

[Jordan 1]

i cant help ppl play brain dead!

[cubsfan44 0]

since my hard drive crashed