RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'll try 3betting it more as a default. I was working off this idea that 3betting the high end of my range was a waste verse a guy that folds to 80%+ of 3bets, b/c 80% of the time I am only picking up his open and the blinds.... but 7bb is 3x my average profit w/ AK. hmmmmmYou need to remember though, when you 3 bet, it doesn't just go into the guys database that you 3 bet, it goes in to the entire tables. You need to shake your nit image. Orrrrrrrr start playing off your nit image in the other direction. Also I flat AA and KK much more than I flat AK. So when you want to flat the high end I recommend made hands. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 congrats mike on having the babypretty sure it hasnt been had. Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You need to remember though, when you 3 bet, it doesn't just go into the guys database that you 3 bet, it goes in to the entire tables. You need to shake your nit image. Orrrrrrrr start playing off your nit image in the other direction. Also I flat AA and KK much more than I flat AK. So when you want to flat the high end I recommend made hands.I'm 3betting AK 87% of the time. I'm only 3betting 5.5 overall. Link to post Share on other sites
BSmitty23 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dear Full Tilt,Even though you tried hard, I bent but didnt break. Enjoy the extra rake money. The beginning of the graph is all $100, then around hand 517 I went to $50 and won like 16 buyins in 300 hands, the rest is all $100. So ya, god mode was on obv. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm 3betting AK 87% of the time. I'm only 3betting 5.5 overall.Oh, your 3 bet % isn't that low. Mine is around the same actually. I would look elsewhere for leaks other than dissecting AK. Pretty hard to really screw up your big hands too much. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 pretty sure it hasnt been had.sigh. well congrats on it being a boy then?for some reason i thought i read it had been. oh well. i'll just quote my post in a few months Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How many bb are you averaging when 3bet = true. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 congrats mike on having the babyYou read good. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How many bb are you averaging when 3bet = true.4.2 Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 As soon as I get all 6 tables up and going AP crashes on me. Sigh.On a brighter note, I just had my first conversation with VIP support and they were wonderful. Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 filtering by preflop actions my average profit is the following, b/c that is the most straight forward stat analysis. 3bet = 3 bb4bet = 7.3sqeeze = 5cold call = .39Calling 3bets losing .50If you are winning a full bb more per 3bet hand, that could be an area for me to look at in addition to calling 3bets. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 All of Jordan's talk about binking two outers made me wanna try it...Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BB): $123.05BTN/SB: $22.60Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with T T :heart:BTN/SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2.50, BTN/SB calls $2Flop: ($5.00) 8 4 2 (2 players)Hero bets $3.50, BTN/SB calls $3.50Turn: ($12.00) 4 (2 players)Hero bets $8, BTN/SB raises to $16.60 all in, Hero calls $8.60River: ($45.20) T (2 players - 1 is all in)Final Pot: $45.20Hero shows T T (a full house, Tens full of Fours)BTN/SB shows J 4 (three of a kind, Fours)Hero wins $44.70(Rake: $0.50) Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 filtering by preflop actions my average profit is the following, b/c that is the most straight forward stat analysis. 3bet = 3 bb4bet = 7.3sqeeze = 5cold call = .39Calling 3bets losing .50If you are winning a full bb more per 3bet hand, that could be an area for me to look at in addition to calling 3bets.3 bet = 4.24 bet = 4.6Squeeze = 9.8Cold Call = .34Calling 3 bets = 1.5I flat a lot of 3 bets with AA and KK and I tend to play 3 bet pots pretty passively in position.My guess is that your issues are more post flop related. Also, try increasing your steal percentage. I'm guessing it isn't as high as it should be. Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 3 bet = 4.24 bet = 4.6Squeeze = 9.8Cold Call = .34Calling 3 bets = 1.5I flat a lot of 3 bets with AA and KK and I tend to play 3 bet pots pretty passively in position.My guess is that your issues are more post flop related. Also, try increasing your steal percentage. I'm guessing it isn't as high as it should be.Yeah, it is for sure post flop and looks like most likely in 3bet pots. When you say you play passively from position is this both as the 3better and calling in pos. By passive I believe you mean you are more incline to go to showdown or give up than push a thin vb or bluff, yes?My steal pct is 31.7 and fold to 3bet is 62.9. Link to post Share on other sites
KHSPoker21 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dear Full Tilt,Even though you tried hard, I bent but didnt break. Enjoy the extra rake money. The beginning of the graph is all $100, then around hand 517 I went to $50 and won like 16 buyins in 300 hands, the rest is all $100. So ya, god mode was on obv. holy shit Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Grazie for taking the time on this by the way. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 All of Jordan's talk about binking two outers made me wanna try it...Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BB): $123.05BTN/SB: $22.60Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with T T :heart:BTN/SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2.50, BTN/SB calls $2Flop: ($5.00) 8 4 2 (2 players)Hero bets $3.50, BTN/SB calls $3.50Turn: ($12.00) 4 (2 players)Hero bets $8, BTN/SB raises to $16.60 all in, Hero calls $8.60River: ($45.20) T (2 players - 1 is all in)Final Pot: $45.20Hero shows T T (a full house, Tens full of Fours)BTN/SB shows J 4 (three of a kind, Fours)Hero wins $44.70(Rake: $0.50)But what dance did you do?I did the dance from Old School after "Frank the Tank" does a beer bong. So awesome lol. I don't know why I got so excited. I normally don't do much, maybe for the sheer fact I hit a 2 outer and the day been so lol it just came out. Anyways, it was super awesome and I wish I had it on video.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah, it is for sure post flop and looks like most likely in 3bet pots. When you say you play passively from position is this both as the 3better and calling in pos. By passive I believe you mean you are more incline to go to showdown or give up than push a thin vb or bluff, yes?My steal pct is 31.7 and fold to 3bet is 62.9.That should definitely be over 35 for someone that has a decent amount of experience. By passive I mean, if I flat AA in position to a 3 bet and he bets the flop, I almost never raise. If he checks the turn, most of the time I check back. Since I am floating and slightly overbet jamming the river as a bluff a decent amount I can do it for thin value too. Basically I just don't let much worry me about the board texture (unless it gets really ugly), panic and stick my money in too soon. Thus letting him off the hook for being a 3 bet monkey. I think I really make 3 bet monkeys pay for 3 betting me. Sure I might fold 5 straight times OOP to some monkeys 3 bet for him to win 4 BB's at a time but once the pot gets big they have a hard time giving it up and I get paid. Link to post Share on other sites
BSmitty23 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 holy shitThats what happens when you have two guys running 70/20 and hitting every hand for an hour. Then reality comes back into play. Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 That should definitely be over 35 for someone that has a decent amount of experience. By passive I mean, if I flat AA in position to a 3 bet and he bets the flop, I almost never raise. If he checks the turn, most of the time I check back. Since I am floating and slightly overbet jamming the river as a bluff a decent amount I can do it for thin value too. Basically I just don't let much worry me about the board texture (unless it gets really ugly), panic and stick my money in too soon. Thus letting him off the hook for being a 3 bet monkey. I think I really make 3 bet monkeys pay for 3 betting me. Sure I might fold 5 straight times OOP to some monkeys 3 bet for him to win 4 BB's at a time but once the pot gets big they have a hard time giving it up and I get paid.I was playing around with a 35% steal range and came up with this. "22+,A2s+,K5s+,Q9s+,J8s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,54s,43s,32s,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,J9o+,T9o" I'll try to pay more attention to steal opportunities folded to me in CO and BTN. How often are you chk/folding after 3betting out of position. I tend to chk fold on bad flops against regs. i.e. low draw heave connected boards, etc.I'm cbetting 80% when 3bet = true. vs 70% 3bet overall. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was playing around with a 35% steal range and came up with this. "22+,A2s+,K5s+,Q9s+,J8s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,54s,43s,32s,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,J9o+,T9o" I'll try to pay more attention to steal opportunities folded to me in CO and BTN. How often are you chk/folding after 3betting out of position. I tend to chk fold on bad flops against regs. i.e. low draw heave connected boards, etc.I'm cbetting 80% when 3bet = true. vs 70% 3bet overall.I would probably lay off the reallllllly low suited connectors and add more one gappers in the tier higher and more unsuited K's, Q's, J's. But yeah basically. My CBet % in 3 bet pots is definitely much higher than my regular CBet % (my normal is like 55%). When you don't 3 bet a ton like myself I think I tend to get bluff raised/floated a lot less than most people so I do C/F sometimes but not a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 But what dance did you do?I did the dance from Old School after "Frank the Tank" does a beer bong. So awesome lol. I don't know why I got so excited. I normally don't do much, maybe for the sheer fact I hit a 2 outer and the day been so lol it just came out. Anyways, it was super awesome and I wish I had it on video.- JordanI went streaking. Through the Quad and into the gymnasium.Bring your green hat! Link to post Share on other sites
ChicagoMike22 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I would probably lay off the reallllllly low suited connectors and add more one gappers in the tier higher and more unsuited K's, Q's, J's. But yeah basically. My CBet % in 3 bet pots is definitely much higher than my regular CBet % (my normal is like 55%). When you don't 3 bet a ton like myself I think I tend to get bluff raised/floated a lot less than most people so I do C/F sometimes but not a lot.What are you doing to counter your low cbet percentage. i.e. you can't be chk/folding 45% of the time. Are you chk/calling something along the lines of ace high? I don't feel comfortable chk/calling oop outside of trapping with a hand. I feel its spew when I then have to chk/fold the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 What are you doing to counter your low cbet percentage. i.e. you can't be chk/folding 45% of the time. Are you chk/calling something along the lines of ace high? I don't feel comfortable chk/calling oop outside of trapping with a hand. I feel its spew when I then have to chk/fold the turn.My CBet % OOP is MUCH higher than IP. And yeah, against some people I am C/C occasionally with Ace high. And sometimes I am C/C turn with Ace high. My hand might be face up but I still don't think most people are good enough to value bet 3rd pair 3 streets or whatever. I have also started working a couple other things into my game too to combat those that think me checking immediately means Ace high and they can fire at will. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ima get another 3/6 match vs i win flips should be fun gonna 4 table.if u wanna rail it's all good just dont be annoying in chat. he and i are cool just doing this for fun since we both like playing regs Link to post Share on other sites
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