zimmer4141 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hey my Oregon Ducks went to Ann Arbor for a game last season... did you watch that game Zimmer? Sry, couldnt resist.Indeed I did. Even though you guys killed us, it wasn't nearly as bad as the week before that (F*cking Appalachian State) Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedKills 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I was just at some ridiculously huge wine warehouse place in Chicago THAT HAD SAMPLES OF THE WINE JUST LIKE COSTCO HAS FOOD SAMPLES!! It was awesome.MarkYea. Not sure which one but a lot of the places do that usually on saturday mornings. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks. #4 makes the most sense to me for sure.With #1, are you saying then that raising on the flop with a set is OK because my opponent would assume I was doing this with a draw and thus call? Or that we're fine with only making a little when we raise and they fold? Both?Maybe this is where the level we're playing at affects these decisions, because at smaller stakes I will more than likely be ripping the hook out of the fish's mouth with a 3x times raise on the flop with a set (assuming of course that i don't KNOW he has an overpair, obv if I did I know, then I know he'll come along ala your #4 point). Because I think at the microstakes, players are still entrenched in the "I raised PF so I must CB" and thus are often C-betting with air. If I flat the flop bet, then I keep them in with the chance they'll CB again with AQs (or even better, hit a pair and bet it on the turn), rather than lose them and their additional bets when I do hit a rare beauty flop like this and raise it up right away.Most overpairs in that spot are 3 betting or shoving when they get raised on a flop like that. And the reason is to protect and get value from draws. The amount of times when you raise and they fold will more than offset the amount of times you raise and they don't fold and you get their entire stack as opposed to hoping they double barrell air and hit one of their 6 outs. I don't think C-Betting is done more at the lower levels honestly. I think everyone C-Bets way too much. Or think about hearts, most heart draws are stacking off on the flop. If you wait until the river they are only putting their money in if they hit. For the most part I think you are overestimating: People's ability to fold.Number of times you are getting extra value from people double barreling here.How much extra value you get from trying to slow play and have people hit a hand they are willing to put a lot of money in with that you beat.In general, the extra value you get from his range of hands is going to be much more by raising the flop and getting him to stack off with a pretty wide range as opposed to waiting until the river. On this board there are sooooooooo many scare cards that can come. In this particular hand, give Villain a set and give Bull KK and start thinking about turn cards. All aces....action killer. All hearts......action killer. 9's......probably an action killer. 7's probably slow Bull down a little. Give Bull JJ (of which he is stacking off the flop) and think of how many more action killers there are. Bull is at the TOP of his range and there are still a bunch of cards that will prevent the set from getting his entire stack. And that is ONLY on the turn. Once the turn card rolls out, if it isn't an action killer there is almost no card that won't make the board even uglier for the river. Give Villain 88 here, make the turn the same and make the river a 6, making only a 7 needed for straight and now think how Bull plays the river. Raising flops like this with sets is by far the most optimal line 99% of the time and it isn't even close. Probably one of the best pieces of advice anyone can ever give you: Play your big hands fast on drawy boards. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you like wine you should do a wine tour. In Oregon we have tons of wineries, like every 3-4 miles so there are companies that will get a small bus (no, not the short bus) and a driver and you can go from winery to winery drinking. Its about $20 per person for the bus and driver and each wine stop costs about $5 and you usually get at least 3 glasses of wine. By the 2nd stop your feeling good if you actually finish all the wine they give you.Good no drinking and driving too.*nod* I've done Napa and Sonoma a bunch. Big fan of the wine touring I've never made it up to Oregon or Washington though (for wine at least). We'll have to hit some next time we travel up that way. BTW Bandon Dunes is one of my favorite places I've visited. Just gorgeous.Was it Sam's?Edit: If you were at Chris's, going off bad memory of where he lives, that's probably most likely.I believe so. It was like Costco (in size and sampling!) but for wine. I loved it.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Napa_Don 688 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 *nod* I've done Napa and Sonoma a bunch. Big fan of the wine touring I've never made it up to Oregon or Washington though (for wine at least). We'll have to hit some next time we travel up that way. BTW Bandon Dunes is one of my favorite places I've visited. Just gorgeous.I believe so. It was like Costco (in size and sampling!) but for wine. I loved it.MarkYOU TOLD ME I WAS THE ONLY YOU BITCH! Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 YOU TOLD ME I WAS THE ONLY YOU BITCH!You were better if that makes it ok?Mark Link to post Share on other sites
mhoward29 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Indeed I did. Even though you guys killed us, it wasn't nearly as bad as the week before that (F*cking Appalachian State)Ya that was the shocker of the season for sure. imo give Rodriguez 3-4 years and he will have your team cruising with a new offense. Michigan has awesome recruiting power, should be easy to get players. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Get out of my way, January! Link to post Share on other sites
mhoward29 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 *nod* I've done Napa and Sonoma a bunch. Big fan of the wine touring I've never made it up to Oregon or Washington though (for wine at least). We'll have to hit some next time we travel up that way. BTW Bandon Dunes is one of my favorite places I've visited. Just gorgeous.I believe so. It was like Costco (in size and sampling!) but for wine. I loved it.MarkI grew up about 30 miles from there inland. My great uncle has a standing 7am tee time at that golf course. Best golf course in the northwest imo, but super windy. Its a challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 People I hate:[ ] NOSUP4U[ ] King 1305[ ] Tremomey[X] Acid Knight Link to post Share on other sites
Potsie P 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Most overpairs in that spot are 3 betting or shoving when they get raised on a flop like that. And the reason is to protect and get value from draws. The amount of times when you raise and they fold will more than offset the amount of times you raise and they don't fold and you get their entire stack as opposed to hoping they double barrell air and hit one of their 6 outs. I don't think C-Betting is done more at the lower levels honestly. I think everyone C-Bets way too much. Or think about hearts, most heart draws are stacking off on the flop. If you wait until the river they are only putting their money in if they hit. For the most part I think you are overestimating: People's ability to fold.Number of times you are getting extra value from people double barreling here.How much extra value you get from trying to slow play and have people hit a hand they are willing to put a lot of money in with that you beat.In general, the extra value you get from his range of hands is going to be much more by raising the flop and getting him to stack off with a pretty wide range as opposed to waiting until the river. On this board there are sooooooooo many scare cards that can come. In this particular hand, give Villain a set and give Bull KK and start thinking about turn cards. All aces....action killer. All hearts......action killer. 9's......probably an action killer. 7's probably slow Bull down a little. Give Bull JJ (of which he is stacking off the flop) and think of how many more action killers there are. Bull is at the TOP of his range and there are still a bunch of cards that will prevent the set from getting his entire stack. And that is ONLY on the turn. Once the turn card rolls out, if it isn't an action killer there is almost no card that won't make the board even uglier for the river. Give Villain 88 here, make the turn the same and make the river a 6, making only a 7 needed for straight and now think how Bull plays the river. Raising flops like this with sets is by far the most optimal line 99% of the time and it isn't even close. Probably one of the best pieces of advice anyone can ever give you: Play your big hands fast on drawy boards.Thanks man. I do try to mix up how I play big hands based on what my reputation is at the table, but I probably err way too much on the slowplay approach overall. I think in this particular case, assuming I had trips on the flop, I didn't view the flop as really scary...but looking back, if straight and flush possibilities AREN'T scary then what is? Anyway, good stuff for me to think about and incorporate, so I appreciate you taking the time to 'splain. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks man. I do try to mix up how I play big hands based on what my reputation is at the table, but I probably err way too much on the slowplay approach overall. I think in this particular case, assuming I had trips on the flop, I didn't view the flop as really scary...but looking back, if straight and flush possibilities AREN'T scary then what is? Anyway, good stuff for me to think about and incorporate, so I appreciate you taking the time to 'splain.The thing is, especially at the lower levels you don't need to mix it up. You don't need to worry about balance. Play every hand as profitably as you can cause most likely your opponent has no clue how you played hands previously. Link to post Share on other sites
The Lobster 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 For all the AZ folks in here, DD&D went to this place in Gilbert and I have gone a couple times since and it is totally awesome - http://www.joesfarmgrill.com/They grow as many items that they serve that they can, so everything is super fresh, and you can go walk around their little farm and check stuff out. Maybe the best chocolate shake and onion rings I have ever had, and the burgers are superb too. Poker content: F poker, I need a break and am not playing again until Monday. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hooray for rungood. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Dear Challenge Thread:I know it has been a while since I have posted a winning hand/graph, but fear not. It is only a matter of a few days and I will be crushing the shit out of not only January, but 2009 too.Thank you for both your concern and support during this trying time.Sincerely,Sean Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 This post is long but read and enjoy please. I've never had a day of poker like I had today: I'm not converting the hands so I can include them all in one post.. here is the rundown:[x] Get sucked out big on and he insta leaves.. comes back and has this conversation with me before sitting back in and losing it all backDealt to TreMomey [Ah Ac]poontang5 calls $1TreMomey raises to $8poontang5 calls $6*** FLOP *** [Jc 8s As]TreMomey bets $10poontang5 raises to $30TreMomey calls $20*** TURN *** [Jc 8s As] [6s]TreMomey checkspoontang5 bets $79.10, and is all inTreMomey calls $79.10poontang5 shows [Js 8c]TreMomey shows [Ah Ac]*** RIVER *** [Jc 8s As 6s] [2s]poontang5 shows a flush, Ace highTreMomey shows three of a kind, Acespoontang5 wins the pot ($233.70) with a flush, Ace highpoontang5 (Observer): sorry u r a very good player with alot of cash to chance i got very luckypoontang5 (Observer): will u fogive mepoontang5: did u read thatTreMomey: just did nowpoontang5: r u madTreMomey: i don't get madpoontang5: iknow u get evenTreMomey: nah, its whatever manpoontang5: your better then meDealer: poontang5 has returnedAbout 20 hands later...Dealt to TreMomey [Ks Kc]poontang5 calls $1TreMomey raises to $10poontang5 calls $8*** FLOP *** [Qc Jh 5d]TreMomey bets $16poontang5 calls $16*** TURN *** [Qc Jh 5d] [9c]TreMomey bets $48poontang5 raises to $141.50, and is all inTreMomey calls $93.50poontang5 shows [8s Qd]TreMomey shows [Ks Kc]*** RIVER *** [Qc Jh 5d 9c] [5h]poontang5 shows two pair, Queens and FivesTreMomey shows two pair, Kings and FivesTreMomey wins the pot ($334.50) with two pair, Kings and Fives[x] 6 bet shove AJo for 180bb for value and lose a 360bb pot against a frenchmen's K9Seat 1: TreMomey ($360.30)Seat 2: gammer40 ($427.40)TreMomey posts the small blind of $1gammer40 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to TreMomey [Js Ac]TreMomey raises to $4gammer40 raises to $10TreMomey raises to $30gammer40 has 15 seconds left to actgammer40 raises to $100TreMomey has 15 seconds left to actTreMomey raises to $360.30, and is all ingammer40 calls $260.30TreMomey shows [Js Ac]gammer40 shows [9h Ks]*** FLOP *** [4d 2s Kh]*** TURN *** [4d 2s Kh] [5c]*** RIVER *** [4d 2s Kh 5c] [Kc]TreMomey shows a pair of Kingsgammer40 shows three of a kind, Kingsgammer40 wins the pot ($720.10) with three of a kind, Kings[x] misclick $163 pre-flop then shove the remaining $50 because I have backdoor outs LDO, almost get there but not quiteSeat 1: TreMomey ($219.50)Seat 2: j1044 ($364.60)j1044 posts the small blind of $1TreMomey posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to TreMomey [Th 9h]j1044 raises to $4TreMomey raises to $163j1044 calls $159*** FLOP *** [Ks 2h 6s]TreMomey has 15 seconds left to actTreMomey has requested TIMETreMomey bets $56.50, and is all inj1044 calls $56.50TreMomey shows [Th 9h]j1044 shows [Ac As]*** TURN *** [Ks 2h 6s] [4h]*** RIVER *** [Ks 2h 6s 4h] [5c]TreMomey shows King Ten highj1044 shows a pair of Acesj1044 wins the pot ($438.50) with a pair of Aces[x] last hand of the day fun win a buy in with K hi no showdownSeat 1: TreMomey ($432.50)Seat 2: j1044 ($341.10)TreMomey posts the small blind of $1j1044 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to TreMomey [Kd Qh]TreMomey raises to $6j1044 calls $4*** FLOP *** [Js 7h 2h]j1044 bets $12TreMomey raises to $33j1044 calls $21*** TURN *** [Js 7h 2h] [3s]j1044 checksTreMomey bets $53j1044 calls $53*** RIVER *** [Js 7h 2h 3s] [3d]j1044 has 15 seconds left to actj1044 bets $114TreMomey raises to $340.50, and is all inj1044 has 15 seconds left to actj1044 is sitting outj1044 foldshttp://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4453/jan16yb4.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
trussdude 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Maybe the best chocolate shake and onion rings I have ever had.$7.98 for a shake and rings. Too rich for my blood! Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i can't wait for mark to get home and see the comment i left for him on facebook. Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i can't wait for mark to get home and see the comment i left for him on facebook.LOOOL... I just read it. Link to post Share on other sites
king1305 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i can't wait for mark to get home and see the comment i left for him on facebook.LOLLL Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 $7.98 for a shake and rings. Too rich for my blood!You build roof trusses right? How has business been? Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You build roof trusses right? How has business been?... he can't afford a ****ing chocolate shake and onion rings. guess Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 ... he can't afford a ****ing chocolate shake and onion rings. guessI wouldn't pay $ 8 for a shake and rings Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I wouldn't pay $ 8 for a shake and ringsIm having Pulp Fiction flashbacks Link to post Share on other sites
bull62 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Im having Pulp Fiction flashbacksLOL. Thought exactly the same thing . Link to post Share on other sites
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