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If the real thing don't do the trickkkkkkkkkkYou better make up somethin quickkkkkkkkkkkYou gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wickOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh Barracuda!PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB ($107.90)UTG ($210.55)MP ($58.80)CO ($104.25)Hero (Button) ($203.80)SB ($123.30)Preflop: Hero is Button with :D, :D3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $8, BB calls $7, Hero calls $5Flop: ($24) :qh, :qh, :ts(3 players)SB bets $12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $30, SB calls $18Turn: ($84) :5c(2 players)SB checks, Hero checksRiver: ($84) :club:(2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $165.80 (All-In), SB calls $85.30 (All-In)Total pot: $254.60 | Rake: $3Results:Hero had :4h, :3h (full house, fives over twos).SB mucked :D, :D (two pair, Aces and fives).Outcome: Hero won $251.60sundayfunday.png

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Seat 4: deuces85 ($243.05 in chips) Seat 6: Nc_Kid_72 ($40 in chips) deuces85: posts small blind $1Nc_Kid_72: posts big blind $2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to deuces85 [6s Qs]deuces85: raises $4 to $6Nc_Kid_72: folds Uncalled bet ($4) returned to deuces85Nc_Kid_72 is sitting outdeuces85 collected $4 from potNc_Kid_72: ur a jerkNc_Kid_72: play fckin normalmade my day

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Newb Question:Pot-control: why? I always hear NLH players talking about pot-control. What is the function of limiting the pot size in a cash game? What is a circumstance under which one would practice PC?
Basically you want to implement pot control depending on the strength of your hand. You obviously want to keep the pots small with marginal hands like tp/tk so instead of raising a dry flop with tp/tk you simply flat call in hopes of keeping the pot small and seeing a cheap showdown.On the other hand you obviously want to increase the size of the pot when you think your ahead. oh yea, im a donkey so i don't listen to what i say.edit: this link says what im trying to say only 1000x better. http://www.beatnolimit.com/articles/potcontrol.html
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Newb Question:Pot-control: why? I always hear NLH players talking about pot-control. What is the function of limiting the pot size in a cash game? What is a circumstance under which one would practice PC?
In general, you pot control with medium strength hands like top pair top kicker. Hands where vs villain you don't want to get your whole stack in because if THEY are willing to get their whole stack in, they have better than tptk.Example:You raise AK from the CO, villain calls from the bb.Flop AJ5, villain checks you bet villain calls.Turn T, villain checks, you check behind for pot control.River 8, villain bets you call, or villain checks and you bet.Thats kind of your 'standard' line for a medium strength hand. We 'pot control' one street because many hands that we beat will put in 2 bets post flop, but few will put in bets on all 3 streets (effectively for 100bbs if you bet all 3 streets)old thread on 2p2 about it:http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showflat.p...part=1&vc=1Mark
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What is pot control Pot control is the idea of controling the size of the pot, whether you wish to make it small or big. In the Little Green Book by Phil Gordon, he has a over simplified but yet important saying: "Small hand, small pot; Big hand, big pot." Pot control is about making the pot big or small, but is usually discussed on keeping the pot small or managable.Why to exercise pot control Touched on in the first sentence, certain hands are best played in a small pot situation, certain hands are best played in a large pot situation. By keeping the pot small on earlier rounds, it makes putting the bets put in with "marginal" hands smaller and keeps the pot a reasonable size and you are not bringing a knife to a gun fight. When to use pot control Pot control is best applied when you have a hand with good showdown value but can't take a lot of heat. It is also good against tighter opponents who often arent calling with the same crap the fish are. It is best applied in a Way Ahead, Way Behind situation. How to exercise pot control Often, pot control can be exercised in a few manners. When in position, the best way is often checking the turn when the board isn't particularly drawy or you arent vunerable. Another way to exercise pot control is to call a bet when lead into as the PFR, not raise. When OOP, pot control can be exercised by often by your general bet size, and also by check callingAnything Else Knowing when to use pot control is important. You should still be valuebetting a lot of hands, and not sacrificing clear valuebets in the name of pot control. But sometimes, you just need/want to get to showdown, and thats where pot control comes in.What about making the pot large? When you have a big hand, you wanna get the monies in the pot, but also wanna do it in a clear and safe manner. You need to bet enough on earlier streets to stop a draw from being profitable, but have enough behind to bet on a later street to also make the draw unprofitable.
emc from 2+2http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.p...rue#Post7947101
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Basically you want to implement pot control depending on the strength of your hand. You obviously want to keep the pots small with marginal hands like tp/tk so instead of raising a dry flop with tp/tk you simply flat call in hopes of keeping the pot small and seeing a cheap showdown.On the other hand you obviously want to increase the size of the pot when you think your ahead. oh yea, im a donkey so i don't listen to what i say.
When you think you're ahead AND you think they have a worse hand they can call with.Mark
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Thanks...so basically it's checking to create value against a weaker hand?
In a word, yes. Though checking/calling is probably a better way to put it, you don't really want to check/raise for the same reason.oops, missed the edit. Yes.
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Thanks...so basically it's checking to create value against a weaker hand?(In NoSup's example)
Also to save money if villian has 55 for some reason. Insead of having to call a turn check raise and river bet you only have to call a river bet.
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Thanks...so basically it's checking to create value against a weaker hand?(In NoSup's example)
Its so that you don't get stacked by a better hand. For instance, recently AcesonFire posted how all his big (60bbs+) losses in hands are with overpairs. That is because he isn't pot controlling. He's running into sets or 2 pair or whatever probably a lot and betting flop, betting turn and then finds himself pot committed when villain shoves turn or river. If you pot control and villain outflops your medium strength hand, you only lose half a stack instead of a whole stack.As a general rule, you have 3 'bets' post flop. With medium strength (one pair type) hands, you want to get 2 bets in, which equates to roughly 50bbs total of your stack in the pot by the river.Mark
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Its so that you don't get stacked by a better hand. For instance, recently AcesonFire posted how all his big (60bbs+) losses in hands are with overpairs. That is because he isn't pot controlling. He's running into sets or 2 pair or whatever probably a lot and betting flop, betting turn and then finds himself pot committed when villain shoves turn or river. If you pot control and villain outflops your medium strength hand, you only lose half a stack instead of a whole stack.Mark
OK, totally understand what you're saying. Sort of a combination of poor situational value and reverse implied odds is causing you to play more cautiously there would be another, not-totally-incorrect way to think about it?
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OK, totally understand what you're saying. Sort of a combination of poor situational value and reverse implied odds is causing you to play more cautiously there would be another, not-totally-incorrect way to think about it?
That's reasonable.But it's not entirely caution. It's also maximizing value. For a number of villains they will never have a hand that's worse than TPTK that will call flop and turn. They'll have a fairly wide range of hands worse than TPTK that will call flop and river though because their hand has some showdown value as a bluff catcher. And/or they have a wider range of hands worse than TPTK that will call the flop and bet the river when you check the turn.So by taking a bet flop, check turn, call or bet river line you both minimize your loses when you're beat and maximize your profits when you're ahead.
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Its so that you don't get stacked by a better hand. For instance, recently AcesonFire posted how all his big (60bbs+) losses in hands are with overpairs. That is because he isn't pot controlling. He's running into sets or 2 pair or whatever probably a lot and betting flop, betting turn and then finds himself pot committed when villain shoves turn or river. If you pot control and villain outflops your medium strength hand, you only lose half a stack instead of a whole stack.As a general rule, you have 3 'bets' post flop. With medium strength (one pair type) hands, you want to get 2 bets in, which equates to roughly 50bbs total of your stack in the pot by the river.Mark
Ha, I wish. Most of the time it was the flop, I'd just get it all in there and then but they would have made a better hand. I had no reason to exercise keeping the pot small as it made sense for me to have the best hand. But you are somewhat right, there were times when I inflated the pot on the turn and river when I was beaten and in a couple of cases where overpairs were clearly not in the lead.
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This isn't terrible right? I've got a little history with this villan, IE 2 hands ago I 3 bet his blind steal, he 4 bet me, I believe somewhat thinking I was restealing, I called with TT I then bet the flop and he folded. He is running 21/15/2.5Think he can be CRAI with a really wide range here and my 4 bet makes it very hard for him to continue.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($10.10)SB ($11.60)BB ($13.70)UTG ($9.75)Hero (MP) ($24.15)CO ($21.55)Preflop: Hero is MP with :D, :jhUTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BB calls $0.40, 1 foldFlop: ($1.15) :club:, :D, :ts(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6

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This isn't terrible right? I've got a little history with this villan, IE 2 hands ago I 3 bet his blind steal, he 4 bet me, I believe somewhat thinking I was restealing, I called with TT I then bet the flop and he folded. He is running 21/15/2.5Think he can be CRAI with a really wide range here and my 4 bet makes it very hard for him to continue.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($10.10)SB ($11.60)BB ($13.70)UTG ($9.75)Hero (MP) ($24.15)CO ($21.55)Preflop: Hero is MP with :D, :jhUTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BB calls $0.40, 1 foldFlop: ($1.15) :club:, :D, :ts(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6
I think this is pretty terrible and I check behind this flop a LOT, maybe 90% of the time.
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This isn't terrible right? I've got a little history with this villan, IE 2 hands ago I 3 bet his blind steal, he 4 bet me, I believe somewhat thinking I was restealing, I called with TT I then bet the flop and he folded. He is running 21/15/2.5Think he can be CRAI with a really wide range here and my 4 bet makes it very hard for him to continue.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($10.10)SB ($11.60)BB ($13.70)UTG ($9.75)Hero (MP) ($24.15)CO ($21.55)Preflop: Hero is MP with :D, :jhUTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BB calls $0.40, 1 foldFlop: ($1.15) :club:, :D, :ts(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6
rule 1: eliminate ALL and I mean ALL fancy plays at 10nlrule 2: make hands get value.
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This isn't terrible right? I've got a little history with this villan, IE 2 hands ago I 3 bet his blind steal, he 4 bet me, I believe somewhat thinking I was restealing, I called with TT I then bet the flop and he folded. He is running 21/15/2.5Think he can be CRAI with a really wide range here and my 4 bet makes it very hard for him to continue.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($10.10)SB ($11.60)BB ($13.70)UTG ($9.75)Hero (MP) ($24.15)CO ($21.55)Preflop: Hero is MP with :D, :jhUTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BB calls $0.40, 1 foldFlop: ($1.15) :club:, :D, :ts(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6
Quit acting like you're playing MSNL at a $10 table. There's a great discourse on pot control going on and this is the opposite of it at a level people are trying their best to give you free money.
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I think this is pretty terrible and I check behind this flop a LOT, maybe 90% of the time.
Quit acting like you're playing MSNL at a $10 table. There's a great discourse on pot control going on and this is the opposite of it at a level people are trying their best to give you free money.
and calling 4 bets with TT at 10nl is retarded.
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I think this is pretty terrible and I check behind this flop a LOT, maybe 90% of the time.
We are way ahead or way behind on this flop and will not get 3 streets of value from competent opponents. This is a perfect situations for exercising pot contol.
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Is this standard or am I being results orientedPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (Button) ($105.50)SB ($38)BB ($104.70)UTG ($104.10)MP ($174.25)CO ($140.70)Preflop: Hero is Button with :qh, :DUTG raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $4, 2 foldsFlop: ($9.50) :ts, :D, :5c(2 players)UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7Turn: ($23.50) :D(2 players)UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14River: ($51.50) :4h(2 players)UTG bets $28, Hero calls $28Total pot: $107.50 | Rake: $3Results:Hero had :qh, :3h (three of a kind, Aces).UTG had :D, :club: (three of a kind, Aces).Outcome: Hero won $104.50
head explode~ i haven't played 6max in awhile but how are we not shoving? He's never folding worse trip aces and look at that betsizing ;lsjadfkl;ajs;ldfj;asljfsda. DONT U LIKE MONEY TEDDY?
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I can't decide if I should be fkin pissed or if I should be happy about how today went~todayza6.jpgw1764.pngTeehee~Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 2 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BB): $449.75BTN/SB: $365.60Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with Q :3h A :heart:BTN/SB calls $2, Hero raises to $18, BTN/SB calls $14Flop: ($36.00) T :D K :D 6 :D(2 players)Hero bets $22, BTN/SB raises to $44, Hero calls $22Turn: ($124.00) T :club:(2 players)Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $124, Hero calls $124River: ($372.00) K :ts(2 players)Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $179.60 all in, Hero calls $179.60Final Pot: $731.20Hero shows Q :qh A :4h (two pair, Kings and Tens)BTN/SB shows J :5c 2 :D (two pair, Kings and Tens)Hero wins $730.70(Rake: $0.50)

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Teehee~Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 2 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterHero (BB): $449.75BTN/SB: $365.60Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with Q :3h A :heart:BTN/SB calls $2, Hero raises to $18, BTN/SB calls $14Flop: ($36.00) T :D K :D 6 :D(2 players)Hero bets $22, BTN/SB raises to $44, Hero calls $22Turn: ($124.00) T :club:(2 players)Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $124, Hero calls $124River: ($372.00) K :ts(2 players)Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $179.60 all in, Hero calls $179.60Final Pot: $731.20Hero shows Q :qh A :4h (two pair, Kings and Tens)BTN/SB shows J :5c 2 :D (two pair, Kings and Tens)Hero wins $730.70(Rake: $0.50)
ok, this is the kind of hand that just blows my mind. I would have collapsed like a little girl , shivering my a puddle of little girl pee and folded, like, after the first post flop raise.How do you call this down?
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