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[Vtlaxer09 4]

Got a report from The Lobster that Jerry Yang is playing 2/5nl at the Orleans. Mark

god i wish i was there.

[Dratj 0]

Did I play this bad?3 handed 3/6 nl. Villian is BB with $600, I have $600 in the SB. No reads on villian, just sat down, 2nd hand.I hold A 8 off.button folds, i raise to $18. he calls.Flop 7 A 6 rainbow,I bet $20, he raises to $42. i call. Turn 9, gives me top pair and OESD. I check, villian bet's $70. I instashove, he tanks for almost the full time bank and calls.

[ROBBBIGG 0]

i might have played it the same, but i don't play 3/6. sucks he called you, but you probably had outsedit: actually i wouldn't have raised a8 in the sb, but that's just because im super tight from the sb

[NoSup4U 0]

Ok, this was posted way back in October but i'm reading this again and this is a good question. I've read some responses after this was posted, and Mark and TB17 said that they would call in hand #1 but not hand #2. Why? Are we calling with Q9 because we have position? Dueces said that he had no stats on this particular 3 better...so i'm confused there....EDIT: im confused because if we had stats on the villian, and if villian was loose, than i can totally understand calling, then floating flop, etc. But we have ZERO stats on him. The second hand, why aren't we 4 betting this preflop (say to $40), rather than not calling at all? I don't have PAHUD and don't use it but from my understanding (i could be wrong) the villian's stats are pretty loose, no?

That is just in general what I'd do without knowing more about villain.We have position in both hands.I call with Q9s because we have a suited connector and are unlikey to be dominated or make a hand we can't get away from easily post flop that is second best. And we can make a hand that will get his whole stack. (although Q9s is at the very bottom of my calling range here)I fold AQo because we're likely to be dominated, or make a second best hand post flop that we won't fold, or make a hand post flop that makes us best but scares villain so he won't put any more money into the pot.Mark

[NoSup4U 0]

Did I play this bad?3 handed 3/6 nl. Villian is BB with $600, I have $600 in the SB. No reads on villian, just sat down, 2nd hand.I hold A 8 off.button folds, i raise to $18. he calls.Flop 7 A 6 rainbow,I bet $20, he raises to $42. i call. Turn 9, gives me top pair and OESD. I check, villian bet's $70. I instashove, he tanks for almost the full time bank and calls.

Works for me.Mark

[zimmer4141 0]

Did I play this bad?3 handed 3/6 nl. Villian is BB with $600, I have $600 in the SB. No reads on villian, just sat down, 2nd hand.I hold A 8 off.button folds, i raise to $18. he calls.Flop 7 A 6 rainbow,I bet $20, he raises to $42. i call. Turn 9, gives me top pair and OESD. I check, villian bet's $70. I instashove, he tanks for almost the full time bank and calls.

I really feel like this is very spewy. We're shoving 540 total (470 more) and we have max 11 outs, probably closer to 8 outs though if he's calling, and we're never ahead when he calls.When he folds, we win 130When he calls we'll figure we have on average 20% equity, so we're putting in 540 and winning 240 on average (20% of 1200).When he calls, we lose $300 on this play, so he has to fold 2.3x more often than he's calling. This means that for this to be profitable he has to fold more than 70% of the time, which I don't know that he's doing on this board. I don't see him folding many 2-pair combos and he's never folding anything better than 2 pair.I feel like calling/playing river is a better play than check/shoving turn. It is a strong play, but you're too deep on the turn in relation to his bet to make it a good play. Plus you do kinda make it look like a big draw when you make this big of a shove.

[Snamuh 0]

Meh, I would often just repop the flop to $200, but flat calling is ok.I'm tempted to bet the turn. IDK, I'd hate to have another diamond hit and lose to some random flop bluff hand.I probably shove the river. I don't see him having a queen here ever. You're basically value bluffing (he may fold a jack, he may call with a flush), but there's almost no downside to it.

That's one of the worst turn cards in the deck. A bunch of hands he would have been semi bluffing the flop with are now ahead of us and we're still behind like every J. We're basically only still ahead of QT and a random bluff so I really really don't like a turn bet. And shoving the river? How does he like never have a Q here. If you wanted to bet the turn, it would be pretty much to protect against QT (we aren't trying to protect against his air + diamond because he'd likely just barrel that himself), and now QT beats us. I don't know if he folds a jack because it wouldn't make much sense from my line and we just own ourselves the times he has the Q.

[Willing 2 Die 0]

That is just in general what I'd do without knowing more about villain.We have position in both hands.I call with Q9s because we have a suited connector and are unlikey to be dominated or make a hand we can't get away from easily post flop that is second best. And we can make a hand that will get his whole stack. (although Q9s is at the very bottom of my calling range here)I fold AQo because we're likely to be dominated, or make a second best hand post flop that we won't fold, or make a hand post flop that makes us best but scares villain so he won't put any more money into the pot.Mark

Gotcha. I'm thinking about trying 6 max again, and these were both good examples i thought.With the AQ hand, since i don't use PAHUD, i rely on notes and feel for opponent. If i perceive an opponent in the blinds to be 3 betting my LP raises lightly(any pair, A10+), is it ok to 4bet here or is that not good?

[CBass1724 1]

god i wish i was there.

i see what you did there

[Dratj 0]

Works for me.Mark

I'm glad you dont' think it's spewy but I like Zim's analysis. Sorry.

I really feel like this is very spewy. We're shoving 540 total (470 more) and we have max 11 outs, probably closer to 8 outs though if he's calling, and we're never ahead when he calls.When he folds, we win 130When he calls we'll figure we have on average 20% equity, so we're putting in 540 and winning 240 on average (20% of 1200).When he calls, we lose $300 on this play, so he has to fold 2.3x more often than he's calling. This means that for this to be profitable he has to fold more than 70% of the time, which I don't know that he's doing on this board. I don't see him folding many 2-pair combos and he's never folding anything better than 2 pair.I feel like calling/playing river is a better play than check/shoving turn. It is a strong play, but you're too deep on the turn in relation to his bet to make it a good play. Plus you do kinda make it look like a big draw when you make this big of a shove.

I agree it's spewy, def. felt that way. I should have just flat called the turn and reassesed the river. or is folding the turn bad? I thought about either folding or shoving. How about three betting the flop? If he shoves there, I can get away from my hand.

[zimmer4141 0]

3-betting the flop is real real bad. Anything he's continuing with has you crushed, so you're basically turning your hand into a bluff. Calling flop is good because the raise is so small.I like calling turn and reevaluating river. If we make our straight we can try to extract value, otherwise we try to get a cheap showdown and probably fold to a river bet.

[Snamuh 0]

I'm glad you dont' think it's spewy but I like Zim's analysis. Sorry.I agree it's spewy, def. felt that way. I should have just flat called the turn and reassesed the river. or is folding the turn bad? I thought about either folding or shoving. How about three betting the flop? If he shoves there, I can get away from my hand.

Really really bad thinking. Call flop, call turn, reeval river.

[NoSup4U 0]

Probably a bad idea to mini 3bet with me still to act behind you :)Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$69 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $1331.60UTG+1: $606MP1: $331MP2: $796.05MP3: $231CO: $591Button: $809.80NoSup4U: $600BB: $600Pre-flop: (9 players) NoSup4U is SB with 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises to $18, CO raises to $30, Button folds, NoSup4U calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls.Flop: ($102, 3 players)NoSup4U checks, MP3 bets $42, CO raises to $228, NoSup4U raises all-in $570, MP3 folds, CO calls all-in $333.Uncalled bets: $9 returned to NoSup4U. Turn: ($747, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $1266)River: ($747, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $1266)Results:Final pot: $747CO showed Ks KdNoSup4U showed 7c 8cMark

[NoSup4U 0]

Gotcha. I'm thinking about trying 6 max again, and these were both good examples i thought.With the AQ hand, since i don't use PAHUD, i rely on notes and feel for opponent. If i perceive an opponent in the blinds to be 3 betting my LP raises lightly(any pair, A10+), is it ok to 4bet here or is that not good?

If you are happy getting your stack in with AQ vs a villain, then go ahead and 4bet. But you should never 4bet fold with a hand as strong as AQ.Mark

[NoSup4U 0]

Really really bad thinking. Call flop, call turn, reeval river.

Agree vmuch regarding 3betting the flop.Mark

[ah2388 0]

Meh, I would often just repop the flop to $200, but flat calling is ok. I feel the exact opposite, flat calling is the only logical play because the only hand we get value from by effectively shipping the flop is q10dd which were flipping with anyway basically.I'm tempted to bet the turn. IDK, I'd hate to have another diamond hit and lose to some random flop bluff hand. Turn is worst card in the deck for our hand....I probably shove the river. I don't see him having a queen here ever. You're basically value bluffing (he may fold a jack, he may call with a flush), but there's almost no downside to it.I dont think he ever calls with a flush, and if he elected to raise q10 or some other qx draw(flush draw) he got there..there is little to no value in a raise imo

ummmmmm

[bull62 0]

I mean, define stupid people? Used car salesman make their money from "stupid people" that want a car, profiting from some more than others. Pro athletes make their money from "stupid people"...fans who want entertainment. How about a bartender living off tips from people getting drunk? What about people making money in real estate? Are they taking their money from "stupid people" who are paying rent? No...there is a business opportunity there and they are taking advantage of that opportunity to further their own livelihood. The difference, of course, is that in all of the above examples, people are willing to give away their money, almost always in return for a service. There is no service return at the poker table. But I implore anyone to give me a reason why, if someone is legitamately putting their own money up, if they are not returned a service, it is illegitate. There is no answer to that question besides "It just doesn't seem right". My 2c...good topic to talk about though.

My wife's response....

That's really funny... It seems he talked himself into poker really being something that just takes stupid people's money or illegitimate ...I can't tell which.Really he's right, everyone pays money and expects something of value in return (better service from the car dealer or Realtor) for all of those things he mentioned, but in poker, they really are doing it expecting a return of entertainment. SO, really poker is nothing but entertainment...fun if you win, not so fun if you lose. Most people just don't have an expectation of losing, therefore, they expect poker to be fun entertainment. Some people give up sooner when it's not what they expect (losing) and some don't see the light...I think that's called being addicted.

[bull62 0]

Darwinism at its best. I see no problem here. Hopefully losing their money to me will dissuade them from having kids.

And another one....

This was funny... however, probably not true... stupid people still seem to breed.

[Jordan 1]

Tell your wife idiots win all the time.Beating me handidly lately.I just played this guy on eurodonx...freaking did the most dumb stuff.Flat A6o oop. Flop T83 c/c, turn A, c/c, riv x, c/c.Flat K9o oop. Flop Q75 c/c, t K, c/c, riv J c/c. Only two examples, he did this countless times. It's so awesome, I can't even explain it.To beat me: Check/call with 3 outs. Hit said three outs and then check to me every street so I can valuetown myself.Awesome.- Jordan

[bull62 0]

Turning the day around in one hand ftw!!!Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Hero ($85.45)SB ($25.20)BB ($25)UTG ($26.25)MP ($48.10)Preflop: Hero is Button with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, Hero raises to $2.9, 2 folds, MP calls $2.05.Flop: ($6.15) , , (2 players)MP checks, Hero bets $3, MP raises to $9, Hero raises to $27, MP raises to $54.2 (All-In), Hero calls $21.20.Turn: ($102.55) (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($102.55) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $108.55Results in white below: MP has 9s 9h (three of a kind, nines). Hero has As Ad (three of a kind, aces). Outcome: Hero wins $108.55.

[Dratj 0]

3-betting the flop is real real bad. Anything he's continuing with has you crushed, so you're basically turning your hand into a bluff. Calling flop is good because the raise is so small.I like calling turn and reevaluating river. If we make our straight we can try to extract value, otherwise we try to get a cheap showdown and probably fold to a river bet.

Really really bad thinking. Call flop, call turn, reeval river.

Agree vmuch regarding 3betting the flop.Mark

Got it. Thx guys. I think I'm going to stop playing for a while. Down about 2k in 2 weeks of playing 2/4 to 2/6 nl parttime. Using life roll obv. Maybe instead I'll get cardrunners or something like that. Contemplating a coach perhaps. Poker is so frustrating sometimes.

[Sheiky 0]

Turning the day around in one hand ftw!!!Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Hero ($85.45)SB ($25.20)BB ($25)UTG ($26.25)MP ($48.10)

Does not. Compute.

[Snamuh 0]

Got it. Thx guys. I think I'm going to stop playing for a while. Down about 2k in 2 weeks of playing 2/4 to 2/6 nl parttime. Using life roll obv. Maybe instead I'll get cardrunners or something like that. Contemplating a coach perhaps. Poker is so frustrating sometimes.

I'm not saying this to be insulting at all - just to help you out. In the grand scheme of things, you are not very good at poker. You really can't expect to be a winner at 2/4 or higher. You probably can't even expect to be a winner at .10/.25. Also, 2k is nothing. To put things in perspective, I recently lost 8.3k in a 1.5 week span playing mainly 2/4, some 3/6, and I probably am a much more experienced player than you are. What you lost is like 3-5 buyins. My advice is to drop down to .10/.25 or .25/.50, and actually absorb what people are saying. The A8 hand you posted shows a bit of your inexperience and if you really want to get good at poker, you will need to put in the time. If poker is a casual thing for you and/or you are unwilling to drop down and learn, then you are going to have to accept the fact that you WILL be a losing player at 3/6. At 2/4. At 1/2. At .50/1. Probably at .25/.50. Take from this what you will, but everyone has to start somewhere and work their way up.In conclusion, midstakes is tough. You are not nearly ready (maybe in 1-2 years time).

[Citizen Erased 0]

I finished my exams today so shall soon be getting stupidly drunk, but before I go, a pondering thought...Your thoughts when hands are shown, before all cards are dealt can't affect what cards come, can they?eg. Your AA vs. KK. If you for a split second think, "go on, give him a King", or something like, "he's well gonna hit" surely can't make it hit?I mean I usually look away from the screen in tournaments, minimize the window and read the internet when it's, for example, my AK v. their A4 AIPF.In actual knowledge, it can't. In experience, it fricking well can.Heh.

[bull62 0]

Does not. Compute.

How about now?