whatgreatis 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This hand is vs the same villain as above. I don't think he's ever raising a naked Jack on the turn which puts his range at AJ/KQ/J10/spades/910 on the river imo. Feel free to add to that range and tell me I'm horrible.No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownButton ($148.75)Hero (SB) ($397)BB ($405)UTG ($1227.60)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, AUTG raises $7, 1 fold, Hero raises $26, 1 fold, UTG calls $20Flop: ($56) 3, A, 10(2 players)Hero checks, UTG checksTurn: ($56) J(2 players)Hero bets $45, UTG raises $110, Hero calls $65River: ($276) J(2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $1090.60 (All-In), Hero calls $260 (All-In)Total pot: $796Results in white below: Hero had Q, A (two pair, Aces and Jacks).UTG had J, J (four of a kind, Jacks).Outcome: UTG won $1624.10 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I can't ever beat him lolDealt to TreMomey [8c Ah]boston raises to $119, and is all inTreMomey raises to $300, and is cappedTK420 US foldsTreMomey shows [8c Ah]boston shows [6s Ac]Uncalled bet of $181 returned to TreMomey*** FLOP *** [9c 4h 7h]*** TURN *** [9c 4h 7h] [5d]*** RIVER *** [9c 4h 7h 5d] [8h]TreMomey shows a pair of Eightsboston shows a straight, Nine highboston wins the pot ($247) with a straight, Nine high Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Warning: Bad beat post!Villain in this hand is our very own simoball and No_Neck is sweating me at the time. When Simo sits down Nathan says "He 3bet's a lot" and his very first hand he 3bets me lol. I think it's pretty standard on both sides. Obviously a little unlucky.No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownHero (Button) ($438.85)SB ($395)BB ($400)UTG ($440.20)MP ($202.70)CO ($314)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, Q3 folds, Hero raises $7, 1 fold, BB raises $22, Hero calls $17Flop: ($49) 6, 4, 2(2 players)BB bets $35, Hero raises $122, BB raises $341 (All-In), Hero calls $254Turn: ($801) 7(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($801) 3(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $801Results in white below: Hero had J, Q (flush, Queen high).BB had 10, A (flush, Ace high).Outcome: BB won $798 Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 whatrobustois, plz post this "/" graph in a few hrsPlanning on it.And on the A10hh hand my value range is a little narrow but it includes sets/KQ/AQ/KK/AA. It might be a spot where it's a little too narrow to try to run a bluff but it's really hard to call off your stack with a midpp 200bb deep with an over. Link to post Share on other sites
BubbleBoy 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Warning: Bad beat post!Villain in this hand is our very own simoball and No_Neck is sweating me at the time. When Simo sits down Nathan says "He 3bet's a lot" and his very first hand he 3bets me lol. I think it's pretty standard on both sides. Obviously a little unlucky.No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownHero (Button) ($438.85)SB ($395)BB ($400)UTG ($440.20)MP ($202.70)CO ($314)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, Q3 folds, Hero raises $7, 1 fold, BB raises $22, Hero calls $17Flop: ($49) 6, 4, 2(2 players)BB bets $35, Hero raises $122, BB raises $341 (All-In), Hero calls $254Turn: ($801) 7(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($801) 3(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $801Results in white below: Hero had J, Q (flush, Queen high).BB had 10, A (flush, Ace high).Outcome: BB won $798 I think the hand is standard on your part... Always raise your flopped flushes is my rule, b/c you lose so much value when you over flush someone, plus the board can only really get worse. As for the villain, I think getting it in for 200 BB's is pretty bad. You're never bluff raising this flop. Your range is almost exclusively flushes/sets and maybe even a straight sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You're never bluff raising this flop.Really? I'd be bluff raising that flop a fair amount.I also think he could be raising that flop with 77-JJ hands with one diamond. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yeah, stacking off with a naked Ace high flush draw 200 BB deep definitely isn't "standard". Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Really? I'd be bluff raising that flop a fair amount.I also think he could be raising that flop with 77-JJ hands with one diamond. Uh.......no.When you get action here you are completely crushed pretty much always. Link to post Share on other sites
TB17 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ESPECIALLY since you have the Ad it makes it unlikely that he's semi bluffing. Eitherway I dont think he is ever raise-folding so I dont like the 3 bet with the Ad.I'm never ever in my life riasing 77-JJ diamond or not Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Looks like no more Concierge service on Stars . Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Uh.......no.When you get action here you are completely crushed pretty much always.Meh, you're right about the 77-JJ. That was wishful thinking.That said, 6d4d2d is a pretty good flop to bluffraise against my range. In fact, if I'm supposed to fold the Ad then it's a great flop to raise.How often do I have a hand to call/shove a raise with given that I have a wide 3bet range against a button open? Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think the hand is standard on your part... Always raise your flopped flushes is my rule, b/c you lose so much value when you over flush someone, plus the board can only really get worse. As for the villain, I think getting it in for 200 BB's is pretty bad. You're never bluff raising this flop. Your range is almost exclusively flushes/sets and maybe even a straight sometimes.Agree with this. Not a fan of getting it in for 200 BBs there with naked Ad when you are almost always up against set/flush. Gonna be rare to be getting it in with like QdQx or KdKx. Link to post Share on other sites
BubbleBoy 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Really? I'd be bluff raising that flop a fair amount.I also think he could be raising that flop with 77-JJ hands with one diamond.If he is raising the flop with those hands, I would fire him from life Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 you are almost always up against set/flush.Am I the only one that bluffraises that flop a ton in button's position? Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Am I the only one that bluffraises that flop a ton in button's position?In a 3 bet pot bluff raising that flop is burning money. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Am I the only one that bluffraises that flop a ton in button's position?The thing is, do you have any reason to believe he IS bluffraising? Just because you might do something a lot doesn't mean you should consider your opponents exactly the same way. You need a pretty good read on your opponent to b3b with AdXx there. FWIW I'm also not 3betting pre with ATo OOP 200 BBs deep. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 In a 3 bet pot bluff raising that flop is burning money.I'm not necessarily going to agree with this statement but I don't think there's any cause to believe that someone's bluffraising range there is wide (edit: as a default). Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm not necessarily going to agree with this statement but I don't think there's any cause to believe that someone's bluffraising range there is wide (edit: as a default).The reason most people don't bluff raise there is because Villain isn't folding a ton of his range that is betting that flop. There are definitely going to be much better boards than this one to bluff raise. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The reason most people don't bluff raise there is because Villain isn't folding a ton of his range that is betting that flop. There are definitely going to be much better boards than this one to bluff raise.At the same time, villain generally isn't going to love this flop with most of his 3betting range for 200 BBs and if villain is someone who cbets mindlessly on boards like this in 3bet pots (some villains just auto cbet), I don't hate considering the option of bluffraising. I don't think it's the greatest spot, but I don't think it's lighting money on fire. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 At the same time, villain generally isn't going to love this flop with most of his 3betting range for 200 BBs and if villain is someone who cbets mindlessly on boards like this in 3bet pots (some villains just auto cbet), I don't hate considering the option of bluffraising. I don't think it's the greatest spot, but I don't think it's lighting money on fire.Given that this is the first hand we've ever played together, he can't know my tendencies and I have no reason to believe he's willing to bluffraise.RDog/Snamuh, what hands are you c/betting on that flop, and what are you doing to a raise from an unknown villain? Are you c/betting the AdX hands? How about something that totally missed like KcQc, or something like 99 no diamond?TBH I'd say I tend to c/bet these flops with a wide range of hands, and it's probably a mistake with a lot of them. Link to post Share on other sites
mhoward29 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Rdog, results on that A high flush hand? I cant stop thinking about it! Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Given that this is the first hand we've ever played together, he can't know my tendencies and I have no reason to believe he's willing to bluffraise.RDog/Snamuh, what hands are you c/betting on that flop, and what are you doing to a raise from an unknown villain? Are you c/betting the AdX hands? How about something that totally missed like KcQc, or something like 99 no diamond?TBH I'd say I tend to c/bet these flops with a wide range of hands, and it's probably a mistake with a lot of them.It depends on the tendencies of the villain 200 BB deep. I probably wouldn't 3bet 99 there 200 BBs deep most of the time but I'm not the most experienced deep stack player. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Looks like no more Concierge service on Stars .What does this mean for your bottom line? Link to post Share on other sites
Painter567 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 What does this mean for your bottom line?-26% obv Link to post Share on other sites
empythree 0 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Rdog, results on that A high flush hand? I cant stop thinking about it! I would have folded... just me though Link to post Share on other sites
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