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Nobody like you, so you get lost.

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What is everybody's standard line on the flop and turn of this hand? His stats were 26.4/8.2 and he seemed fairly callly sometimes. I was trying some 9h play today.The hh converter site was down today. :club::ts:5c:4h:3h Full Tilt Poker Game #10028750169: Table Desert Oak - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:57:50 ET - 2009/01/13Seat 1: alkim416 ($1,204)Seat 2: U_2Good4_Me ($1,000)Seat 3: Fluffdog ($1,239)Seat 4: Count Stacula ($2,640)Seat 5: timhorr ($1,551.25)Seat 6: djeepy ($1,010)Seat 7: IH8SHORTSTAKS ($1,000)Seat 8: hellopuppy ($1,030)Seat 9: siggisick ($235)djeepy has 5 seconds left to actdjeepy is sitting outdjeepy has timed outIH8SHORTSTAKS posts the big blind of $10The button is in seat #5*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Fluffdog [Ah Qc]djeepy has returnedhellopuppy foldssiggisick foldsalkim416 foldsU_2Good4_Me foldsFluffdog raises to $30Count Stacula foldstimhorr calls $30IH8SHORTSTAKS has 15 seconds left to actIH8SHORTSTAKS adds $10IH8SHORTSTAKS folds*** FLOP *** [As 3d 9s]Fluffdog has 15 seconds left to actFluffdog bets $50timhorr raises to $100Fluffdog has 15 seconds left to actFluffdog calls $50*** TURN *** [As 3d 9s] [Qh]Fluffdog checkstimhorr has 15 seconds left to acttimhorr bets $280nutzbuster has 15 seconds left to act
Call the flop, Check/Jam the turn.
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AttitudeI think some of my favorite posts in this thread are "**** you poker!!!" followed by a graph that swung waaaaaaay low and eventually worked its way back up to busto. The reason I love those posts is that for the most part that person has "it". And "it", is that attitude that it takes to play this game that can be so frustrating. The attitude that says no matter what this game throws at me, I will not back down. So many people think poker is about them against their opponents. It isn't. It is you versus poker. As long as you do all the right things what happens against your opponents will take care of itself. What happens the rest of the time is your issue with the game itself. Most people's leaks are these types: emotional control, confidence, bankroll management. This game is very humbling and during those times when nothing goes right, you need to have that place you can go to that reminds you how good you are. You need that attitude. Some people might not share that they feel this way but here is part of the conversation I had with one of our horses on this subject:Me: my point is, your attitude needs to be more of "**** you, poker can suck my dick, i will kick its ass even when running bad"Me: like people say i am arrogant all the time and i never really dispute itMe: you know why? cause im a ****ing badass and i know it
I liked the rest of your post, but I disagree with some of this especially the bolded part. When I see people post graphs like this I typically recognize that the number of hands graphed is larger than the graphs they normally post and just feel that these people have a major problem with being able to quit loser and that this is a pretty big leak. You have to have a balance between thinking you are a beast and at the same time being able to recognize when you might not be playing your best while reevaluate parts of your game and/or moving down if it doesn't turn around. Too much attitude is not a good thing and I don't think its that important in the first place.
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I 6 tabled for the first time today. That was a lot easier than I expected. I'm glad I insta-felt comfortable with it. My session was pretty swongy.My day:1-13.jpgI had a huge fish at one of my tables. This guy honestly just smashed buttons whenever he had any pair. He took the strangest lines and he always bet pot. I stacked him and got the whole table jelouse. Here's two hands I played vs him. It's loltastic. His stats were 74/34/6 with a 27% 3bet.No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownButton ($29.17)Hero (SB) ($152.30)BB ($50)UTG ($119.47)CO ($126.45)Preflop: Hero is SB with 3heart.gif, 4heart.gifUTG calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, BB checksFlop: ($2) 7spade.gif, 3diamond.gif, 3spade.gif(4 players)Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, UTG raises $6.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $11.50, UTG raises $34.50, Hero calls $28Turn: ($84) 9heart.gif(2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $77.97 (All-In), Hero calls $77.97River: ($239.94) Kspade.gif(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $239.94Results:Hero had 3heart.gif, 4heart.gif (three of a kind, threes).UTG had 2club.gif, 2diamond.gif (two pair, threes and twos).Outcome: Hero won $236.94

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Fcp wont let me post more than two images. Here's another big hand vs the retard.No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownHero (Button) ($98.50)SB ($49.50)BB ($164.87)UTG ($51.70)CO ($59.17)Preflop: Hero is Button with Jspade.gif, 7spade.gif2 folds, Hero raises $1.75, 1 fold, BB calls $1.25Flop: ($3.75) 4club.gif, 5club.gif, Kdiamond.gif(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $2.55, BB calls $2.55Turn: ($8.85) 7diamond.gif(2 players)BB bets $8.85, Hero calls $8.85River: ($26.55) Qspade.gif(2 players)BB bets $26.55, Hero calls $26.55Total pot: $79.65Results:Hero had Jspade.gif, 7spade.gif (one pair, sevens).BB had 4spade.gif, 2heart.gif (one pair, fours).Outcome: Hero won $76.65

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I didn't want to make a thread about this, cause it isn't really worthy of a whole thread. But im curious about something.I have a few friends whole play online poker, some with some sucess some without. But ive known these friends in particular for a long time.Am I the only one who NEVER looks at the lobby in an MTT i dont even keep it open at all. I dont know the payouts or how many people are left or anything like that EVER. It was just something i started doing after about a year. i really have no idea how many times ive bubbled or anything like that cause i NEVER look at anything. I can usually tell when im right around the bubble because of stallers, people talk in chat, or a pop up about hand for hand comes up. ( obviously i know rough payouts of 1st,2nd,3rd of the 3r and,5r ect.. but thats it). When its gets late ive been around enough to know roughly how many people are lefft and when we will be at the final table. My friends cant seems to get over this and say im making a big mistake and yada yada yadaa. I don't really care what they think cause they are all pretty bad. Am i doing something wrong here? I think knowing all that stuff just gets in the way and you can't play poker. It look so daunting after playing for 4 hours and still seeing over 1000 people left.

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I liked the rest of your post, but I disagree with some of this especially the bolded part. When I see people post graphs like this I typically recognize that the number of hands graphed is larger than the graphs they normally post and just feel that these people have a major problem with being able to quit loser and that this is a pretty big leak. You have to have a balance between thinking you are a beast and at the same time being able to recognize when you might not be playing your best while reevaluate parts of your game and/or moving down if it doesn't turn around. Too much attitude is not a good thing and I don't think its that important in the first place.
It all depends on where someone is at in the growth process. If someone is unable to recognize when they aren't playing well/tilting then obviously they shouldn't be playing a bunch of hands stuck. For people that do recognize that, are still playing well and can grind out of the hole, not only is the process character building but it sets you up mentally for the next day. Ending on a "positive" and going into the next day that way is great for your game. Don't mistake what I am saying as me saying you should never quit stuck because sometimes it gets to the point where you aren't playing well. Unlike most people I don't think there is an issue with playing more hands when stuck. Assuming you know how to quit when not playing well, I think taking those negative days by turning them into a positive by either grinding back to robusto or getting half your losses back or whatever is how I want to go to bed each night. Some of my most fulfilling days are days I am stuck 2k and end the day up 50 bucks. Having poker attitude may not be for everyone. I don't think that it's a coincidence that most people that I know that have it are big winners in their games though.
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I didn't want to make a thread about this, cause it isn't really worthy of a whole thread. But im curious about something.I have a few friends whole play online poker, some with some sucess some without. But ive known these friends in particular for a long time.Am I the only one who NEVER looks at the lobby in an MTT i dont even keep it open at all. I dont know the payouts or how many people are left or anything like that EVER. It was just something i started doing after about a year. i really have no idea how many times ive bubbled or anything like that cause i NEVER look at anything. I can usually tell when im right around the bubble because of stallers, people talk in chat, or a pop up about hand for hand comes up. ( obviously i know rough payouts of 1st,2nd,3rd of the 3r and,5r ect.. but thats it). When its gets late ive been around enough to know roughly how many people are lefft and when we will be at the final table. My friends cant seems to get over this and say im making a big mistake and yada yada yadaa. I don't really care what they think cause they are all pretty bad. Am i doing something wrong here? I think knowing all that stuff just gets in the way and you can't play poker. It look so daunting after playing for 4 hours and still seeing over 1000 people left.
In general yes. If you are NEVER looking at it, you are not capitalizing on very key spots of tournaments. Attacking the weak players on cash bubbles, payout jump bubbles, final table bubbles is one of the key concepts of tournament poker.
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In general yes. If you are NEVER looking at it, you are not capitalizing on very key spots of tournaments. Attacking the weak players on cash bubbles, payout jump bubbles, final table bubbles is one of the key concepts of tournament poker.
I feel like im doing all those things even more when i have it closed, and probably too much if anything. But you have a point too i guess i could be more precise with my moves. My main issuse is knowing the money i really hate knowing that.edit- and wow excuse the terrible grammar and typing in that last post. and this one for that matter
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I feel like im doing all those things even more when i have it closed, and probably too much if anything. But you have a point too i guess i could be more precise with my moves. My main issuse is knowing the money i really hate knowing that.edit- and wow excuse the terrible grammar and typing in that last post. and this one for that matter
But the money is really something you need to know because there are a ton of players that are going to have their decisions drastically affected by it. You need to be able to look at the money, payouts, bubbles, etc AND not have it affect you. It sounds like you think it is one or the other and it isn't.
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It all depends on where someone is at in the growth process. If someone is unable to recognize when they aren't playing well/tilting then obviously they shouldn't be playing a bunch of hands stuck. For people that do recognize that, are still playing well and can grind out of the hole, not only is the process character building but it sets you up mentally for the next day. Ending on a "positive" and going into the next day that way is great for your game. Don't mistake what I am saying as me saying you should never quit stuck because sometimes it gets to the point where you aren't playing well. Unlike most people I don't think there is an issue with playing more hands when stuck. Assuming you know how to quit when not playing well, I think taking those negative days by turning them into a positive by either grinding back to robusto or getting half your losses back or whatever is how I want to go to bed each night. Some of my most fulfilling days are days I am stuck 2k and end the day up 50 bucks. Having poker attitude may not be for everyone. I don't think that it's a coincidence that most people that I know that have it are big winners in their games though.
I think almost everybody plays worse when they are losing and most of those people still think they are playing as well as normal. I just think its a much better practice to find reasons to grind when your winning and find reasons to quit when your getting your head kicked in. And obviously everyone feels better at the end of the day after getting back to even after being stuck a ton, but your ignoring the times when you try to grind it back and just end up more in the hole.Also its more likely that people that are big winners in their games have a lot of confidence because they are successful and not the other way around.
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I am starting to worry that I am overplaying AK preflop for stacks...It seems that whenever my 4bet gets shoved on, and I have to call, it is QQ KK AA every time. I am really frustrated with myself because I am not sure if I am leaking or if I just am running into monsters.I'm wondering if this is because people are less likely to play for full stacks with less than AK at 25nl than at levels further up?Help with some thoughts?
I thought I'd add to this with more specific evidence.Out of the 7 times I have been all in preflop, I have been up against: QQ KK Q7 AA AA KK 99Help is still appreciated!!!
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I thought I'd add to this with more specific evidence.Out of the 7 times I have been all in preflop, I have been up against: QQ KK Q7 AA AA KK 99Help is still appreciated!!!
Don't get it in preflop vs nits.That'll be 5 dollars.
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Oh.No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownButton ($740.80)SB ($994.80)Hero (BB) ($412.40)UTG ($1639.95)MP ($280)Preflop: Hero is BB with J :D, J :4h2 folds, Button raises $14, 1 fold, Hero raises $42, Button raises $113, Hero raises $366.40 (All-In), Button calls $285.40Flop: ($826.80) Q :club:, 5 :5c, K :3h(2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: ($826.80) A :qh(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($826.80) 4 :D(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $826.80Results in white below: Button had 5 :D, 5 :ts (three of a kind, fives).Hero had J :jh, J :D (one pair, Jacks).Outcome: Button won $823.30

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I thought I'd add to this with more specific evidence.Out of the 7 times I have been all in preflop, I have been up against: QQ KK Q7 AA AA KK 99Help is still appreciated!!!
Add this opponent to your buddy list... Or reload to a full stack prior to the start of every hand.
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Add this opponent to your buddy list... Or reload to a full stack prior to the start of every hand.
Lol he was a random who just loved to open shove for no reason.Scary part was he flopped a 7, before I rivered A and KI am looking through those other 6 hands and I am going to get stats and positions of all of them.
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I think almost everybody plays worse when they are losing and most of those people still think they are playing as well as normal. I just think its a much better practice to find reasons to grind when your winning and find reasons to quit when your getting your head kicked in. And obviously everyone feels better at the end of the day after getting back to even after being stuck a ton, but your ignoring the times when you try to grind it back and just end up more in the hole.Also its more likely that people that are big winners in their games have a lot of confidence because they are successful and not the other way around.
Everyone certainly doesn't have to think like me and we would be in big trouble if they did. If someone has trouble not playing close to their A game when stuck then they shouldn't ever do that. If I am still +EV in the games I'm not going to quit just because I am stuck. I think there is a lot to be said ending each day as positively as possible. We can all take different routes to success.As for the second paragraph I have no doubts it works both ways. Confidence breeds success and success breeds confidence.
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I thought I'd add to this with more specific evidence.Out of the 7 times I have been all in preflop, I have been up against: QQ KK Q7 AA AA KK 99Help is still appreciated!!!
I lied about that 99 hand. Those above 6 were for 75% full stacks or more.
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You did kind of the same thing in the limit thread. You came in, really didn't attempt to lurk or read or do anything really, and immediately started pounding the thread with posts. Some were for discussion, some were bad beats. You answered other people's questions as though you expected your answers to hold merit despite you never beating any game for any winrate, and then complained when other people posted similar thoughts and theirs got noticed. You aren't entitled to just pop in here and immediately start asking tons of questions and get free advice after 2 days of posting in this thread. Everyone's hands and questions get ignored from time to time, it's a long thread with a lot of stuff that is all over the place. It seems like you are expecting everyone to help you learn how to win at poker while doing little or no work yourself. At the moment, I don't see you beating the game and I picture a ton of excuses as to why you couldn't do it afterwards. Slow down, take your time, both in this thread and with the game. A week, two weeks, a month of results doesn't mean anything.Sorry if this was too harsh, it's just kind of frustrating to see your own actions followed by a post like the above one.
The bolded's good...the other's somewhat unnecessarily harsh.First, it's rather an assumption to say that he didn't lurk. (He has been a member since 2005.) I'm relatively certain that he did read. While his initial style of just posting hands may've been slightly grating, we're pretty open about that stuff and helpfully guided him.He actually has been doing a ton of work with regard to studying and learning. I think that's at the root of why he came in here. And, he's been a winning player at the game in a live setting for many years.I do appreciate the guidance and patience that y'all are showing him, and I appreciate any further benefit of the doubt that you give him as he learns the ropes.Edit: I see that it has mostly been settled.
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Being confident in poker goes a really long way, just like it does in life. Poker is a bitch when things are going bad, but if you have the ability to remain confident during the downswings then you bounce back so much quicker. Being downright cocky is actually good in poker as long as you are still able to view your game objectively and make adjustments as the games continue to change.

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