New Challenge (old Challenge)

[RDog 0]

Mainly 50NL, about 700 hands at 25NL worth like -$35.

Sickness.

[simo_8ball 0]

i think c/c is fine, hard to say what he is raising...he can't have a ton of hands he is in love with so 3betting is never horrible. I think calling/re-eval is ok, as well is folding if you think he follows up turn a lot and youre going to just fold if he bets.

So, 3betting is ok, but so is calling. Or folding. Basically, whatever I do, I can't make a mistake. Gotcha. :)I know this is the kind of hand that requires different lines based on specific opponents and specific reads. Against some players folding the flop is a massive mistake, and against others investing another chip is a huge mistake. All I really know is he's very aggro in position. I know I'm ahead of his range here, but I just think the reverse implied odds are very significant.

[chgocubs99 0]

About time.

FYP

[Influcted 0]

Ok, what do you guys do when you are on some serious tilt? I've just lost every huge pair vs an underpair AIPF and some random shit like AK<K2 AIPF etc, what the fukc am I supposed to do? I really just want to take my roll and shortstack the highest possible limit.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

Ok, what do you guys do when you are on some serious tilt? I've just lost every huge pair vs an underpair AIPF and some random shit like AK<K2 AIPF etc, what the fukc am I supposed to do? I really just want to take my roll and shortstack the highest possible limit.

do it

[zander24 0]

Ok, what do you guys do when you are on some serious tilt? I've just lost every huge pair vs an underpair AIPF and some random shit like AK<K2 AIPF etc, what the fukc am I supposed to do? I really just want to take my roll and shortstack the highest possible limit.

Go for a jog. I have a punching bag i use regularly when playing poker

[Jordan 1]

So, 3betting is ok, but so is calling. Or folding. Basically, whatever I do, I can't make a mistake. Gotcha. :)I know this is the kind of hand that requires different lines based on specific opponents and specific reads. Against some players folding the flop is a massive mistake, and against others investing another chip is a huge mistake. All I really know is he's very aggro in position. I know I'm ahead of his range here, but I just think the reverse implied odds are very significant.

obviously if we know what he has, then folding may be a huge mistake, as could be calling....That's obvious.What reverse implied odds are you talking about? If you know you're ahead of is range, then put more money into the pot. Whether that's 3betting or call/eval turn, do it. There is no real hand we can 'hit' that gives off the reverse implied odds vibe, unless I"m just getting confused. I'll say, generally this deep people are 3betting you for a few reasons, which again is obvious. One, they have more fold equity on later streets and can bluff you much more easily. Two, they have a hand wanna build a pot. Three, they have a draw and may wanna stack off with it, yet this is where his raise gets confused cause raise/calling certain flush draws would be relatively questionable, no? To me, his raise size is indicative of all the options. Air, draw, big hand, which makes it very hard to comment on without knowing him or you, etc etc.Default I think is either fold flop, or call and see what he does on turn. If you 3bet, you're doing it for value and to stack off his draws or pick off his bluff raises. I'm never 3bet folding here which I think is pretty obvious.- Jordan

[Influcted 0]

Go for a jog. I have a punching bag i use regularly when playing poker

That's a good idea I guess. I'm down a keyboard and a mouse in 2 weeks.

[simo_8ball 0]

What reverse implied odds are you talking about? If you know you're ahead of is range, then put more money into the pot.

Sorry, I used the wrong term. It's not reverse implied odds.I mean, if his range is (for simplicity) sets or air, then realistically I either win the pot as it is, or I lose my stack. It's a 'win a little lose a lot' problem which means that despite being ahead of his flop raising range, it doesn't follow that I should put more money into the pot.

To me, his raise size is indicative of all the options. Air, draw, big hand, which makes it very hard to comment on without knowing him or you, etc etc.

Ya, that's the problem I had. Other than some datamined stats I have no idea how he plays.

Default I think is either fold flop, or call and see what he does on turn. If you 3bet, you're doing it for value and to stack off his draws or pick off his bluff raises. I'm never 3bet folding here which I think is pretty obvious.

I agree with all of that, and ya, 3betting makes it an obvious call of a shove.

[Painter567 0]

Agreed:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($27.05)Hero (SB) ($17.50)BB ($25)UTG ($23.30)MP ($18.55)Preflop: Hero is SB with K, KUTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, MP calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25Flop: ($7.50) 2, 8, 6(5 players)Hero bets $6, 1 fold, UTG raises to $21.80 (All-In), MP calls $17.05 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $10 (All-In)Turn: ($57.60) 8(3 players, 3 all-in)River: ($57.60) 10(3 players, 3 all-in)Total pot: $57.60 | Rake: $2Resultsbelow: Hero had KK (two pair, Kings and eights).UTG had 5, 7 (one pair, eights).MP had Q, 4 (one pair, eights).Outcome: Hero won $53.50, MP won $2.10

How did you hold against UTG?

[NoSup4U 0]

Don't worry because:

weeeeeeeeeeeeMark

[RDog 0]

Okay, so I get cute pre with Aces, hoping one of the stacks behind me shoves since they are huge monkeys. I made a mistake not raising the flop here I guess but moving along from that. I think the turn is a really crappy spot. Both Villains are solid regs. UTG is 19/17/4 and BB is definitely one of the better 200 regs who also plays 400 quite a bit, 22/18/3. UTG probably expects that if myself or BB had a set we would raise the flop which makes the turn card a great spot to bluff. BB's overcall on the flop really throws me off, I think he is tricky enough to do this with a set since most diamond draws I have on the flop I am raising so its unlikely he is protecting against much.I dunno, I really butchered the hand.Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG: $250.15Hero (MP): $203.35CO: $45.85BTN: $19.00SB: $89.00BB: $200.00Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is MP with A A UTG raises to $7, Hero calls $7, 3 folds, BB calls $5Flop: ($22.00) 4 T 5 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14, BB calls $14Turn: ($64.00) K (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $40, Hero ???

[NoSup4U 0]

Okay, so I get cute pre with Aces, hoping one of the stacks behind me shoves since they are huge monkeys. I made a mistake not raising the flop here I guess but moving along from that. I think the turn is a really crappy spot. Both Villains are solid regs. UTG is 19/17/4 and BB is definitely one of the better 200 regs who also plays 400 quite a bit, 22/18/3. UTG probably expects that if myself or BB had a set we would raise the flop which makes the turn card a great spot to bluff. BB's overcall on the flop really throws me off, I think he is tricky enough to do this with a set since most diamond draws I have on the flop I am raising so its unlikely he is protecting against much.I dunno, I really butchered the hand.Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG: $250.15Hero (MP): $203.35CO: $45.85BTN: $19.00SB: $89.00BB: $200.00Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is MP with A A UTG raises to $7, Hero calls $7, 3 folds, BB calls $5Flop: ($22.00) 4 T 5 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14, BB calls $14Turn: ($64.00) K (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $40, Hero ???

I raise flop and stack off there, don't mind the flat pf at all. I call the turn and fold if the bb shoves, and call a non shove bet from utg on any non diamond river. UTG could easily have AK here or QQ (or air still) if he's smart enough to bet that still on the turn.Mark

[simo_8ball 0]

Okay, so I get cute pre with Aces, hoping one of the stacks behind me shoves since they are huge monkeys. I made a mistake not raising the flop here I guess but moving along from that. I think the turn is a really crappy spot. Both Villains are solid regs. UTG is 19/17/4 and BB is definitely one of the better 200 regs who also plays 400 quite a bit, 22/18/3. UTG probably expects that if myself or BB had a set we would raise the flop which makes the turn card a great spot to bluff. BB's overcall on the flop really throws me off, I think he is tricky enough to do this with a set since most diamond draws I have on the flop I am raising so its unlikely he is protecting against much.I dunno, I really butchered the hand.Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG: $250.15Hero (MP): $203.35CO: $45.85BTN: $19.00SB: $89.00BB: $200.00Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is MP with A A UTG raises to $7, Hero calls $7, 3 folds, BB calls $5Flop: ($22.00) 4 T 5 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14, BB calls $14Turn: ($64.00) K (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $40, Hero ???

I think it's a pretty easy call. Folding is way too weak, and raising really represents a bigger hand than aces.There's some value to raising/shoving to protect against draws, but IMO you lose a lot of value against weaker made hands by doing that.edit:

I raise flop and stack off there, don't mind the flat pf at all.

^^^This too

[Jordan 1]

Okay, so I get cute pre with Aces, hoping one of the stacks behind me shoves since they are huge monkeys. I made a mistake not raising the flop here I guess but moving along from that. I think the turn is a really crappy spot. Both Villains are solid regs. UTG is 19/17/4 and BB is definitely one of the better 200 regs who also plays 400 quite a bit, 22/18/3. UTG probably expects that if myself or BB had a set we would raise the flop which makes the turn card a great spot to bluff. BB's overcall on the flop really throws me off, I think he is tricky enough to do this with a set since most diamond draws I have on the flop I am raising so its unlikely he is protecting against much.I dunno, I really butchered the hand.Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG: $250.15Hero (MP): $203.35CO: $45.85BTN: $19.00SB: $89.00BB: $200.00Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is MP with A A UTG raises to $7, Hero calls $7, 3 folds, BB calls $5Flop: ($22.00) 4 T 5 (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14, BB calls $14Turn: ($64.00) K (3 players)BB checks, UTG bets $40, Hero ???

I think this is a pretty interesting spot...but not a bad one. I mean, yea you took diff lines but IMO I can't see myself not raising turn no. BB looks like he is on a draw and I doubt UTG is betting total air into two others, but don't see why you wouldn't want to put more money in the pot at this point. Your hand is way under repped and UTG doesnt have to be polarized to KK/TT or any other set. He could have KJdd KQdd AKdd, as well as Kx's that cbet flop and now improved. I pretty happily stick it in, and if I tarped myself, well that sucks.But I don't think you got overly tricky here. I agree with normally raising the flop (to almost always)...but once you get to turn this way I'm pretty much happy to get stacks in.- Jordan

[Jordan 1]

I guess I was in the raise turn to get BB off a draw camp, if he is on one, or get UTG to stack big diamonds (which may have also hit the K) that he may quit on the river (or get there for cheap and we're put in a weird spot if a diamond rivers and he bets it, it's a fold for sure at that point, but still weird).I see where calling turn is coming from, but I think both calling/raising turn are viable. I can't decide which I like better, but I'm personally leaning towards raise. Maybe I'm just a HU donk - Jordan

[simo_8ball 0]

I guess I was in the raise turn to get BB off a draw camp, if he is on one, or get UTG to stack big diamonds (which may have also hit the K) that he may quit on the river (or get there for cheap and we're put in a weird spot if a diamond rivers and he bets it, it's a fold for sure at that point, but still weird).I see where calling turn is coming from, but I think both calling/raising turn are viable. I can't decide which I like better, but I'm personally leaning towards raise. Maybe I'm just a HU donk - Jordan

I guess my only real problem with a turn raise is that it looks so strong. Are we really representing (and do we ever have) a worse hand? With BB behind left to act, would we want to raise with a draw on the turn?

[Jordan 1]

I guess I'm just not looking at it at the level you are. I think we are underrepped, if we raise it's really weird cause utg going to have a hard time putting us on a hand (looks like we'd take this line w/ a set sometimes)...but we still have AA and I think still get UTG to stack off with the few hands I listed above. IDK, maybe I'm just too stuck in a HU mind set, but whenever I'm underrepped I usually try to put more $ in the pot. Not saying this exact spot is the best spot to do it (and why I'd raise flop almost every time) but I don't think we have to flat here for some of the reasons you listed, although they are def. valid.I'm prob just a monkey though and am thinking a lil' too much from a HU perspective. If the pot is HU I'm assuming our action is much more cut and dry.- Jordan

[NoSup4U 0]

One thing about raising the turn is that it commits you, when you could be drawing dead or either of the other two guys in the hand could have a reasonable amount of equity vs you if they continue. Maybe we can push BB off a naked flush draw, but probably not a hand like QJd. I dunno, raising turn might be better. I think this would come down to what I think BB's range is here.Mark

[RDog 0]

One thing about raising the turn is that it commits you, when you could be drawing dead or either of the other two guys in the hand could have a reasonable amount of equity vs you if they continue. Maybe we can push BB off a naked flush draw, but probably not a hand like QJd. I dunno, raising turn might be better. I think this would come down to what I think BB's range is here.Mark

Yeah, I mean, this was my main problem with raising the turn is I think BB can have a set a decent amount of the time. His hand for sure is sets and flush draws and not really much else. My hand looks like something like 99 or JJ so I doubt he is overcalling without a draw or a hand that doesn't beat that.

[Gallo 1]

LOL @ chatFull Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$44 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $475Button: $380.30NoSup4U: $450BB: $1165.25Pre-flop: (4 players) NoSup4U is SB with 2 folds, NoSup4U raises to $12, BB calls.Flop: ($24, 2 players)NoSup4U bets $16, BB raises to $32, NoSup4U raises to $108, BB calls.Turn: ($240, 2 players)NoSup4U checks, BB checks.River: ($240, 2 players)NoSup4U checks, BB bets $45, NoSup4U raises to $240BB: are you fckn serious?NoSup4U: no club?BB calls.Results:Final pot: $720NoSup4U showed Ac KcBB mucks Qc 5dBB: fck youBB: I quitNoSup4U: i was serious!!!BB: fckn chasing donkMark

Mark you are my mostest favoritest poker player. Love your table talk!!

[Acid_Knight 2]

Great start to the day. Played one of my favorite opponents at 2/4, who ran well and beat me for a little.Then I played this guy at 3/6. He is apparently popular because there was a waiting list. He ran really really good, but was mindbogglingly stupid.Here are some hands.http://www.pokerhand.org/?3382141Of course, when a donk makes a play like this and they're really deep, they instaquit.http://www.pokerhand.org/?3382168You'd think that A high would be considered no good at some point. I guess I was wrong.http://www.pokerhand.org/?3382169Nice float. Of course I value bet 2nd pair since he calls down with any pair and A high constantly.http://www.pokerhand.org/?3382176This was earlier in the match. I knew he was a bit stationy and my river shove was for value. I got 2 outered for my stack. I was still probably shoving, but there's a chance that he would've folded a 5x hand.

[king1305 0]

I like that you question the mental capacities of everyone but the guy that 4bet with 95o.

I figure you at least have the mental capacity to formulate a reason why you did that. I would imagine they are something more along the lines of, "OMG I HAS A PAIR I HAS TO GETS THE MONIES ALL INZ!!!!!"

[king1305 0]

graph that goes \

[ ] Listens to new TI.

[Veener Schnitz 0]

villain 41/17/7.0 over 30 hands so all i can assume is that he's a pretty weak player thus far after seeing him limp call a few timesFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($9.70)CO ($25)Button ($43.55)Hero (SB) ($26)BB ($25)UTG ($45.05)Preflop: Hero is SB with , UTG raises to $0.85, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.80, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.95Flop: ($5.85) , , (2 players)Hero bets $4.50, UTG raises to $9, Hero ????______________my 3rd hand after sitting down at the table. villain is unknown.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($25)MP ($25.35)Hero (Button) ($25)SB ($46.40)BB ($60.25)Preflop: Hero is Button with , UTG raises to $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.90, 2 folds, UTG raises to $11, Hero ???