New Challenge (old Challenge)

[king1305 0]

I did just browse before but I fully understand where you're coming from and I as I don't wish to drive the good guys out I'll slow down. Apologies for lowering the tone. The thread looks so warm from the outside, but in reality it's bloody hard to get into. Does make sense though. What is worthy of a post by a noob in here?

Sonnets, Haikus, Limericks, etc.

[bull62 0]

I did just browse before but I fully understand where you're coming from and I as I don't wish to drive the good guys out I'll slow down. I got a bit over enthusiastic. Apologies for lowering the tone. The thread looks so warm from the outside, but in reality it's bloody hard to get into. Does make sense though. What is worthy of a post by a noob in here?

For the month of December, I've decided to switch almost exclusively to cash games. Sort of a trial run for some fairly aggressive goals I've set for 2008. So I'd definitely like to get involved in this thread. Just wondering what is customary as far as posting here. (This thread is almost like it's own forum). Brag? Beats? Strat? General bs?Don't want to step on any toes, y'know.

[Suited_Up 2]

good idea. then you can post a haiku and take a quiz.

Beat me to it.

[AcesOnFire 0]

Thanks Bull. I have a strat question:Villan is 20/17/5 over 70, loose, but is a winning player and had called quite a few of my 3-bets. This is a situation I find myself in all too often.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($31.85)Button ($31.30)Hero (SB) ($38.15)BB ($7.25)UTG ($11.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, JUTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP calls $3.25Flop: ($9) 10, 9, Q(2 players)Hero bets $6.50,What do we do if the turn bricks against different kinds of players? How about if the turn is an ace?Also, what do we put the villan on here? I can't think of a hand where it wouldn't be standard to atleast standard to see a turn?Hope this is some kind of decent contribution.

[Gallo 1]

Attn: All retarded posters that have popped up lately (the sad part is you might not know you you are), read more/post less here. You are driving away everyone from this thread that made it useful/helpful/unique. Lately they have been absent and you have been present. Easy math. TY

Glad to see someone else posted the "challenge thread is dead" update for this week so I didn't have to.To add to that, if you don't post here often and no one knows/cares who you are, updates on your daily non-poker life probably don't need to be posted either, nor do you random observations on anything that pops into your head. Also comments ripping on thread regulars when no one knows who you are with a afterwards probably aren't funny either. But maybe that one is just me.

I know when I'm not wanted.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

re posting in this thread, I read the entire thread and then just lurked and kept track of it for quite a while thereafter. As mostly a tournament player, I never really had anything to contribute but im never going to pass up on the opportunity to read and learn from some of the best player's on these forums. Its always been the first place I visit when i log into the forums. I played 25nl a few months ago to try it out and I posted graphs and the occasional hand or 2 as well... this month Im posting a little more often (along wiht the occasional jab at king1305... but its so easyyyy)What im tryign to say is that reading this thread is 1000x better for you newer guys than posting in it. I would actually suggest reading this thread to everyone on these forums... and for those that dont they're missing out bigtime imo.ps. i hope the regs in here dont hate me too much.

[Giggidy 0]

Villan is 20/17/5 over 70, loose, but is a winning player and had called quite a few of my 3-bets. This is a situation I find myself in all too often.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($31.85)Button ($31.30)Hero (SB) ($38.15)BB ($7.25)UTG ($11.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, JUTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP calls $3.25Flop: ($9) 10, 9, Q(2 players)Hero bets $6.50, 1 foldTotal pot: $9 | Rake: $0.45Results in white below: Hero didn't showOutcome: Hero won $8.55I took this town but is my bet correct? and what do we do if the turn bricks against different kinds of players? How about if the turn is an ace?Also, what do we put the villan on here?

Looks ok to me - PF raise is a little larger than normal AIR, bt if he's been calling lots then fair enoughYou should be able to to get an idea of what his range is better than us if you've seen him showdown hands he seems to be calling light with - fwiw 20/17 isn't loose it's fairly TAGIf he's competant his UTG range should be tight, any PP, possibly a suited connector, AJs, AQo+

[bull62 0]

Thanks Bull. I have a strat question:Villan is 20/17/5 over 70, loose, but is a winning player and had called quite a few of my 3-bets. This is a situation I find myself in all too often.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($31.85)Button ($31.30)Hero (SB) ($38.15)BB ($7.25)UTG ($11.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, JUTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP calls $3.25Flop: ($9) 10, 9, Q(2 players)Hero ?????

fyp. I'm trying to help buy you're making it difficult. Don't post results. Get opinions on the hand then you can start asking about hypotheticals. Also, 20/17/5 is not loose. Solidly TAG.I probably play it the same. Villain most likely had a small pair.

[Jordan 1]

rly like this hand. was cool considering the game flow around itFull Tilt Poker Game #8594496050: Table Lien (heads up) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:39:25 ET - 2008/10/21Seat 1: marcopolo28 ($2,052)Seat 2: GIFT_4_YOU ($2,309.50)GIFT_4_YOU posts the small blind of $5marcopolo28 posts the big blind of $10The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GIFT_4_YOU [Ad Kh]GIFT_4_YOU raises to $20marcopolo28 calls $10*** FLOP *** [As 4c 8d]marcopolo28 bets $30GIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU raises to $120marcopolo28 calls $90*** TURN *** [As 4c 8d] [6h]marcopolo28 checksGIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU bets $220marcopolo28 calls $220*** RIVER *** [As 4c 8d 6h] [5s]marcopolo28 checksGIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU bets $470marcopolo28 calls $470*** SHOW DOWN ***GIFT_4_YOU shows [Ad Kh] a pair of Acesmarcopolo28 mucksGIFT_4_YOU wins the pot ($1,659.50) with a pair of Aces*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $1,660 | Rake $0.50Board: [As 4c 8d 6h 5s]Seat 1: marcopolo28 (big blind) mucked [9h Ah] - a pair of AcesSeat 2: GIFT_4_YOU (small blind) showed [Ad Kh] and won ($1,659.50) with a pair of Aces

[Merby 3]

Glad to see someone else posted the "challenge thread is dead" update for this week so I didn't have to.To add to that, if you don't post here often and no one knows/cares who you are, updates on your daily non-poker life probably don't need to be posted either, nor do you random observations on anything that pops into your head. Also comments ripping on thread regulars when no one knows who you are with a afterwards probably aren't funny either. But maybe that one is just me.

1) So I got some new shoes last weekend. A pair of Clarks:My old pair of shoes looked similar and were super comfortable, but they had started squeaking whenever I walked (even if I was walking on carpet). Hence, it was time for a new pair.2) I randomly observed a cloud the other day. It was shaped like a cheese soufflé which has been sitting on the counter for too long:3) NoSup4U cannot tell the difference between butter and I can't believe it's not butter --true story.

[cwik 0]

rly like this hand. was cool considering the game flow around itFull Tilt Poker Game #8594496050: Table Lien (heads up) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:39:25 ET - 2008/10/21Seat 1: marcopolo28 ($2,052)Seat 2: GIFT_4_YOU ($2,309.50)GIFT_4_YOU posts the small blind of $5marcopolo28 posts the big blind of $10The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to GIFT_4_YOU [Ad Kh]GIFT_4_YOU raises to $20marcopolo28 calls $10*** FLOP *** [As 4c 8d]marcopolo28 bets $30GIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU raises to $120marcopolo28 calls $90*** TURN *** [As 4c 8d] [6h]marcopolo28 checksGIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU bets $220marcopolo28 calls $220*** RIVER *** [As 4c 8d 6h] [5s]marcopolo28 checksGIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to actGIFT_4_YOU bets $470marcopolo28 calls $470*** SHOW DOWN ***GIFT_4_YOU shows [Ad Kh] a pair of Acesmarcopolo28 mucksGIFT_4_YOU wins the pot ($1,659.50) with a pair of Aces*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $1,660 | Rake $0.50Board: [As 4c 8d 6h 5s]Seat 1: marcopolo28 (big blind) mucked [9h Ah] - a pair of AcesSeat 2: GIFT_4_YOU (small blind) showed [Ad Kh] and won ($1,659.50) with a pair of Aces

so what you are saying is you missed out on about $250 in value for not raising 3x BB pf?

[psujohn 0]

Disagree with this, this is a chop a huge, huge portion of the time, and the times you win/lose cancel each other out, making it an easy mathematical call IMO. How many 56/20's would pot a turn with the case six?

Yeah my first reaction was why the hell are we folding this when we chop at worst. But I think we may actually win this outright significantly more often than we lose. -EV fold imho (against this villain).

[cwik 0]

any really bad luckgraphs to see?

Cwik?

I'm gonna stay out of this, as there is no reason to get depressed this early in the day. I have't even started drinking yet.

[Jordan 1]

so what you are saying is you missed out on about $250 in value for not raising 3x BB pf?

well, 100bb deep he didn't start calling pf till i started min raising pre.Could prob go back to 3x pre tho 200bb deep +

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

fyp. I'm trying to help buy you're making it difficult. Don't post results. Get opinions on the hand then you can start asking about hypotheticals. Also, 20/17/5 is not loose. Solidly TAG.I probably play it the same. Villain most likely had a small pair.

I think this is important. My stats are pretty close to this after I made a few recent adjustments. Over the weekend I was called a loose maniac retard and a complete predictable nit at the same on two tables. I had probably been at both tables less than 100 hands and I have a hard time believing that my stats were notably different on either table (cake does not allow HUDs, so noone could peg this either way). On both tables, I had shown down only a few hands, but my raising range was the same on both. The difference was which hands in my opening range were getting to showdown.On the first table, I had gotten to showdown once with suited connectors I had button raised over a limper or two, and once with a small pp I had opened. Both hands got to showdown against big aces where I had flopped big and won some big pots at showdown. On the second table, I was opening exactly the same type of hands, playing pretty much the same, but it happenned that the hands of mine that got to showdown were a big pair and big suited aces. I was showing aggression on both tables, and without a HUD, people thought I was playing looser on 1 than on 2. It seems like you're making this same common perfecption "mistake" that people with less data than you make. You have the numbers right there to prove that he's either actually TAG and you've just happenned to see the "balancing" part of his range, or the less likely, he actually is LAG and he's just had ridiculously bad cards for the last small sample and is playing anything remotely playable, tricking your stats into looking TAG. As you log more and more hands, make notes on the regs about what their specific opening ranges are. TAG does not just mean "Big pairs, big aces, etc" and as bull said, those are very tag stats (so far, yes, over a small sample).If Rdog doesn't have me on ignore i'd love to hear if i'm way off base here.

[Giggidy 0]

2) I randomly observed a cloud the other day. It was shaped like a cheese soufflé which has been sitting on the counter for too long:

Your cheese souffle cloud reminded me more of a monkfishToo tired to play poker, wish i wasn't

[Giggidy 0]

TAG does not just mean "Big pairs, big aces, etc" and as bull said, those are very tag stats (so far, yes, over a small sample).

True enough - however if someone has similar stats to yourself, is it not reasonable to assume that they open similar ranges in a vacuum, otherwise how are we judging ranges?

[BeaverStyle 1]

re posting in this thread, I read the entire thread and then just lurked and kept track of it for quite a while thereafter. As mostly a tournament player, I never really had anything to contribute but im never going to pass up on the opportunity to read and learn from some of the best player's on these forums. Its always been the first place I visit when i log into the forums. I played 25nl a few months ago to try it out and I posted graphs and the occasional hand or 2 as well... this month Im posting a little more often (along wiht the occasional jab at king1305... but its so easyyyy)What im tryign to say is that reading this thread is 1000x better for you newer guys than posting in it. I would actually suggest reading this thread to everyone on these forums... and for those that dont they're missing out bigtime imo.ps. i hope the regs in here dont hate me too much.

This is why I'm lurking this thread all the time. Obviously you players who post here w/ results do so to discuss hands and compare results, as well as boosting each others morales, but us micro players really appreciate a look into the mind of successful poker players.

[bull62 0]

Two things:1. Today is pissing me off.2. Peanut Butter Double Stuf Oreos are the nuts.

[whatgreatis 0]

Attn: All retarded posters that have popped up lately (the sad part is you might not know you you are), read more/post less here. You are driving away everyone from this thread that made it useful/helpful/unique. Lately they have been absent and you have been present. Easy math. TY

Sighhhh. I'll pack my things.

[whatgreatis 0]

Sighhhh. I'll pack my things.

Brag: I have a winrate of 7bb/100 at 50nlBeat: Only over like 6k handsVarience: Here I come 100nl

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

True enough - however if someone has similar stats to yourself, is it not reasonable to assume that they open similar ranges in a vacuum, otherwise how are we judging ranges?

by yourself do you mean me or you? i take pretty extensive notes when i'm playing, especially about PF hand ranges. I try to make a note every time i trade a stack with someone who is buying full, and often on big hands i'm not involved in. for you I was just expounding on why i think you might be making a mistake thinking about someone as loose with stats that are very typical solid tag. I assign someone with those stats the same range bull did typically until I'm shown differently.

[empythree 0]

I don't know why there isn't plenty of room in this thread for all types of people(new and old)? I guess sincerity won't always win over some sort of weird thread jealousy. I have been lurking fcp for years now, and never felt the need for e-friends but have recently posted b/c it's nice to get in the conversation every once and a while. I honestly think the real contributors of this thread aren't the ones acting so condescending to others. People like Brett and Trevor whom I've corresponded with on occasion, really show me that compassion for others must have good karma or something. They seem to really be doing well in poker and in life. Jordan really sticks out in my mind as a real leader, who from what I've read never berates anyone no matter how new or dumb they are. I think when Jordan committed to go to Africa for a brief period of time really set the tone of his character. I also appreciate Nosup4u as well, as he seems to be a genuinely good person. As for me, I started applying myself to poker in Mid-May with $100 in my PS account. As of now, I am almost ready for that big leap into the 1-2$nl range which has been my goal from the start. This challenge thread is a major contributor to my slow but steady success. I look forward to the days I can ask questions about $2-4nl/$3-6nl games. Thank you for those who contribute positively to this thread.*edit..

[Lrgetrout 1]

Villan is 20/17/5 over 70, a winning player and had called quite a few of my 3-bets. This is a situation I find myself in all too often.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($31.85)Button ($31.30)Hero (SB) ($38.15)BB ($7.25)UTG ($11.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, JUTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP calls $3.25Flop: ($9) 10, 9, Q(2 players)Hero ??

I like the presented $6.50 line just fine. Though my pre-flop 3 bet is typically about $3 here (too small?), which would make my flop bet about $5.50 instead.If I could, I'd like to steal this hand and expand on it. (Villain is the same 20/17/3.)PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($31.85)Button ($31.30)Hero (SB) ($38.15)BB ($7.25)UTG ($11.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, JUTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, MP calls $3.25Flop: ($9) 10, 9, Q (2 players)Hero bets $6.50, MP calls.Turn: ($22) 2(2 players)Hero ???Also, on a brick river, do we c/f, push, or what?(Sorry, I can't get the first color tag to display correctly.)

[Jordan 1]

i understand and agree w/ a good deal of what you're saying...but as far as facts go. I won 30k the month before I went to Africa :)Had I won or lost money, I was going either way. Prior to that month, I had been on a decent downswing though.- Jordan