New Challenge (old Challenge)

[bull62 0]

So I ran about 3 bi below equity yesterday. I think I may have been due for a bad run though. Here's my last week or so.

[king1305 0]

There are several people here that are gayascanbe.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Suited_Up 2]

Made $320 at the casino this morning in 3 hours. Left before my luck went bad.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

lol, trying to luring NL holdem players into your web.

no, my point is that it's very hard for people to get on or ahead of the curve in NLHE as the games continue to get tougher at most levels. You have tons of training sites, books, etc. and so many regs that finding actual fish isn't as easy as it used to be. I've taught several people on the forums various non-HE games who've met with quite a bit of success because in general, the curve in many non-he games is so much lower that it's easier to get ahead of. Whether you're doing it to keep your mind fresh when HE seems like a crazy grind, or to try and make serious money at, learning multiple games is a really good idea. I have no expectations of anyone multitabling HORSE and PLO with me, nor is it my intention to get more clueless people into my games so I can take money from you guys. The non-HE games are full of them already. I just think it's a good idea to learn more games and I'm here to help if anyone wants to start down that path.I wish i had the exact HH at work, but last night at 5-10 HORSE, a guy capped a KsQs4x flop with me with A 3 4 6 (no spades) in omaha 8 and went 3 more bets on the turn when the 8s fell. That kind of stuff is COMMON.

[RDog 0]

Poker is fun for everyone.......PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button ($337.90)SB ($281.20)BB ($200)Hero ($210.25)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q. Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BB raises to $36, Hero raises to $208, BB calls $164 (All-In).Flop: ($409) 2, J, 6(2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: ($409) 8(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($409) T(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $401Results in white below: BB has Th Jh (two pair, jacks and tens). Hero has Qd Qh (one pair, queens). Outcome: BB wins $401.

[Suited_Up 2]

WEEEEEEEE Cubs 3rd Inning!

[RDog 0]

God this is so ****ing grooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. This guy keeps jamming or calling all in pre and continually reloading. He has shown up J5, JT, K2. Everyone else is stacking him. The 2 times I get it all in pre with him is my QQ against his JT and he wins then I get AJ in against him and of course he has ****ing Kings.

[RDog 0]

**** THIS!!!!

[cwik 0]

I would like to pay $1,000,000 in taxes.

If you stop paying them now, it could come sooner then you think.

[RDog 0]

Awesome, took 400 from me and redistributed that along with 600 of his own to the rest of the table. I also got stacked by another donk cause he decided to flat my 3 bet iso of the humongo donk with A6s when I flopped an overpair and gutshot straight flush draw while he flopped the Ace high flush.

[Veener Schnitz 0]

weeeeee August is my friend againFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownUTG ($6.05)MP ($4.25)Button ($15.05)Hero ($10.70)BB ($10.50)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.35, 1 fold, MP raises to $4.25 (All-In), Hero calls $2.90.Flop: ($8.60) , , (2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: ($8.60) (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($8.60) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $8.60Main Pot: $8.60, between MP and Hero. > Pot won by Hero ($8.60).Results in white below: MP has Ac Kc (one pair, threes). Hero has Kd Ks (two pair, kings and threes). Outcome: Hero wins $8.60. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($9.85)SB ($13.25)BB ($12.25)UTG ($3.65)MP ($5.70)CO ($13.10)Preflop: Hero is Button with , . 1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.45, 2 folds, MP calls $0.35.Flop: ($1.50) , , (3 players)MP checks, CO bets $2.4, Hero raises to $9.4 (All-In), MP folds, CO calls $7.Turn: ($20.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($20.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $20.30Main Pot: $20.30, between Hero and CO. > Pot won by Hero ($20.30).Results in white below: CO has Qd Jd (straight, queen high). Hero has Td Th (full house, tens full of nines). Outcome: Hero wins $20.30. How's my bet sizing on the river here? Should I just shove?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($15.25)BB ($10)UTG ($11.70)MP ($8.40)CO ($10)Button ($12.75)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . UTG raises to $0.2, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold.Flop: ($0.50) , , (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $0.4, Hero calls $0.40.Turn: ($1.30) (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $0.9, Hero raises to $3.5, UTG calls $2.60.River: ($8.30) (3 players)Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6.Final Pot: $20.30Main Pot: $20.30, between Hero, UTG and CO. > Pot won by Hero ($20.30).Results in white below: Hero has 5d 5s (three of a kind, fives). UTG doesn't show. CO doesn't show. Outcome: Hero wins $20.30. Villain is 54/30/8 through about 80 hands. Standard fold right?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownMP ($5.10)CO ($3.35)Button ($5.80)SB ($10)Hero ($10)UTG ($9.45)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . UTG posts a blind of $0.1. MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP raises to $2.8, Hero ??????

[RDog 0]

Different table, different fish, these are within 5 hands.......PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($205.95)UTG ($96.35)Hero ($200)Button ($80.55)SB ($201.80)Preflop: Hero is MP with A, A. UTG raises to $16, Hero calls $16, 3 folds.Flop: ($35) J, K, 3(2 players)UTG bets $26, Hero raises to $184, UTG calls $54.35 (All-In).Turn: ($299.35) 2(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($299.35) 5(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $195.70Results in white below: UTG has Jd Kd (two pair, kings and jacks). Hero has Ad Ah (one pair, aces). Outcome: UTG wins $195.70.

[RDog 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG ($202.95)MP ($193.70)Hero ($200)SB ($81.55)BB ($200.80)Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A. 1 fold, MP raises to $28, Hero calls $28, 2 folds.Flop: ($59) 7, T, T(2 players)MP bets $44, Hero calls $44.Turn: ($147) J(2 players)MP checks, Hero checks.River: ($147) 5(2 players)MP bets $121.7 (All-In), Hero calls $121.70.Final Pot: $390.40Results in white below: MP has Js Jc (full house, jacks full of tens). Hero has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and tens). Outcome: MP wins $390.40.

[BeaverStyle 1]

Rdog, when do you win hands?GL in august... hopefully things turn around.

[Metternich 0]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($9.85)SB ($13.25)BB ($12.25)UTG ($3.65)MP ($5.70)CO ($13.10)Preflop: Hero is Button with , . 1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.45, 2 folds, MP calls $0.35.Flop: ($1.50) , , (3 players)MP checks, CO bets $2.4, Hero raises to $9.4 (All-In), MP folds, CO calls $7.Turn: ($20.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($20.30) (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $20.30Main Pot: $20.30, between Hero and CO. > Pot won by Hero ($20.30).Results in white below: CO has Qd Jd (straight, queen high). Hero has Td Th (full house, tens full of nines). Outcome: Hero wins $20.30. How's my bet sizing on the river here? Should I just shove?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($15.25)BB ($10)UTG ($11.70)MP ($8.40)CO ($10)Button ($12.75)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . UTG raises to $0.2, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold.Flop: ($0.50) , , (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $0.4, Hero calls $0.40.Turn: ($1.30) (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $0.9, Hero raises to $3.5, UTG calls $2.60.River: ($8.30) (3 players)Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6.Final Pot: $20.30Main Pot: $20.30, between Hero, UTG and CO. > Pot won by Hero ($20.30).Results in white below: Hero has 5d 5s (three of a kind, fives). UTG doesn't show. CO doesn't show. Outcome: Hero wins $20.30. Villain is 54/30/8 through about 80 hands. Standard fold right?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownMP ($5.10)CO ($3.35)Button ($5.80)SB ($10)Hero ($10)UTG ($9.45)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . UTG posts a blind of $0.1. MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP raises to $2.8, Hero ??????

I like a 3-bet preflop with TT OTB.Think the bet sizing on the turned set is fine, but it looks like it might be .15 more to put him all in, so I might just do that. If he's calling 6 he's calling AI and there's a small chance that a bet that left him a tiny bit behind could look like some kind of weird value play and he might be more inclined to fold.On the 3rd hand I don't think any play is really awful, he's a pretty loose player. I don't hate a fold, but I wouldn't mind seeing a flop either.

[Citizen Erased 0]

Villain is 54/30/8 through about 80 hands. Standard fold right?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownMP ($5.10)CO ($3.35)Button ($5.80)SB ($10)Hero ($10)UTG ($9.45)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . UTG posts a blind of $0.1. MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP raises to $2.8, Hero ??????

You noted UTG sucks, didn't you?As for this, it depends how good you are post-flop. TT will see an over-card 70% of the time so probably not the bet idea to flop yourself an overpair . If you're good post-flop, you can try and outplay him, but just don't be playing solely for set value. You could shove here, but I'm more inclined towards folding in this instance.

[Giggidy 0]

It appears teh doomswitch isn't exclusive to poker, so tempted to tilt off my BR right now..

[Citizen Erased 0]

It appears teh doomswitch isn't exclusive to poker, so tempted to tilt off my BR right now..

Please don't.Hope things sort themselves out, man.

[BellaireDrew 2]

Please don't.Hope things sort themselves out, man.

[Merby 3]

Villain is 54/30/8 through about 80 hands. Standard fold right?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)saw flop|saw showdownMP ($5.10)CO ($3.35)Button ($5.80)SB ($10)Hero ($10)UTG ($9.45)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . UTG posts a blind of $0.1. MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP raises to $2.8, Hero ??????

On the 3rd hand I don't think any play is really awful, he's a pretty loose player. I don't hate a fold, but I wouldn't mind seeing a flop either.

You noted UTG sucks, didn't you?As for this, it depends how good you are post-flop. TT will see an over-card 70% of the time so probably not the bet idea to flop yourself an overpair . If you're good post-flop, you can try and outplay him, but just don't be playing solely for set value. You could shove here, but I'm more inclined towards folding in this instance.

I think it's important to notice that MP has put over half his stack in the pot already. He's already pot committed with all the other money in there, anyway --he may not realize that yet, but as soon as he is facing a bet or raise, he is going to be facing 4:1 pot odds and (should) call. Add to that the fact that he acts first on the flop and will most likely just push all in, and you should realize that this hand will have zero post-flop play. This is an all in or fold preflop decision and I think both options are fine in this situation. Due to his super-LAG stats (50/34/8), I am happy pushing here.

[Suited_Up 2]

You noted UTG sucks, didn't you?As for this, it depends how good you are post-flop. TT will see an over-card 70% of the time so probably not the bet idea to flop yourself an overpair . If you're good post-flop, you can try and outplay him, but just don't be playing solely for set value. You could shove here, but I'm more inclined towards folding in this instance.

Oh man, it's only $1.50, how you don't call, I do not know. I'll be writing a book.

[albertoflamingo 0]

I think for the TT hand I just fold. Even a monkey has a hand sometime and I'm sure you can find much better spots to get your money against him. You can avoid a lot of marginal situations in microstakes and wait for much more profitable spots to put your money in. I knew that 10 NL on FTP had double rake but I didn't even realize the extent of it mathematically, on twoplustwo there's a thread that says that the rake takes 7.75bb/100 hands from your winrate so take some shots if you can imo.

[Metternich 0]

I think for the TT hand I just fold. Even a monkey has a hand sometime and I'm sure you can find much better spots to get your money against him. You can avoid a lot of marginal situations in microstakes and wait for much more profitable spots to put your money in.

This is faulty thinking, it confuses tournament strategy with cash game play. Assuming we're properly rolled to handle variance we aren't looking to get our money in only in "the best spots", we want to be pushing whenever we have even a slight edge. The best spots aren't going away, they're always going to be there, but we maximize profit if we take advantage of all profitable spots, even those that are thinly so. And at microstakes we want to be developing as a poker player; as we move up limits there's less free money and the places we find value are going to be increasingly thin so we should get used to making plays like this.Also, it's kind of meaningless to say that even bad players have hands sometimes. Of course they do and when they do we lose, but that's not important. What we need to do is calculate our equity against his probable range and make our decision based on that. And he's a pretty wild player, so stacking off with TT preflop wouldn't be a mistake.

[albertoflamingo 0]

This is faulty thinking, it confuses tournament strategy with cash game play. Assuming we're properly rolled to handle variance we aren't looking to get our money in only in "the best spots", we want to be pushing whenever we have even a slight edge. The best spots aren't going away, they're always going to be there, but we maximize profit if we take advantage of all profitable spots, even those that are thinly so. And at microstakes we want to be developing as a poker player; as we move up limits there's less free money and the places we find value are going to be increasingly thin so we should get used to making plays like this.Also, it's kind of meaningless to say that even bad players have hands sometimes. Of course they do and when they do we lose, but that's not important. What we need to do is calculate our equity against his probable range and make our decision based on that. And he's a pretty wild player, so stacking off with TT preflop wouldn't be a mistake.

I think TT is behind most of his range here. I don't know his four betting statistics but an average 10nl player is never ever going to be four betting light and so his range is pretty much QQ+, AKo+ and our equity against that range is 33%. There's also been a lot of articles on like Cardrunners and stuff that explains why avoiding percieved slighty +EV spots in microstakes is ok. I don't even really think that applies here because I think we're pretty far behind his range. But I might be wrong.ETA: The Cardrunner post that Bull cross posted that explains folding marginal situations.2) Folding All Marginal SituationsMikeyPatriot posted this gem on 2+2:"The more experience you acquire, the more able you will be to handle marginal situations. This can definitely add a BB to your winrate. However, as other posters have made note of, they aren't that important! If you have a hard time in marginal situations, you will save yourself money and frustration by keeping yourself out of them. Fold QJo on the button if everyone has limped to you and you don't want to raise, but don't want to call. It may not be optimal (and I may get flamed for suggesting it), but when you enter a pot, you're potentially risking your whole stack. The marginal EV you gain playing the hand isn't worth the risk if you'll get stacked a bunch when you hit top pair."In Daut44's 20-tabling video, Ryan plays incredibly conservatively, throwing away overpairs on c/r'd baby boards, refraining from c-betting on miss boards, and otherwise keeping out of any sort of trouble. While he surely is getting bluffed and pushed off of superior hands on occasion, his profit comes from extracting maximum value with big hands. Playing incredibly straightforward, he still manages 3.75ptbb/100 at FR 200NL. I think this strategy is optimal for microlimit play, where players are more "calley" and "passive" than "bluffy." [sounds like we've talking about the seven poker dwarves here...]. The focus should be on not trying to push players off weak hands, but on extracting the maximum with big pairs and sets.Obviously, an occasional marginal calldown or bluff is correct if you're very confident in your read, and will add greatly to your winrate. But the fact of the matter is, throwing away a lot of hands and playing super standard will get you the money even at limits twenty times higher than 10NL, where supposedly the players are much stronger. Even cutting back on c-betting is worthwhile, especially out of position and in 3-bet pots.While MikeyPatriot's example of folding QJo on the button is pretty extreme, it does illustrate a point. Many marginal situations you get into are usually neutral EV. Some of the time, your opponent is bluffing, and you win the pot plus his bluff. Other times, you make a bad call (and want to punch yourself in the face) and lost the pot plus his value bet. So you'll win or lose about the same amount if it's a coinflip. Obviously, if the villain is particularly tight, you want to be inclined to fold. If they're spewy, you want to call.But without a specific read, folding every single questionable spot will not significantly cost you in the long run. In fact, if you aren't a spectacular hand reader, folding every time will SAVE YOU MONEY. This is extremely applicable at the microlimits, where players are somewhat erratic and it's hard to make a read. Folding is your friend. Say it with me. Folding. Is. Your. Friend.Don't worry about getting run over -- you'll be extracting so much value when your opponent is way behind, that folding consecutive small pots won't hurt much. Let's say you're playing OOP against a loose, aggressive player who c-bets the majority of time and double-barrels every he suspects weakness. You call his raise from the BB with 88, and the board comes K32r. When he bets, you pretty much have to fold, knowing he's going to fire the turn as well. You're going to have to fold very often here, losing -2.5BB each time from calling PF.But now imagine the board comes K82r. He bets 6BB and you flat, knowing he's going to bet the turn regardless of what falls. On the turn, he bets 15BB into the 19BB pot, and you move in on him. Let's say he folds every time. You've netted 24.5 BB total. Now, look at the odds of flopping a set -- it's 1 : 7.5. If you lose 2.5 and gain 24.5 every time the action plays out like this, you're getting 1 : 9.8 against this overaggro opponent, or about 2.5ptbb for every 7.5 flops you see with underpairs.While this is an oversimplified situation, it does show that always throwing away your hand in this marginal spot will still get the money. Occasionally, you'll c/r favorable flops and get a fold. Sometimes your opponent won't double-barrel, and will call or fold a value bet on the river. Sometimes your opponent will call your turn c/r and lose (or cooler you). But the point is, if you're 12-tabling and always folding here, you're not making a mistake because the value you gain will be greater than the BBs you give up by folding.

[cwik 0]

Funny thing happened today. I continued to get rolled in poker, but this time my red line didn't go up. Got my money in drawing dead EVERY TIME. .Hands in da blog.