New Challenge (old Challenge)

[dtblizz 0]

59% for me.I'm a bigger POW than all of you.

57.65%<---- biggest monkey of all

[RDog 0]

RDog, Zimmer, cubsfan, any other 6 max-ers, what are your folded to river bet %'s? I'm folding the river about 63% of the time, and I think I'm pretty much a POW monkey that can't fold. Any idea of what it should be?

Where do I find this? I'm playing right now and tried to scan quickly but I couldn't find it?

[simo_8ball 0]

57.65%<---- biggest monkey of all

Race you to 50?

[TB17 0]

Where do I find this? I'm playing right now and tried to scan quickly but I couldn't find it?

Go to more detail and it should be under the detailed aggression factor.

[psujohn 0]

Mine was 64%, and I'm for sure a POW. Although I allow people to bluff a lot so mine would be lower than your average TAG. If you're a standard TAG I would think your % should be in the mid 70s at least?

Yikes. Mine is only 54%. But my won $ @ showdown is 54%. Isn't that good? Or am I thinking like a limit player again?

[NoSup4U 0]

What does POW mean?

Pay Of Wizard. Rocks and Rings baby, get with the program :)Also, yay Jeet is posting!Mark

[ah2388 0]

58.5% for me

[NoSup4U 0]

Dammit Jeet, I know you were going to post your river fold % and then decided not to. Jerk!!! ;)Mark

[TeeSludge 0]

MileyWorld FTW..http://www.mileyworld.com/community/homeThe cartoon of her is pretty scary

[TeeSludge 0]

MileyWorld FTW..http://www.mileyworld.com/community/homeThe cartoon of her is pretty scary

On second thought that site is kinda creepy

[NoSup4U 0]

MileyWorld FTW..http://www.mileyworld.com/community/homeThe cartoon of her is pretty scary

Eek, that cartoon is scary. Also that site must be a sexual predators dream, has pics of everyone, and shows who is logged on, wtf? I hope Kae never grows up!Mark

[RDog 0]

Go to more detail and it should be under the detailed aggression factor.

50.1. Guess that means I am a station?

[TB17 0]

50.1. Guess that means I am a station?

well I assumed a winning player would be around the 70% mark for sure. I think we're all POWs tbh.

[NoSup4U 0]

50.1. Guess that means I am a station?

Whoa! Yeah that seems really low Rdog. I just talked to Jeet and his is 73%, and he said Samo tells him that he's a POW. So yeah, I would say we all should be trying to get up to the mid 70s at least.Mark

[bull62 0]

Well this was unexpected, I expected everyone to be around the 70s.

71%. I'm a scaredy cat.

[RDog 0]

Whoa! Yeah that seems really low Rdog. I just talked to Jeet and his is 73%, and he said Samo tells him that he's a POW. So yeah, I would say we all should be trying to get up to the mid 70s at least.Mark

Thats from 50k hands this month and I am winning at over 5 PTBB?

[pocktdeuces 0]

im at 50% also...

[RDog 0]

well I assumed a winning player would be around the 70% mark for sure. I think we're all POWs tbh.

Anyway to filter to find out how we are doing in those hands that we call a river bet? I would be vvv surprised if I was losing money.I tend to play turns very passively so maybe that has something to do with it?

[NoSup4U 0]

Anyway to filter to find out how we are doing in those hands that we call a river bet? I would be vvv surprised if I was losing money.

I dunno. I'm not saying anything about your play Rdog, just to be clear. Just saying, I would think in general we wouldn't be calling on the river half the time. Generally if I get to the river I have a monster that I'm betting/raising and they are calling, or I'm calling with the worst hand. :(MarkEdit: Just saw your comment about playing turns passively Rdog. I was saying the same thing, I play a little more passively and allow players to bluff more, so thats why I thought mine might be lower than the average players. But Jeet plays the same way I think, so I dunno. Will be interesting to see if someone can figure out how to filter on river hands we call and win/lose or something.

[PoppinFresh 0]

Some hands from today that I think illustrate some interesting points.POKERSTARS GAME #16938346695: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/04/23 - 13:20:46 (ET)Table 'Equinox' 6-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: TheCleaner11 ($3109 in chips) Seat 2: Jeetorious ($2555 in chips) Seat 3: ImNotSoGood ($2072 in chips) Seat 4: Flupkees ($3084 in chips) Seat 5: TheKaas ($1970 in chips) Seat 6: punketty ($2000 in chips) TheCleaner11: posts small blind $10Jeetorious: posts big blind $20*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Jeetorious [Qd Ad]ImNotSoGood: raises $40 to $60Flupkees: folds TheKaas: folds punketty: calls $60TheCleaner11: folds Jeetorious: calls $40*** FLOP *** [8d Ts 2d]Jeetorious: bets $133ImNotSoGood: calls $133punketty: calls $133*** TURN *** [8d Ts 2d] [7c]Jeetorious: checks ImNotSoGood: bets $389punketty: calls $389Jeetorious: calls $389*** RIVER *** [8d Ts 2d 7c] [Kd]Jeetorious: bets $1973 and is all-inImNotSoGood: folds punketty: folds Jeetorious collected $1753 from potJeetorious: doesn't show hand Seat 6: punketty (button) folded on the RiverI think the turn in this hand is a spot that a ton of players mess up. They think "oh I've got a flush draw" and bet again without really thinking about the situation because they don't know what else to do, or do something even worse like c/r'ing or c/c'ing. But once you get 2 flop callers and the 7 rolls off (a card that is going to hit their ranges hard), I think betting again is hopeless as you have very little fold equity and many times you won't even get to see the river since someone is going to raise. So I decided to check/fold, but then with a bet and a call in front of me I was all of a sudden getting very good odds, so I called. Then I hit on the river, and instead of taking time to think through the situation I decided to shove quickly because I think that looks the bluffiest. I'm still not sure what the best play is, that is one of the scariest cards that can fall and with 3 people each putting bets in on the flop and turn I'm not sure how often a non-flush hand is going to shove. Then again, it's still very hard to get called when you shove. I think I still slightly prefer shoving since in general people are more likely to make the mistake of calling too thin than value-betting too thin.POKERSTARS GAME #16938182798: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/04/23 - 13:12:10 (ET)Table 'Isonoe III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: punketty ($4426 in chips) Seat 2: TheKaas ($2409 in chips) Seat 3: Flupkees ($3021 in chips) Seat 4: Jeetorious ($2195 in chips) Seat 5: emaille ($2000 in chips) Seat 6: TheCleaner11 ($1870 in chips) TheKaas: posts small blind $10Flupkees: posts big blind $20emaille: posts big blind $20*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Jeetorious [6s 6c]Jeetorious: raises $60 to $80emaille: folds TheCleaner11: raises $200 to $280punketty: calls $280TheKaas: folds Flupkees: folds Jeetorious: calls $200*** FLOP *** [6h 7c 2s]Jeetorious: checks TheCleaner11: checks punketty: checks *** TURN *** [6h 7c 2s] [8h]Jeetorious: bets $611TheCleaner11: folds punketty: calls $611*** RIVER *** [6h 7c 2s 8h] [As]Jeetorious: checks punketty: bets $3535 and is all-inJeetorious: calls $1304 and is all-in*** SHOW DOWN ***punketty: shows [Kh Ah] (a pair of Aces)Jeetorious: shows [6s 6c] (three of a kind, Sixes)Jeetorious collected $4717 from potI think the river check is instructive, and I also came very close to folding my hand on the river, took about 25 secs off of my time bank before finally making the call. I think shoving the river against this opponent is a mistake, as he is more likely to make a big fold than a big call, and once the ace hits it’s very difficult for him to call unless he can put me on complete air a good % of the time (unlikely given the prior action). However, he is very capable of turning a made hand into a bluff (since my hand looks exactly like one that wants to see showdown for free, as with air hands or monsters the standard play would be to shove) or going for thin value himself with a hand like KK. So I checked, and he shoved the river fairly quickly. The timing of both his call on the turn and his shove on the river gave me a really eerie feeling; I think this is a fairly complex spot and he generally needs to take at least a few seconds on the river before making a thin value shove or deciding to bluff, and I think 77, 88, and AA are definite possibilities for him. I think being able to go with your read in these spots is very important, and on a related note I think it’s funny how everyone seems be giving Hachem shit for doing exactly that and folding the 35…people make bad calls over and over day in and day out and you never hear a word from anyone about it, but if anyone ever makes a bad fold it’s like they committed some terrible sin. It’s obviously in human nature to want to see the cards which makes calling more appealing than folding, but in the end a mistake is a mistake and it seems like everyone has gotten so opposed to folding the best hand they avoid plugging the rather large leak of being station-y. Anyway enough about that, in the end I still thought I was behind more often than not but I wasn’t confident enough in my read to overcome the nice pot odds I was getting and I ended up calling. It’s weird in that my read about the type of hand he had may have been correct, but AhKh is about the only hand with which he has a clear value shove that I’m ahead of.I actually have another hand as well but this post is long enough as is and I’m not sure if anyone is actually interested in reading my babbling so I’ll hold off and post it if anyone requests it.

[RDog 0]

I dunno. I'm not saying anything about your play Rdog, just to be clear. Just saying, I would think in general we wouldn't be calling on the river half the time. Generally if I get to the river I have a monster that I'm betting/raising and they are calling, or I'm calling with the worst hand. :(MarkEdit: Just saw your comment about playing turns passively Rdog. I was saying the same thing, I play a little more passively and allow players to bluff more, so thats why I thought mine might be lower than the average players. But Jeet plays the same way I think, so I dunno. Will be interesting to see if someone can figure out how to filter on river hands we call and win/lose or something.

Oh I know you aren't saying I play bad, I'm just really curious how the ranges in here are so wide and what it means. And just because I am winning doesn't mean I don't have some sort of leak there. Maybe I could be winning more!!!

[trussdude 0]

I actually have another hand as well but this post is long enough as is and I’m not sure if anyone is actually interested in reading my babbling so I’ll hold off and post it if anyone requests it.

Please post more!

[simo_8ball 0]

Anyway to filter to find out how we are doing in those hands that we call a river bet?

*cough* PokerEV *cough*

[mikeysong 0]

Some hands from today that I think illustrate some interesting points.POKERSTARS GAME #16938346695: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/04/23 - 13:20:46 (ET)Table 'Equinox' 6-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: TheCleaner11 ($3109 in chips) Seat 2: Jeetorious ($2555 in chips) Seat 3: ImNotSoGood ($2072 in chips) Seat 4: Flupkees ($3084 in chips) Seat 5: TheKaas ($1970 in chips) Seat 6: punketty ($2000 in chips) TheCleaner11: posts small blind $10Jeetorious: posts big blind $20*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Jeetorious [Qd Ad]ImNotSoGood: raises $40 to $60Flupkees: folds TheKaas: folds punketty: calls $60TheCleaner11: folds Jeetorious: calls $40*** FLOP *** [8d Ts 2d]Jeetorious: bets $133ImNotSoGood: calls $133punketty: calls $133*** TURN *** [8d Ts 2d] [7c]Jeetorious: checks ImNotSoGood: bets $389punketty: calls $389Jeetorious: calls $389*** RIVER *** [8d Ts 2d 7c] [Kd]Jeetorious: bets $1973 and is all-inImNotSoGood: folds punketty: folds Jeetorious collected $1753 from potJeetorious: doesn't show hand Seat 6: punketty (button) folded on the RiverI think the turn in this hand is a spot that a ton of players mess up. They think "oh I've got a flush draw" and bet again without really thinking about the situation because they don't know what else to do, or do something even worse like c/r'ing or c/c'ing. But once you get 2 flop callers and the 7 rolls off (a card that is going to hit their ranges hard), I think betting again is hopeless as you have very little fold equity and many times you won't even get to see the river since someone is going to raise. So I decided to check/fold, but then with a bet and a call in front of me I was all of a sudden getting very good odds, so I called. Then I hit on the river, and instead of taking time to think through the situation I decided to shove quickly because I think that looks the bluffiest. I'm still not sure what the best play is, that is one of the scariest cards that can fall and with 3 people each putting bets in on the flop and turn I'm not sure how often a non-flush hand is going to shove. Then again, it's still very hard to get called when you shove. I think I still slightly prefer shoving since in general people are more likely to make the mistake of calling too thin than value-betting too thin.POKERSTARS GAME #16938182798: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/04/23 - 13:12:10 (ET)Table 'Isonoe III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: punketty ($4426 in chips) Seat 2: TheKaas ($2409 in chips) Seat 3: Flupkees ($3021 in chips) Seat 4: Jeetorious ($2195 in chips) Seat 5: emaille ($2000 in chips) Seat 6: TheCleaner11 ($1870 in chips) TheKaas: posts small blind $10Flupkees: posts big blind $20emaille: posts big blind $20*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Jeetorious [6s 6c]Jeetorious: raises $60 to $80emaille: folds TheCleaner11: raises $200 to $280punketty: calls $280TheKaas: folds Flupkees: folds Jeetorious: calls $200*** FLOP *** [6h 7c 2s]Jeetorious: checks TheCleaner11: checks punketty: checks *** TURN *** [6h 7c 2s] [8h]Jeetorious: bets $611TheCleaner11: folds punketty: calls $611*** RIVER *** [6h 7c 2s 8h] [As]Jeetorious: checks punketty: bets $3535 and is all-inJeetorious: calls $1304 and is all-in*** SHOW DOWN ***punketty: shows [Kh Ah] (a pair of Aces)Jeetorious: shows [6s 6c] (three of a kind, Sixes)Jeetorious collected $4717 from potI think the river check is instructive, and I also came very close to folding my hand on the river, took about 25 secs off of my time bank before finally making the call. I think shoving the river against this opponent is a mistake, as he is more likely to make a big fold than a big call, and once the ace hits it’s very difficult for him to call unless he can put me on complete air a good % of the time (unlikely given the prior action). However, he is very capable of turning a made hand into a bluff (since my hand looks exactly like one that wants to see showdown for free, as with air hands or monsters the standard play would be to shove) or going for thin value himself with a hand like KK. So I checked, and he shoved the river fairly quickly. The timing of both his call on the turn and his shove on the river gave me a really eerie feeling; I think this is a fairly complex spot and he generally needs to take at least a few seconds on the river before making a thin value shove or deciding to bluff, and I think 77, 88, and AA are definite possibilities for him. I think being able to go with your read in these spots is very important, and on a related note I think it’s funny how everyone seems be giving Hachem shit for doing exactly that and folding the 35…people make bad calls over and over day in and day out and you never hear a word from anyone about it, but if anyone ever makes a bad fold it’s like they committed some terrible sin. It’s obviously in human nature to want to see the cards which makes calling more appealing than folding, but in the end a mistake is a mistake and it seems like everyone has gotten so opposed to folding the best hand they avoid plugging the rather large leak of being station-y. Anyway enough about that, in the end I still thought I was behind more often than not but I wasn’t confident enough in my read to overcome the nice pot odds I was getting and I ended up calling. It’s weird in that my read about the type of hand he had may have been correct, but AhKh is about the only hand with which he has a clear value shove that I’m ahead of.I actually have another hand as well but this post is long enough as is and I’m not sure if anyone is actually interested in reading my babbling so I’ll hold off and post it if anyone requests it.

dude. if no one hear wants to read this then email me! Pure gold imo.I really really liked the AQ hand btw. I never thought about it like that : (

[mikeysong 0]

hmmm...I thought shoving was bestestPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$106 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $1015UTG+1: $2058CO: $215Button: $1338.05SB: $2680BB: $1589Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K A Hero raises to $30, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.Flop: 9 6 2 ($70, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $50, SB raises to $130, Hero calls.Turn: 6 ($330, 2 players)SB bets $140, Hero calls.River: 2 ($610, 2 players)SB bets $160, Hero raises all-in $715, SB folds.Uncalled bets: $555 returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: $930:DI <3 people who only click the raise button :DPoker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $5/$105 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $667CO: $1975.05Button: $1463.75Hero: $1461BB: $1177Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with A J 2 folds, Button calls, Hero raises to $40, BB calls, Button raises to $70, Hero calls, BB calls.Flop: T Q K ($210, 3 players)Hero bets $122, BB folds, Button raises to $244, Hero raises to $550, Button calls.Turn: 3 ($1310, 2 players)Hero is all-in $841, Button calls.River: 2 ($2992, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $2992)Results:Final pot: $2992Hero showed As JdVillain showed A K