$500 buy-in final table..... what would you do?

[tazmision89 0]

Ok......Let me set this up for you guys/gals. $500+50 buy-in (no rebuy no add-on). 50 players, all starting off with 5,000 in chips (250K in play). Top prize is $10,000.Ok.......Fast forward to the final table with the last 3 players. I own 2/3 of the chips in play (165,000). Blinds are 2000/4000 with 300 ante.I am the BB. The button moves all-in (42,000). SB moves all-in (43,000). I look down and stare at 2 red AA.2nd place pays $5,000 and 3rd place pays $2,500.What would you do?I will give my play later on. But discuss this amoung yourselves.

[vaglvr 0]

Is this a trick quesiton?

[tazmision89 0]

Nope. It is real. Happened last night to me.

[Leafs 0]

If last to act, call.If not, go all in.They probably have A-paint, where you are a big favourite. Any PP you are a 4-1 favourite. Call or move in to shut out anyone else.

[cardo1971 0]

i would push it in & hope nobody sucks out, but with AA, & bieng the chip leader , you have to ...right? :diamondsa: :heartsa:

[Devilkin 0]

Push in.Listen to the groans that erupt when you turn over the AA and savour it.Even if your AA is cracked, you are putting in a max of 1/2 your chips (2/3 of stack means the most one other could have is 1/3), so you are still in OK shape worst case.If you don't push, what hand would you push with? Or are you of the mind that if I don't play, at least one of my opponents is out this hand?You are already in the money - take the good gamble with AA and play.Dev

[posoo 0]

I anticipate that the original poster is going to tell us that he made a tremendous fold here, because he wanted to let the small stacks knock each other out, guaranteeing himself second-place money. This would be incredibly foolish.This is your best chance to win immediately. Even if you call and lose, you are still guaranteed second place, since the second loser will either be knocked out or crippled with 1,000 left. This is a dumb post and requires no thought on any reasonable player's part. You cannot pick many better spots than this.

[semaj550 0]

From the way he asked the question I'm assuming that he decided to fold knowing that whoever lost the hand was virtually (if not literally) out of the tournament and he'd be playnig heads up with a 2:1 chip lead. Now this does seem like a great play with any lesser hand (possibly even AK or KK) but against 2 players you can expect your aces to hold up about 75% of them time regardless of what two cards they are each holding and you know that you cannot be in a position where you are not a big favorite to win the hand (with AK or KK you *could* be and quite possibly are dominated).I'd be all in without a thought. Please tell me you didn't fold.

[dms26 3]

You have to call, you're guaranteed 2nd place. 1 of them is either going bust or be left with 1,000. But most likely you take it down right there. Watch the WPT that Phil Gordon wins, he called 2 all ins with A7 I think to knock out 3rd and 2nd. Anyone who folds in that spot is playing scared and doesn't deserve to win.

[fryer98 30]

hmmm, tough one...CALL!!!In it to win it?

[justblaze 0]

yea im going to say call. is that right?

[Briguy 0]

There is nary a chance that _both_ shortstacks will outdraw you. Worse case scenario you lose to a 4-1 dog and end up with a guaranteed second place and still half the chips. Most likely you end up winning the tourney then and there. How can you not call the all-ins in this situation?I'm guessing from the fact that this was posted at all that the opps had two black aces vs some other pair, and that the other pair caught the set. Still a silly move not to call, IMHO, given the chip stacks and the fact that AA will win unimproved most times.

[justblaze 0]

it doesnt even matter, though, because 1 player is getting eliminated (or crippled to 2k chips should the 41k guy win) so you have 2nd locked down, and a 75% chance at first right here. you cannot justify folding here.

[cdddc75 0]

I'd call in a nanosecond.I like getting all the other player's chips in the pot while I am the favorite.

[akishore 0]

listen.if i had QQ or any lower PP, i would fold. if i had KK, i would consider folding but still probably call. if i had AK, i would fold.but with AA, this is NOT a fold situation.consider the possibilities if you fold:1. shortstack gets eliminated. you still have about 160k in chips, other person gets about 80k in chips. you have a 2-to-1 chip lead heads-up.2. shortstack doubles up and third player is virtually out (will be blinded out in the next minute or two). again, you have a 2-to-1 chip lead heads-up.regardless, you're guaranteed at least 2nd place, and you'll have a 2-to-1 chip leads heads-up.consider the possibilities if you call:1. you win. both others lose. you win. forget 3rd place and 2nd place money, you get 1st place money. you win.2. shortstack gets knocked out, other player triples up. you both have about the same number of chips now (about 120k to 130k). you are even in chips heads-up.3. shortstack triples up. same scenario.you're still guaranteed at least 2nd place, and more likely, you will win it right there. if you lose, you are now even in chips heads-up.now consider some other factors:1. you have aces. against two PP's, you are about 65%. against two suited connectors, you're roughly 55%. against a mix of the two, you're about 60%.2. you're risking only 1/4 of your stack, and if you lose, you still have about half the chips in play heads-up, so you're never in a bad situation.3. you're already in the money. you're hopefully playing to win it now. if this isn't an ideal situation, three-handed, i can't think of any other.if this hasn't convinced you, i'll put it mathematically in terms of real dollar amount.if you fold, you have virtually or literally a 2-to-1 chip lead, so disregarding all other factors, you'll win the tournament 2/3 of the time and win second place 1/3 of the time.EV = (2/3)(10,000) + (1/3)(5,000) = $8,333 in prize moneyif you call, we can estimate you will win the hand about 60% of the time. the other 40% of the time, you will again be heads-up but with even chip stacks, so 50% of those times, you'll win second, and the other 50%, you'll win first.EV = (.60)(10,000) + (.20)(10,000) + (.20)(5,000) = $9,000 in prize moneyclearly, calling has better EV. you can argue that it's close, but if you introduce the time factor, calling is more appealing.what i mean is that if you fold and get heads-up, the tournament will go on for some time. this means the blinds will rise, and more luck will be introduced. this means your winning chances, even with a 2-to-1 chiplead, decrease. if you call and win, you win the tournament right there without worrying about rising blinds.clearly, calling is the right move here.aseem

[tklefty 0]

Hmmm....let's see nowif I fold I'm guaranteed 2nd place if I call and lose I'm guaranteed 2nd placeif I call and win, tourney's over I win...what should I doCALL!!!!Ps...there's really not much to discuss here, tell us what you did

[VinsonRC 0]

Since I try to get my money in the pot with the best hand....I would probably move my chips into the pot... probably isnt' a strong word...I WOULD move my chips in and if I lose, I lost making the right move...thats poker.

[Solodell 0]

everyone else has said it already. You have to call. For all the reasons already mentioned. Just about the worst thing that can happen is you call, lose, and end up heads up about even money with the other guy. Best case you win the hand and the tournament.

[dEv~ 19]

I knew I could count on Aseem to give you all the stats on this play. I like to take a easier point of view and with that I don't see anyway you can fold here. As usual aseem stole most of my thunder but here's how I see it. This is a low risk high reward move. You're going to be a big favorite no matter what. Tournaments aren't easy to win, this is a golden opporitunity to take it down right there and you can't pass that up.-----Vinson if your going to quote the great Phil Hellmuth, do it rightThe quote is "If there wasn't luck involved I guess I'd win everytime."

[cardo1971 0]

what did you do ????????????????????????????????????? :wall:

[fryer98 30]

Vinson if your going to quote the great Phil Hellmuth, do it rightThe quote is "If there wasn't luck involved I guess I'd win everytime."

Yea, he should probably at least spell his name correct.

[dms26 3]

what did you do ????????????????????????????????????? :wall:

He must have "made the laydown of the century", ala Hellmuth.

[Awful 0]

Ok......Let me set this up for you guys/gals. $500+50 buy-in (no rebuy no add-on). 50 players, all starting off with 5,000 in chips (250K in play). Top prize is $10,000.Ok.......Fast forward to the final table with the last 3 players. I own 2/3 of the chips in play (165,000). Blinds are 2000/4000 with 300 ante.I am the BB. The button moves all-in (42,000). SB moves all-in (43,000). I look down and stare at 2 red AA.2nd place pays $5,000 and 3rd place pays $2,500.What would you do?I will give my play later on. But discuss this amoung yourselves.

EZ call.The chances of your aces beating 2 all-in hands here is indeed better than 2-1 given how badly they dominate QQ/KK/AK/AQ, whatever else constitutes a "push" hand. Fold: 2-1 favorite to win it all. zero chance of 3rd. Fold is worth $8333 assuming equal skillsCall: 2.3-1 favorite to win it all, zero chance of 3rd, and a 1-1 match if you call and lose.70%*10,000=7,00030%*7,500=2,250Calling is worth 9250, so you make $917 by taking those rockets in.Yes, I'm significantly fudging the math assuming SB surviving with 1/4 of a BB to be insignificant and doing such raw calculations instead of ICM or Malmuth Method stuff (I gotta reread those, justblaze )So you're better to win it all now than later with AA, and even if you lose you're even money to

[justblaze 0]

Ok......Let me set this up for you guys/gals. $500+50 buy-in (no rebuy no add-on). 50 players, all starting off with 5,000 in chips (250K in play). Top prize is $10,000.Ok.......Fast forward to the final table with the last 3 players. I own 2/3 of the chips in play (165,000). Blinds are 2000/4000 with 300 ante.I am the BB. The button moves all-in (42,000). SB moves all-in (43,000). I look down and stare at 2 red AA.2nd place pays $5,000 and 3rd place pays $2,500.What would you do?I will give my play later on. But discuss this amoung yourselves.

EZ call.The chances of your aces beating 2 all-in hands here is indeed better than 2-1 given how badly they dominate QQ/KK/AK/AQ, whatever else constitutes a "push" hand. Fold: 2-1 favorite to win it all. zero chance of 3rd. Fold is worth $8333 assuming equal skillsCall: 2.3-1 favorite to win it all, zero chance of 3rd, and a 1-1 match if you call and lose.70%*10,000=7,00030%*7,500=2,250Calling is worth 9250, so you make $917 by taking those rockets in.Yes, I'm significantly fudging the math assuming SB surviving with 1/4 of a BB to be insignificant and doing such raw calculations instead of ICM or Malmuth Method stuff (I gotta reread those, justblaze )So you're better to win it all now than later with AA, and even if you lose you're even money to

lol i started working out the TE in this situation using the different calcs, then decided a smoke break was a better idea.

[SabaAba 0]

Anyone playing $500+50 and has to ask this question should not be playing $500+50. I don't care if they only pay 2 spots or even 1 spot. If both players are all in and I am the overwhelming chips stack, duh you call. This would be a better argument if you said you were 2nd or 3rd in chips and both players already went all in. Then there is at least some discussion. But the fact that you have 2/3 of the chips LOL, this isn't a question, it's just going to be a bad beat story or something like that. I would call with any 2 resonable cards here. Fact is if you lose, 1 player will be heads up with even chip stack. If you win you don't even have to play heads up. I would even call with say QT, A5, suited connectors. But AA, c'mon let's be serious. Someone also said that the OP will say he made a great fold blah blah blah. If you folded, I don't care if you would have lost, it's still a BAD PLAY. If you don't call you are an IDIOT and should stop playing $500+50 tourneys right away.BTW, well done on winning the tournament (or at worst coming 2nd) nice payday.