Why Do We Play Tournaments?

[timwakefield 68]

GOSH

Are you saying gosh, or is that one of them acronyms?

[SuperJon 175]

Are you saying gosh, or is that one of them acronyms?

Go on, shoot him.

[KyleEvans 0]

Would you try to make a living off scratch off tickets and the weekly lottery instead of working at McDonald's?

Whoa don't bash the way I live my life.

[the_stein 0]

As have every other tournament pro, sw.Don't get me wrong everyone. I'm not saying that playing tournaments are -EV, I've already taken that back. I'm not saying that playing tournaments is for losers. I love to play them, but I would never do it as a living, no matter how good I was.

riiiiiiiiightttt

[murok 0]

because the thrill of hitting 3 bells on a scratch off ticket is more exciting than filling a fries basket?

[SuperJon 175]

riiiiiiiiightttt

It's true. I mean unless I was winning or final tabling, not just cashing, in 40% of the tournaments I played in. I would never do it for a living.

[the_stein 0]

It's true. I mean unless I was winning or final tabling, not just cashing, in 40% of the tournaments I played in. I would never do it for a living.

LOL this is true too, because with what you just suggested you could retire after about a year.Listen, if you could ft 15% of the tourneys you played you would stop whatever else it is you are doing and focus on that. If for nothing else, for the +EV!!!!

[scottyno 0]

lol tourneysarewaymorefunthancashgamesamentplus as others have said there are many people with a positive expectation in tourneys, just because you don't cash in most of the tourneys you play doesn't mean you lose money in them overall.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Because people like big numbers and daydreaming about what it would be like to win.

[WhatArunAA 0]

Stein.. you arent allowed to post in this topic. You are one of the best tourney players on the net ( IMO) and what you say weighs more than anyone elses. So please be quiet

[DonJ 0]

As a strictly online player I am +ev in both tourneys and cash games at the lower to mid-limits. And while I do put in long hours playing, I cannot often guarantee myself 5 hour+ chunks of time for some of these longer online tourneys. If I were in a position to go professional (I'm simply not good enough) and I had more dedicated poker time I would obviously play some of the bigger online tourneys. But right now it is simply way easier to sit out whenever I am needed at home when playing cash games plus I think I enjoy the ring games more....Although I do really enjoy barraging several Stars Sunday morning satellite rebuys into the Sunday million....+++ev!

[GetSprung 0]

for shits and giggles...

Fo sho'

[CodyDean 0]

hey, in response to your question...i am a canadian and i play tournament poker for a living. i do not play online like most of you though, i play live tournaments. cash games too, but the bread and butter comes from tournament for sure. here is how i've done so far this month. maybe it'll give you a little insight as to why some people choose to play tournament poker opposed to cash game. nevermind the *stars, that's where it says where the tournament was held but i figured it may not be appropriate to disclose that information because i am currently playing in quebec and it is illegal here :PFeb.2.----->* ------------------------ 1st / 40Feb.3.----->* ------------------------ 3rd / 59Feb.6.----->* ------------------------- 4th / 87Feb.8.----->* ------------------------- 17th / 97Feb.10.---->* ------------ 2nd / 18Feb.12.---->*------------------------- 27th / 110Feb.15.---->*------------------------- 4th / 93Feb.16.---->*------------------------- 1st / 1308 tournaments this month. 6 final tables, 6 cashes. big online MTTs are much different though. if that's what you're referring to...then ****. i don't understand how anyone can play online for a living. i fking suck at it. those things are crap shoots IMO. what is poker if you cannot see the players and everything that comes with the game. cheersCodyDean

[kidpkrJR 0]

I agree w/ Grinder too, I'm way better in tournaments then I am in cash games. I dunno why, I think partly because I still play tournament style in the cash games which simply can't get the job done.

[Socrates 0]

hey, in response to your question...i am a canadian and i play tournament poker for a living. i do not play online like most of you though, i play live tournaments. cash games too, but the bread and butter comes from tournament for sure. here is how i've done so far this month. maybe it'll give you a little insight as to why some people choose to play tournament poker opposed to cash game. nevermind the *stars, that's where it says where the tournament was held but i figured it may not be appropriate to disclose that information because i am currently playing in quebec and it is illegal here :PFeb.2.----->* ------------------------ 1st / 40Feb.3.----->* ------------------------ 3rd / 59Feb.6.----->* ------------------------- 4th / 87Feb.8.----->* ------------------------- 17th / 97Feb.10.---->* ------------ 2nd / 18Feb.12.---->*------------------------- 27th / 110Feb.15.---->*------------------------- 4th / 93Feb.16.---->*------------------------- 1st / 1308 tournaments this month. 6 final tables, 6 cashes. big online MTTs are much different though. if that's what you're referring to...then ****. i don't understand how anyone can play online for a living. i fking suck at it. those things are crap shoots IMO. what is poker if you cannot see the players and everything that comes with the game. cheersCodyDean

1st, to the OP. To answer your question: Because its easy money.For this reply. Online play is so bad in general that you don't need to see physical people. The betting patterns tell you everything you need to know 90% of the time. Definately not -EV and I would venture that most good players' cash rates is higher online than live.

[CodyDean 0]

well that is true. betting patterns do tell you plenty. i typed without really thinking. if you read dns latest blog about sucking at online poker, everything he states in there is identical to how i feel about online poker. it just doesn't interest me so i only play well to a certain point then it all goes down the shitter cause it just doesn't seem real. and seeing betting patterns on a computer screen cannot compare to the tells you get and can portray in live poker. but props to those who can do it for a living online. although it is not at all for me and i love live games much, much more...it is pretty cool to be able to do it all in your home. but again, personally, i love travelling and interacting so, computer poker just doesn't cut it. (not that internet pros don't travel or interact with the outside world lol) i'm going to stop typing right about...now

[tskillz187 0]

Most of the people who play tournaments instead of cash games just can't beat cash games for a big enough profit or are loser at the level that their bankroll can let them play at. A lot of the great tourney players on FCP (Hoos, PrtyP, Chucksty) kill cash games as well and probably make much more off of those.For me, I'm not willing to grind a bankroll up with cash games. If I can't play $200max NL I'm playing tourneys to generate a bankroll big enough to play that game. I generate my bankroll through MTTs, because I don't consider $500-$2000 a very big bankroll and I will just play $5-30 MTTs until I've grinded up to around 3k and then I'll play $200max and $100 MTTs. I cannot play cash games when the +/- at the end of the session doesn't matter to me. I find that 1-2 is the lowest level I can play seriously at online and 2-5 is the lowest I can play seriously live.

[SuperJon 175]

LOL this is true too, because with what you just suggested you could retire after about a year.Listen, if you could ft 15% of the tourneys you played you would stop whatever else it is you are doing and focus on that. If for nothing else, for the +EV!!!!

For the sake of this friendly conversation let's take a look into what you've said. Let's say you strictly play the Sunday Millions on Stars. To keep things simple we'll say that every week, your total cost is $215. We'll just pretend the $500+30 doesn't exist. If we just ft (come in 9th) 15% of the tournaments we played. How would we do for the year...Average 9th place prize ($8,000)Approx. 52 weeks in a year (52 tournaments played)Cost per tournament ($215)15% of 52 tournaments is 7.8 or roughly 8 tournaments.8 9th place finishes = $64000 won$215 * 52 tournaments = $11180Total profit - $52,820That's pretty good, and I most definitely respect your POV. Of course that number is only an estimate, as you could always place higher at the FT. But still, why do this for a living? Why not play cash games as well? I would like to hear DNs input on the topic. Yes he focuses on playing tournaments, but I don't ever see him completely neglecting the cash game.

[StupidKid 0]

For this sole reason...PokerStars Game #8501555516: Tournament #43284023, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit -Level XI (600/1200) - 2007/02/18 - 11:54:02 (ET)Table '43284023 11' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: ELBIB98 (23868 in chips) Seat 5: samir1971 (51372 in chips) Seat 6: stupidkid888 (14700 in chips) Seat 7: Argentína (30083 in chips) Seat 8: skibbel (14935 in chips) ELBIB98: posts the ante 75samir1971: posts the ante 75stupidkid888: posts the ante 75Argentína: posts the ante 75skibbel: posts the ante 75Argentína: posts small blind 600skibbel: posts big blind 1200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to stupidkid888 [Ac 10d]ELBIB98: folds samir1971: folds stupidkid888: raises 2400 to 3600Argentína: folds skibbel: calls 2400*** FLOP *** [4h Tc 7s]skibbel: bets 8400stupidkid888: raises 2625 to 11025 and is all-inskibbel: calls 2625*** TURN *** [4h Tc 7s] [3c]*** RIVER *** [4h Tc 7s 3c] [Qs]*** SHOW DOWN ***skibbel: shows [3h 3d] (three of a kind, Threes)stupidkid888: shows [Ac 10d] (a pair of Tens)ELBIB98 is disconnected Argentína said, "wow"skibbel collected 30225 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 30225 | Rake 0 Board [4h Tc 7s 3c Qs]Seat 1: ELBIB98 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: samir1971 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: stupidkid888 (button) showed [Ac 10d] and lost with a pair of Tens.Seat 7: Argentína (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 8: skibbel (big blind) showed [3h 3d] and won (30225) with three of a kind,ThreesBBFIDTS I know, but i thought it was almost relevant. Oh, and I play tourneys because i'm appaling at cash games...

[troyomac 0]

For the sake of this friendly conversation let's take a look into what you've said. Let's say you strictly play the Sunday Millions on Stars. To keep things simple we'll say that every week, your total cost is $215. We'll just pretend the $500+30 doesn't exist. If we just ft (come in 9th) 15% of the tournaments we played. How would we do for the year...Average 9th place prize ($8,000)Approx. 52 weeks in a year (52 tournaments played)Cost per tournament ($215)15% of 52 tournaments is 7.8 or roughly 8 tournaments.8 9th place finishes = $64000 won$215 * 52 tournaments = $11180Total profit - $52,820That's pretty good, and I most definitely respect your POV. Of course that number is only an estimate, as you could always place higher at the FT. But still, why do this for a living? Why not play cash games as well? I would like to hear DNs input on the topic. Yes he focuses on playing tournaments, but I don't ever see him completely neglecting the cash game.

LOL at you thinking someone could final tablt 15% of tournaments with 7500+ fields.

[SuperJon 175]

LOL at you thinking someone could final tablt 15% of tournaments with 7500+ fields.

DD is the one who said ft 15% of tournaments played. I just used the sunday million as an example since it has the biggest prize pool (that I know of). It's more realistic to ft 15% of tournaments with smaller fields, but you wouldn't make as much. Thus making me wonder why someone would only play tournaments. I guess I'm dumb for thinking that someone who plays cash games and tournaments would show a higher profit as opposed to someone who strictly plays tournaments.

[ForRealDD 0]

These are tournament stats for a random player. The bolded part is average expectation. That is what that person can expect to win every tournament they enter. ITM Rate: 22.1%FT Rate: 7.8%Top 3 Rate: 4.3%Avg. Finish: 42/100Avg. Buyin: $23Avg. Field Size: 943ROI: 142.5%Avg. Buyins Won: 3.346Avg. Expectation: $35

From this statistic ? This says 7.8% FT rate.

[gilbertology 0]

LOL at you thinking someone could final tablt 15% of tournaments with 7500+ fields.

Cmon, you know I final table 87% of tournies in 1000+ fields.to the OP, I think some people find tournies more "exciting" than grinding out cash games and more of a competitive challenge. Like Grinder says, there are also lots of players that are simply more +ev in tourneys than they are in cash games. In the last few months I've been trying to improve in a number of different cash games(o8, limit, nl), altho in that period I've luckboxed some tourney wins. I know the variance in MTTs is quite large, but some tourney players have a big enough edge for it to be worth it to just play mtts. That being said I don't think I'll ever be playing more than 3-4 tournies a day for various reasons, and I plan on spending my time playing poker split between tournies and cash games in the future.

[Doug 0]

I can't believe somebody with over 1000 posts on this forum has said that playing tournaments is -ev. I play tournaments and tournaments only online and I am profitable. I bleed money from cash games. Your post is ridiculous.

[SuperJon 175]

I can't believe somebody with over 1000 posts on this forum has said that playing tournaments is -ev. I play tournaments and tournaments only online and I am profitable. I bleed money from cash games. Your post is ridiculous.

I can't believe somebody with under 300 posts on this forum didn't bother to read the post where I took back what I said about tournaments being -EV.Please allow me to clarify. If you had to choose between supporting yourself playing tournaments or cash games, which would you choose?