Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The table had been playing loose so I decided to isolate with my position. It folds to the original raiser and he just calls. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button ($24.45)SB ($14.25)BB ($14.75)UTG ($5.95)UTG+1 ($11.60)MP1 ($51.60)Hero ($23.30)CO ($23.70)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, Q. 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75.Flop: ($6.35) 3, 4, 7(2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 raises to $8.6, Hero ???It's only $4 more to me so I'm getting a little better than 4:1 odds. I figure AA or KK would have pushed preflop so I'm not really worried about either of those hands. QQ has me dominated, and anything other than a set gives me the correct odds to call. Any thoughts, or a no brainer? Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 You're beat here. I lay it down.Nicely formatted post though. Much easier to read. Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Wasp 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Preflop 3bet is too small. make it $4. Flop bet is correct, although villian does smooth call preflop with AA and KK here so don't discount those too much. When chcked raised like this after the preflop action you are beat the majority of the time and his raise is designed to keep you around. You may be drawing dead or drawing to 3 outs. Your best case scenario is drawing to 6 outs which isn't too good anyway. Your thinking in the hand is fine as far as your 3bet however once villian plays back at us you have an automatic fold here. Link to post Share on other sites
Garn 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 honestly I don't like the 3bet too much. I would just call the initial raise. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'm ok with the 3bet pf.You're drawing to 6 outs best case, which is way worse than 4-1, so easy fold imo. And thats best case.This is pretty standard I think. You continuation bet and someone plays back at you on the flop, just get rid of the hand. You can fold this 100% of the time and be a solid winning player.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 So you guys don't call the extra $4.60 with over $18 in the pot? My opponent is all-in here too, so it won't cost me another penny. Is having roughly 4:1 odds not enough to call? I've also got $7 in the pot, would this not have me committed based on it only costing me another $4.60?I think I'm out of questions. :)You like that conversion action bdc30? <--- Okay, that was my last question. Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Wasp 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Sorry i didn't realise how short villain is. Because he is so short , if we continuations bet on the flop we must call his push even though we are pretty sure we are behind as there is so much in there already. On the flop we decide if we are playing this hand for his stack. If we do then we bet and call a push, if we don't we then check flop and fold to further aggression. Playing these short stacks is tedious and usually how we proceed is marginal either way. Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG+1 ($11.60)Hero ($23.30)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, Q. 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75.Flop: ($6.35) 3, 4, 7(2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 raises to $8.6, Hero ???I, too missed that he was so short stacked. You can manually edit out stacks of anyone not in the hand (as I've done above) to make it easier to pick up these little tidbits. Since this is the case, if you're gonna bet the flop, you might as well just put him all in. If it's another $4 on the flop and he's all in, you might as well call, but you're probably behind by a good margin.Now realizing his stack size, I really dislike the preflop reraise, and the flop c-bet. When he raises first, then calls your reraise, he's willing to play here for his whole stack. He's got a hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'm a little slow so you'll have to excuse me here, but there was a 3-bet PF? I assume the blind is the first bet, his raise is the second, and my reraise is the third. Do I have that right? Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'm a little slow so you'll have to excuse me here, but there was a 3-bet PF? I assume the blind is the first bet, his raise is the second, and my reraise is the third. Do I have that right?Re-raise would have been a better term for me to use. 3-bet is more of a limit term. Sorry.But yes, what you thought was what I meant. I'll edit my post. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 So you guys don't call the extra $4.60 with over $18 in the pot? My opponent is all-in here too, so it won't cost me another penny. Is having roughly 4:1 odds not enough to call? I've also got $7 in the pot, would this not have me committed based on it only costing me another $4.60?yes you have to call this but reraise a little more preflop if your going to raise which will also make your flop action a no brainer.also i tend not to isolate short stacks with hands like AQo. i pretty much just call his raise and fold if i miss. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Now realizing his stack size, I really dislike the preflop reraise, and the flop c-bet. When he raises first, then calls your reraise, he's willing to play here for his whole stack. He's got a hand.Agree. I too totally missed the stack sizes. Don't 3bet, and just fold flop.3bet is common in NL as well. bb is first raise, opener is second, you are 3rd bet.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I'm ok with the 3bet pf.You have to fold this 100% of the time and be a solid winning player.MarkFYP :)Seriously you just have overs, I use to loose a lot of money calling with just overs. Don't do it, you made a stab at the pot and it didn't work out, cut your loses. He has TT -88 and you are not getting him off it. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is a fold i expect u see a pocket pair a lot here and as most said, ur drawin to just overs and thats not good Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is a fold i expect u see a pocket pair a lot here and as most said, ur drawin to just overs and thats not goodit's fine getting > 4:1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 it's fine getting > 4:1utg+1 is all in..so u have 0 implied odds if u hit ur handso ur probably have around 6 outs gettin 4-1...i dont think thats all that good but hey..maybe ull suckout Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 This is a fold i expect u see a pocket pair a lot here and as most said, ur drawin to just overs and thats not goodI'm sitting at a $1/2 table, four players to the flop. Flop is Q97. Four players call pot bets. (I'm out of the hand, BTW). Turn comes 8. Four players bet/call. River comes K. Bets called all around and show time has AK winning. Player with AK says, "I had AK, I had to take it to the river." 8 players start nodding. I love poker. I lifted $800 off that $1/2-$200 max table in 2 hours. Link to post Share on other sites
Altruist 0 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I'm sitting at a $1/2 table, four players to the flop. Flop is Q97. Four players call pot bets. (I'm out of the hand, BTW). Turn comes 8. Four players bet/call. River comes K. Bets called all around and show time has AK winning. Player with AK says, "I had AK, I had to take it to the river." 8 players start nodding. I love poker. I lifted $800 off that $1/2-$200 max table in 2 hours.Pretty standard....On the original question, if we're going to isolate the short stack we know we're likely playing for his whole stack. Why not re-raise the rest of his stack pre-flop and make him decide now? It gives us the fold equity and further ensures a true isolation. There are only 2 hands, maybe 3, that you need to fear behind you and since you're holding some of that it reduces that chance. If UTG+1 is on a middle pair he might re-think his opening and let it go p/f.Otherwise, if we're not ready to play for his stack we call p/f and check/fold when we miss... right?My $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 So you guys don't call the extra $4.60 with over $18 in the pot? My opponent is all-in here too, so it won't cost me another penny. Is having roughly 4:1 odds not enough to call? I've also got $7 in the pot, would this not have me committed based on it only costing me another $4.60?I think I'm out of questions. :)You like that conversion action bdc30? <--- Okay, that was my last question.If he is all-in what definately changes the decision since you get to see the river card too for the same price. It depends on the villian, if he has been playing pretty loose and aggressive I probably make a crying call.I don't mind re-raising with AQ occasionally in position against aggressive opponents, but I don't like doing it against a short-stack. Make this play against someone who isn't as committed to the hand when he calls a preflop re-raise for 25% of his stack. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Great replies everyone, thank you. Here's the rest of the hand...not converted.calls $4.60*** TURN *** [3h 4s 7s] [Jh]*** RIVER *** [3h 4s 7s Jh] [Kd]*** SHOW DOWN ***gmcrafter: shows [Kc Kh] (three of a kind, Kings)Money022: mucks hand gmcrafter collected $22.40 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $23.55 | Rake $1.15 Board [3h 4s 7s Jh Kd]Seat 1: ungawdly (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: jojorebel (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: kroepy (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 5: hiker_jules folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: gmcrafter showed [Kc Kh] and won ($22.40) with three of a kind, KingsSeat 7: Cvaughn11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: Money022 mucked [Ac Qh]Seat 9: tatddy folded before Flop (didn't bet) Link to post Share on other sites
homnig 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 it's fine getting > 4:1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 callin the bet is fine as long as u realize u are almost always drawin to 6 outs at most...in this case it was 3...i wouldnt expect to win often makin this call though Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 callin the bet is fine as long as u realize u are almost always drawin to 6 outs at most...in this case it was 3...i wouldnt expect to win often makin this call thoughI knew making the call I was behind, possible drawing to 3 outs. I would not have called without the odds I was getting. Live and learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I knew making the call I was behind, possible drawing to 3 outs. I would not have called without the odds I was getting. Live and learn. o its understandable...i probably would make the call in the moment too but i wouldnt enjoy makin it at all Link to post Share on other sites
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