Altruist 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Single Table SnG - $250 buy-in - $2000 starting stack. 10-hand levels starting at $25/$50. $1,075 1st place. 8 players remain. Current level $100/$200. Our stack - $1800 after doubling up through the chip leader with a very, very tough all-in call with K 9 against K,8 offsuit on a 9,8,7 flop. (I was being pushed around for my rocky image and made a stand after tanking for 4 minutes)Hero with squeaky tight table image in BB with Q 9 sees a flop along with 3 very loose and extremely aggressive limpers. This was the maniac table. Unreal. Worse than micro-stakes. All-in's made and called with 2nd pair kinda stuff. Like these guys all had dates or something......Flop: 8 9 A (Pot = $900)Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 bets $400, Villain 3 calls $400, Hero calls $400 getting 4.25:1 w/ middle pair and some nebulus draws, Villain 1 mucks.Turn: Q Hero??? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Single Table SnG - $250 buy-in - $2000 starting stack. 10-hand levels starting at $25/$50. $1,075 1st place. 8 players remain. Current level $100/$200. Our stack - $1800 after doubling up through the chip leader with a very, very tough all-in call with K 9 against K,8 offsuit on a 9,8,7 flop. (I was being pushed around for my rocky image and made a stand after tanking for 4 minutes)Hero with squeaky tight table image in BB with Q 9 sees a flop along with 3 very loose and extremely aggressive limpers. This was the maniac table. Unreal. Worse than micro-stakes. All-in's made and called with 2nd pair kinda stuff. Like these guys all had dates or something......Flop: 8 9 A (Pot = $900)Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 bets $400, Villain 3 calls $400, Hero calls $400 getting 4.25:1 w/ middle pair and some nebulus draws, Villain 1 mucks.Turn: Q Hero???I am no tourney player but this has to be a check fold. Someone has an Ace at least and there is no reason to think you can get them to lay it down. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 extremely aggressive limpersSomething seems a little odd with this statement. Can't quite figure out what though. Fold the flop. As played, shove the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Okay, I'm extremely biased because I live near Tampa and have played at the Hard Rock. I'm going to assume all of your opponents are loose-mostly-retarded. I don't see how you can get away from this hand with one third of your chips in the middle against morons that will call with any ace. I think we're safe from AQ, but A9 and A8 seem possible. Also, I wouldn't discount JT. It would be a much easier decision to make in a real tournament with a real stack against people that were moderately predictable/sane/able to think.I stick it in and be prepared to deal with the overly friendly and not-at-all incompetent people at the front desk as I try to sign up for the next SnG. By the way, parts of the previous sentence were facetious. Link to post Share on other sites
Money022 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 It looks like you have position here. Hopefully they bet. Whatever they do, I would push all-in. Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Wasp 0 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 This is an easy check fold on the flop given the blinds, and your stack size. Pot odds are less relevant when you are short stacked in a tourny playing a multiway pot because you may be playing the pot for your whole stack. So even though you are getting the right price to suck out, you do not have enough chips to capitalise on it and any advantage you may have because of the price, is diminished by the fact that you may be drawing dead and will be out of the tourny if you hit. Also if you miss you are now stuck with 6bb instead of 8bb which is a huge differance in terms of any fold equity you may have when you start open pushing to steal blinds. If you must call the flop then being OOP with 2 players still in the hand you need to figure out how to get your stack in the pot. If the players are aggresive you would assume that one of these guys will bet the turn, so check pushing is the way to go. if your beat, your beat. You chose to play the hand to suck out and you have, given up on the hand now is just terrible. You should have given it up on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Altruist 0 Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Something seems a little odd with this statement. Can't quite figure out what though. Fold the flop. As played, shove the turn. They would limp. Then push OOP w/ middle pair and 2 players behind. That kinda thing.This is an easy check fold on the flop given the blinds, and your stack size. Pot odds are less relevant when you are short stacked in a tourny playing a multiway pot because you may be playing the pot for your whole stack. So even though you are getting the right price to suck out, you do not have enough chips to capitalise on it and any advantage you may have because of the price, is diminished by the fact that you may be drawing dead and will be out of the tourny if you hit. Also if you miss you are now stuck with 6bb instead of 8bb which is a huge differance in terms of any fold equity you may have when you start open pushing to steal blinds. If you must call the flop then being OOP with 2 players still in the hand you need to figure out how to get your stack in the pot. If the players are aggresive you would assume that one of these guys will bet the turn, so check pushing is the way to go. if your beat, your beat. You chose to play the hand to suck out and you have, given up on the hand now is just terrible. You should have given it up on the flop.In this structure, every pot you enter is likely to be for your whole stack. In any real tourney with a real stack and time to look for opportunities I'd muck the flop on this one with a smile. In the present structure, given what I know about this table, their image of me and considering it's the first flop that hit me at all in some time, I had to see one more card to see how it plays out. With the Q on the turn I slid my $1200 stack to the middle offering 1.75:1 hoping the draws knew it was incorrect to call and making an Ace lock up. The post flop opener tanked for a couple minutes and mucked A,9 face up (forgetting about the new rule about exposing cards and taking a 10minute penalty). Last player mucked as well. I said, "Good laydown"..... I had represented 10,J the whole time and assuming no one else held it I had to continue the ruse. A check/push is a no-go. Villain 2 is pushing the turn regardless what comes off. No doubt. I know that even before I see his cards. The only way for me to take this pot down is to push first while I have the fold equity.I don't like having to do that but the structure really does force you to gamble. Any other day in any other structure I never see the turn card.Thanx for the input! Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Single Table SnG - $250 buy-in - $2000 starting stack. 10-hand levels starting at $25/$50. $1,075 1st place. 8 players remain. Current level $100/$200. Our stack - $1800 after doubling up through the chip leader with a very, very tough all-in call with K 9 against K,8 offsuit on a 9,8,7 flop. (I was being pushed around for my rocky image and made a stand after tanking for 4 minutes)Hero with squeaky tight table image in BB with Q 9 sees a flop along with 3 very loose and extremely aggressive limpers. This was the maniac table. Unreal. Worse than micro-stakes. All-in's made and called with 2nd pair kinda stuff. Like these guys all had dates or something......Flop: 8 9 A (Pot = $900)Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 bets $400, Villain 3 calls $400, Hero calls $400 getting 4.25:1 w/ middle pair and some nebulus draws, Villain 1 mucks.Turn: Q Hero???How do you feel about losing to A8? Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey16 1 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Fold the flop. Once you call, your only option is to push the turn after you improve. If you think someone has JT, all the more reason to fold the flop, since there's only 6 cards that improve your hand, and one of them makes the nut straight.For a bunch of semi-retarded donks, you got lucky that the only one who might have folded A9 did just that.Fold the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Fold the flop. As played, shove the turn.AgreedThere is plenty in the pot now, no need to possibly let a flush draw see a free card. Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I fold on the flop with a 5 outer and very likely behind. With that turn and an aggressive table I check/push. Link to post Share on other sites
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