Bob Euchre 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Despite my original post, I actually kind of like/respect Gore....I even voted for him, but it was more of a lesser of evils type of thing, as I despise Bush....But I was a fan of Clinton. The whole political 'game' is so jacked in my opinion though, its getting tough (impossible?) to really get alot of good people to do the "right" things collectively, and consistently.This whole sensationalism of global warming is just kind of 'hoaxy' to me though. Granted, at the same time its a very serious issue....It used to be an ice age was coming, now apparently were all going to melt, and I remember a science teacher whom I respected years ago telling me that eventually we would all have to be very dark pigmented to even survive in the sun....an interesting thought I can see actually happen.But if you look at some of the drastic improvements to curb pollution which Clinton-Gore actually helped instill, and some of which Bush helped 'undo' I think we're getting towards the right direction. I mean, billions of dollars in regulation were spent to curtail emmision rates in plants across the country...This is improvement and it needs to continue, but the whole 'we must stop all polluting right now' or we will die very soon just doesnt hold water to me, unless you like long term recession or even a great economic depression. We definetly need to get up with the times though and hammer some simple things out on the issue.P.The air quality in North American cities has improved dramatically over the last century, no doubt. As a result of government intervention? Nope. Thanks to the free market developing better fuels and machinery, in spite of goverment regulations.Examples can be found in link below. Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Daniel - Good for you.Unfortunately the backlash is just as predictible - and unfortunately as happens with most serious debates it almost immediately turn personal. Who cares how he gets around - this issue is much bigger than a single person and his behavior (which I happen to find quite reasonable but even if I didn't that doesn't make the climate change any less of an issue) - let's debate the ideas regardless of who promotes them and how they live their life.See, this is where I have a problem...You have someone telling you to do one thing, or believe in one way, yet they live their life completely opposing what they so vehemently stand for....But yet that isnt supposed to matter?...For a fun and eccentric little analogy, lets equate that to Daniel blogging that none of us should gamble, or play poker. It's multiple cases and issues of hypocrisy here, not just the fact the guy travels by private jet _everywhere_ he goes when he has to travel....I still believe strongly if he really gave a damn he would lead by example, but I digress.... I just lose respect for these type of people. Gore just happens to be the example at stake in the matter, and it discredits his cause when you see these things and then look at all the dollar signs put together over $1,000 dinner plates spread around appearances and speeches.Its my opinion that he is not the crusader for this mission for selfless reasons, and he is not a scientist either.....and I certainly didnt create this thread with this title to backlash at Daniel and his opinions, I commended him for it and its a great discussion. Just a frustrating issue, and I guess I have a problem with Gore on it as well apparently, but more so in a constructive criticism type of way if that makes sense. I like that he is doing something, but move the talk to more action-P. Link to post Share on other sites
Barack_Obama 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'll bet you a million dollars that if there are no changes made to the way we live now, that we'll all be dead in 50 years. You can collect in 2057 if you we're still alive that is.Can I take you on this bet Daniel? I am willing to put up 1 million in cash on this one. I agreee with you on everything else though, I have been thinking about the environment all my life, I picked up litter for hours when I was six years old, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Lost Vagueness 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I haven't seen the movie yet, however I read a very interesting article in the Guardian last year. (They might have talked about this in the movie...if that's the case, sorry about the repeat).The article outlines how companies like Exxon have paid over 124 "indepedent " scientific organisations for them to state there is no link between car emissions and global warming. Interestingly enough, the company who first started using these companies was Philip Morris to prove that there was no link between smoking and cancer....and we all know what bs that is. It's all about creating enough doubt in people so they don't get involved....Anyway, here is the article if you are interested.http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatec...1875762,00.htmlSanna. Link to post Share on other sites
tsmag 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Daniel, would you agree that the scientists who are spreading all of these wild global warming rumors have an agenda as well? Scientists will do whatever they can to get their hands on more research money. I promise you Daniel, these same scientists were the same ones who were saying that the earth was about to spin into an ice age 30 years ago. Why, all of a sudden has everyone done a complete 180? Even if some of the data were true about the earth warming, it's been proven that the earth has warming and cooling patterns, as in seasons. How can man go back and gather all of the millions of years of information regarding the patterns and make a conclusion that the earth is not just in another one of it's cycles? Have you heard of the ice age? How did that happen, was it global cooling? How did all of that ice just suddenly melt? Global warming maybe?As for CO2 emissions, there is 50x's more CO2 released into the environment by volcanoes than what man can do. I'm sorry, but you have taken the bait and ran with it thanks to the snake oil salesman Mr. Gore. I believe he also will do or say anything he has to in order to be in the public eye. It's like he really wants to leave his mark somewhere, he tried to take credit for inventing the internet, now he's trying to take credit for "saving the world" . Come on, you can't have a message of convservation and then agree for someone to MINE ZINC on your property. He has no backbone, and will stand for anything to get him ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
KVOM 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Actually the Earth can get along quite well without us.If we all drove electric cars, then the amount of additional electric power needed to charge them all woulkd necessitate an enormous increase in generation capacity. Unless we jump onto nuclear power in a big way, then that option is unrealistic. of course the same "environmentalists" who decry greenhouse gas emissions are against nuclear power as well (well, maybe a different set of greens). I personally believe that we will eventually develop a hydrogen-based transport system before the predicted disaster occurs. Even the oil companies are working on this technology.In terms of air pollution, China and India will surpass the US within the decade. Since the Kyoto protocol favors them vs. the US, it would have been shortsighted for the congress to have ratified it. Link to post Share on other sites
scorcher1 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 hi daniel.....i'm sure those people in upstate new york could use some 'global warming' right now...j/kbefore you get too worried about all of us going to hell in a hand basket, i suggest you read michael crichton's...STATE OF FEAR..in paperback. while it a 'fictional' story all footnotes are real when talking about 'global warming'.good luck and enjoy reading your blogs!!scorcher1 Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Now you expect me to believe that the scientists cant accurately predict the weather or climate for 7 days but they can predict it accurately 50 years out? I think this is much ado about nothing. When you look at the big picture of the world and its age, we only have accurate temperature logs back a hundred years or so. I think this sample is way to small to be yelling doom and gloom. I mean sure we could do lots of things to help the world be a better place but I think it is very premature to say the sky is falling .... just my .02 Link to post Share on other sites
delphi12 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Daniel,If you want to really do something about this issue - be like Barry Greenstein and begin donating all your winnings to Al Gore's organizations. Until you do that, don't expect anyone to believe you really believe the hype. You selling your cars just sounds like you are bored with them - which is more likely the truth. That doesn't do much. Plus with all the traffic, do you guys get to ride in the carpool lanes in vegas with a hybrid as well? Perhaps another one of the true reasons.As a religious person, just accept the fact that maybe just is another one of the plagues. Too bad you don't have a shank bone to put an X on your door. God will skip over you when the time comes. Oh, and how do you want to deal with 1 million dollar bet?? I'll take you up on that. Perhaps we each buy an annuity and put it in escrow? If one of us dies of natural (or unnatural causes) before then, the bet is off. How does that sound? Link to post Share on other sites
boss429lvr 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 This is to daniel and everyone else who cares to read it and get both sides of the facts. The book is called The Skeptical Environmentalist by Bjorn Lomberg. This is a very good book that actually gives real facts based on science not emotion or money. Mr Lomberg set out to prove all the enviroment problems by statics by ended up going the other way and proved most were wrong.Just hope folks would read this book before falling hook, line and sinker for Mr Gore "facts". One of the best lines in the book came from one of the main OPEC guys, he says we didnt leave the stone age because we ran out of stones, so we wont leave the fossil fuel age because we run out of fuel. we the technolgy get cheap enough common folks can use it we will. If you have time you should also read Dixie Lee Rays books. They are very good too.thanksmichael Link to post Share on other sites
Livaso 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The ONLY way to curb it is to make it hit home. You can't let someone try to change the world on your behalf and you can't impede on anyone's free will or freedom. Everything comes from individual sacrifice and you can only make people understand in hopes of changing the way they look at things. CO2 emissions doesn't even begin to demonstrate the literal blanket of jet exhaust over the United States, blocking out the sun (called global dimming, the less talked about [but more viral] cousin of global warming that anybody interested in these topics should read up on). Or the poisoning of every natural water source on the continent. Or the psychological effects of concrete jungles. The world needs to grow in general and our unwillingness to respect our landscape is only a sign of our immaturity as a race. A tidal wave of change can take place with the right individuals and the right crescendo of the right events. The only hard part is removing people from their bubbles to a larger picture, not just with climate, but with the way we're living. pollution is a symptom, or a warning sign of our greater circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 As for CO2 emissions, there is 50x's more CO2 released into the environment by volcanoes than what man can do. I'm sorry, but you have taken the bait and ran with it thanks to the snake oil salesman Mr. Gore. I believe he also will do or say anything he has to in order to be in the public eye. It's like he really wants to leave his mark somewhere, he tried to take credit for inventing the internet, now he's trying to take credit for "saving the world" . Come on, you can't have a message of convservation and then agree for someone to MINE ZINC on your property. He has no backbone, and will stand for anything to get him ahead.Actually, the opposite is true. While a single volcano can emit a greater amount of pollution then man made pollution in a single instance/short period (for example in the early 90's apparently mt st. helen was the biggest pollutant in the state of Washington for a period of time), every year there is 50x, or even more, man made pollution created by the world population, versus the pollution created by volcano's.Thats what I've found to be true as far research/what I've read.....if you find something that dis-proves this I'd like to see it though-P. Link to post Share on other sites
tsalagi 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think it is great that Daniel took on this subject in his blog. Agree with it or not, it brought the subject up for excellent discussion.Nice work Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 If anyone actually wants to read some real scientific work on global warming, by far the best place to do so is through the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). For those who aren't aware of this group, they are a UN sponsored body that consists of many climate scientists working around the world. They have released several reports on the topic of global warming, both presenting evidence and making predictions. The newest report is out soon. There is no more comprehensive source of evidence on the subject. They represent the consensus of scientific opinion on the subject, and really there's no one group I would trust more on the subject than this one.The reports are long and pretty "sciency." They provide summaries, but their summaries have been criticized for being over simplistic. http://www.ipcc.ch/Although apparently everybody who posts in this forum is already an expert on the subject, having read State of Fear or some article somewhere, you should still look into the actual science behind the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
Head_Trauma 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The air quality in North American cities has improved dramatically over the last century, no doubt. As a result of government intervention? Nope. Thanks to the free market developing better fuels and machinery, in spite of goverment regulations.Examples can be found in link below. jopke? Link to post Share on other sites
Head_Trauma 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Can I take you on this bet Daniel? I am willing to put up 1 million in cash on this one. I agreee with you on everything else though, I have been thinking about the environment all my life, I picked up litter for hours when I was six years old, lol.I wouldn't take this bet too literally, considering it is 100% impossible that significant changes to the way we live will not occur in the next 50 years. Therefore, the bet is off. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'll bet you a million dollars that if there are no changes made to the way we live now, that we'll all be dead in 50 years. You can collect in 2057 if you we're still alive that is.I'll take the bet.I have a million to back it up, but it's tied up in real estate and if I lose I don't know if there will be anyone around to buy me out to pay you. I don't have a probelm with Gore flying a private plane. His security needs trump his desire to be energy minded and I for one don't feel it is hypocritical. Link to post Share on other sites
chrozzo 19 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'll take the bet.I have a million to back it upbrag post Link to post Share on other sites
cfinnn 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Trees over human life, environmentalism in a nutshell.Hahaha. What a lovely sound bite. They are one in the same. If we rush to chop down all the Pacific yew trees, as you suggest, there would be none left to make this drug that is so needed. I really thought that was quite evident. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hahaha. What a lovely sound bite. They are one in the same. If we rush to chop down all the Pacific yew trees, as you suggest, there would be none left to make this drug that is so needed. I really thought that was quite evident.Are yew sure about that?sorry, someone had to make that pun. Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 QFTMFTthere are alternate sides to EVERY argument...just because Gore made a motion picture from his argument and made millions off people going to see it, DOES NOT give it any more validity than the scientists' arguments that oppose Gore's beliefsquote an article in a respected, peer reviewed scientific journal that opposes the idea of global warming."letters" is the most respected, i suggest you start there. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 quote an article in a respected, peer reviewed scientific journal that opposes the idea of global warming."letters" is the most respected, i suggest you start there.Does The Onion count? Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Does The Onion count?lol, unfortunately not BG Link to post Share on other sites
mr_english 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 DANIEL this is a long read but if you have an open mind I think you should find it very interesting,http://www.raleightavern.org/globalwarming.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 lol, unfortunately not BG Dang I get all my best stuff from them Link to post Share on other sites
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