**official Mma Thread**

[HoosierAlum 0]

Some intersting fights tonight.The one thing that stands out his how many times Nate Diaz was getting hit in the face and the ref did nothing, whereas they stopped the Karo fight.

Yes this pissed me off greatly. (mostly bc I had $ on KP)

[jayboogie 0]

Yeah it was a great card tonight except for the stoppages which were definitely controversial in some ways. I actually expected the Diaz fight to get stopped when Pellegrino had his arm trapped and was pounding away. I think the Alexander stoppage was legit, he was out in my opinion. I thought the Karo and Lauzon stoppages sucked personally. They really need to do something about the rules in regards to stoppages, because they can potentially ruin great fights. I can understand why the Lauzon fight was stopped, but it still doesn't make it right, especially if you compare the Diaz fight to his. Diaz took way more punishment than Joe did and his fight was allowed to continue, while Joe's was stopped. It would be good if they could make the rules more specific and not be an interpretation of the ref.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Rampage on TUF was hillarious. Some of it was intentional obv. But the guy is just funny.

Loool @ yelling "take yo face out his balls!" when the guy had him in a triangle.As for the stoppages, I think the houston on was legit, Karo was marginal but I think he was still getting his ass kicked. And I think nate was showing some ability to get out of that crucifix position which is why they let it go a little, but he was getting pounded pretty hard. I think it was comparable to the Brock fight where he was pounding Mir but everyone knew that he could back and win it. imo.edit, I agree that the Kenny did 0 damage on joe from the mount, it was a pretty ridic stoppage

[ShakeZuma 585]

I disagree. I watched the replays and rewound them myself as well, and in both of those stoppages, the fighters dropped from the initial blow then went limp for a second when on the ground. How many fights can you think of where I fighter came back from something like that? Probably not a lot. Sure, they recovered when the guy was pulled off of them. It's a lot easier to argue with a ref and throw your hands in the air to the crowd with double vision and a light head than it is to dodge a flurry of bombs. They are trying to make this sport mainstream and take it out of the dark ages, and limp, unconscious fighters taking fists to the head won't allow them to do it.Basically, my long winded, new to MMA opinion, I think they were good stoppages. Very close, but the right thing to do.You think he had it in the first place?

completely agree. everybody talking about "he could have come back" doesn't understand the whole purpose of a ref stoppage. if a fighter is out, he can't intelligently defend himself, and serious damage (ie deadness) can occur. doesn't matter if after a few seconds he'll be ok. karo was out, and that arm wasn't "defending" anything; it was limply draped across his face. big difference. when your knees buckle and you slump down like that, you're out, plain and simple. the last thing the UFC needs is some guy getting brain damage or killed because a ref let another fighter continue beating on him when he was completely out, and for that reason in these situations the refs HAVE to err on the side of caution. it isn't about what the fighters "want."

CLAY GUIDA VS. SAMY SCHIAVOROUND 1 -- A slow start as the fighters access the situation. Guida is patient as Schiavo lets his hands fly and throws quick combinations. Guida waits for an opening and then scores the takedown. Guida then easily takes the mount position. While in the dominant position, Guida delivers short punches and elbows. The barrage continues with big left punches before the ref finally steps in to halt the fight. Clay Guida def. Samy Schiavo via TKO (strikes) -- Round 1, 4:15.(from mmaJUNKIE.com)

nice. hope this will get him another ppv showing of some sort. love watching that guy fight.

Pellegrino was dominating Nate the entire fight, he just got very sloppy on that slam and left his head in too deep. I thought he had the fight won when he was pounding on Nate with his arm trapped in the 1st. Regardless, Nate's got a sick triangle and one of the best guards around.

well to be fair, every fight nate has fought in he got dominated until he found his submission. thats just his style: take a beating until you can slip in some sort of submission. seems to be working pretty well now, but its gonna suck when he gets in there with either a serious striker who knocks him the fuck out, or another submission guy who beats him to the punch. it definitely was entertaining to see him just wait around for the sub and once he got it just relax knowing that his gameplan completely worked.

I was real pissed that Joe lost as well. He definitely won that 1st Round and I think he just got tired out there, which is why he gave up the takedown without a sprawl even and got his guard passed. That stoppage sucked in my opinion, those were pitter patter shots that Florian was throwing and nothing was really landing. I can see why the fight was stopped, but I still don't agree with it. Joe didn't have a single mark on his face. I also don't get why they restarted the fight on the feet when Joe got the takedown in the 1st and got elbowed in the back of the head. I still can't stand Kenny, because he tried to make it seem like he beat Joe up, but that obviously wasn't the case. I'm also sick of his stupid elbows that he throws to cut fighters rather than hurt them. It was pretty unimpressive for Florian to have mount for a good 2 minutes and do absolutely no damage.The Karo stoppage was also bad. Karo had his hands up defending himself eventhough he did get rocked hard by that knee. They should have let that continue. I only like the stoppage when the fighter has their hands to the side and head rolled back, that wasn't the case here.

I didn't particularly "like" the florian/lauzon stoppage myself, but it wasn't going anywhere. joe couldn't get out of the mount, he was almost out of energy, and what else was the ref gonna do, stand them up when florian had a dominant position just because he was punching like a bitch? but seriously though, I hope he gets made fun of endlessly for having a mount on a guy for 2 minutes without getting in a single real punch.also, I think I am REALLY going to enjoy this season of TUF. you've got pretty much the two funniest dudes in UFC couching. should be great. when the fights were going on and rampage and forrest were talking in the background, I swear it was like a mma version of mystery science theater 3000.

[PrtyPSux 0]

o the punch. it definitely was entertaining to see him just wait around for the sub and once he got it just relax knowing that his gameplan completely worked.I didn't particularly "like" the florian/lauzon stoppage myself, but it wasn't going anywhere. joe couldn't get out of the mount, he was almost out of energy, and what else was the ref gonna do, stand them up when florian had a dominant position just because he was punching like a bitch? but seriously though, I hope he gets made fun of endlessly for having a mount on a guy for 2 minutes without getting in a single real punch.

Well the ref should have let it go until Joe couldn't intelligently defend himself, and that was never the case.....I litereally didn't see one big punch go through and I saw Joe being close to getting out of that position for the past minute or so. I honestly thought joe was doing an amazing defensive job and actually did much better in offensive positions than what Kenny did. His elbows were def back to the head too, and standing them up was retarded considering Kenny was getting the worst of it as he fouled Joe.

also, I think I am REALLY going to enjoy this season of TUF. you've got pretty much the two funniest dudes in UFC couching. should be great. when the fights were going on and rampage and forrest were talking in the background, I swear it was like a mma version of mystery science theater 3000.

lool mystery science theater is a great comparison. I thought it was hilarious. And so was Dana's "watching turtles ****" line. Or Rampage "did you smell this dude?" etc.... too funny. I cant wait for their actual fight, they're both some of my fav's.

[bdc30 0]

Rampage was awesome. Anyone giving Serra more than 10% chance to beat GSP??

[lucky_charmz 0]

I also didn't agree with the stoppage in the Florien/Lauzon fight, as no real damage was being done by Kenny and Joe was still intelligently defending himself. Also, after watching last night's episode of TUF, I have to say that I am not looking forward to this season as much as the previous ones. Those were some sloppy fights. I thought that in a few of them, the outcome was determined not by who the more skilled fighter was, but rather by who could handle the weight cut the best and not gas. But who knows, maybe I will enjoy it more when they are down to 16...

[outsider13 0]

Rampage was awesome. Anyone giving Serra more than 10% chance to beat GSP??

Not this time, although I gave Serra 0% chance the last time too. That is going to be a great fight.

Also, after watching last night's episode of TUF, I have to say that I am not looking forward to this season as much as the previous ones. Those were some sloppy fights. I thought that in a few of them, the outcome was determined not by who the more skilled fighter was, but rather by who could handle the weight cut the best and not gas. But who knows, maybe I will enjoy it more when they are down to 16...

This time, you are seeing 32 fighters, not 16. Once they get it down to 16, it will look better. And it is always like that anyways. Usually there's only 6 or 8 guys that can fight and the rest of the guys are chumps.....Andy Wang, Danny Abbadi. There's a lack of talent every show imo, with exception of the top guys.

[bdc30 0]

You mentioned weight cut - that was something I was thinking about while watching last night as well - if you knew you were heading to Vegas to be on TUF - what are you doing walking around almost 20lbs over your fight weight? Granted, they've never had to fight their way in, but if it's me, I'm showing up at or within 5lbs of my number.

[lucky_charmz 0]

Not this time, although I gave Serra 0% chance the last time too. That is going to be a great fight.This time, you are seeing 32 fighters, not 16. Once they get it down to 16, it will look better. And it is always like that anyways. Usually there's only 6 or 8 guys that can fight and the rest of the guys are chumps.....Andy Wang, Danny Abbadi. There's a lack of talent every show imo, with exception of the top guys.

Last season everyone was garbage except for Mac Danzig...George wasn't bad either I guess........I honestly believe that there must be 32 fighters out there at 185lbs that are better than the guys we saw last night.

[lucky_charmz 0]

You mentioned weight cut - that was something I was thinking about while watching last night as well - if you knew you were heading to Vegas to be on TUF - what are you doing walking around almost 20lbs over your fight weight? Granted, they've never had to fight their way in, but if it's me, I'm showing up at or within 5lbs of my number.

I agree with you but this seems to happen every season with the guys on this show. I think part of the reason is that weight cutting is extremely difficult, and thus it is only done just before weigh ins to minimize the fatigue that results from it.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Fedor/Randy might still happen in the UFC http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3280383I think Dana has to make it happen. With all the upstarts coming taking Fedor and possibly Randy off the FA market would be a wise business decision. Tim Sylvia just signed with M1 america.

Losing Tim Slyvia will only result in better fights for the HW division. I'm not a fan, never was a fan, and never will be a fan of him. He'll also end up back in UFC at some point as I highly doubt that a lot of these start ups will stick around for all that long. EliteXC is the only one with a real shot IMO as they have Showtime to save their enormous losses right now. IFL is basically dead and we saw what happened to BodogFIGHT

wow, I hope tommy speer can regain the ability to talk and read again

RonnyMex took the joke that everyone was thinking

I disagree. I watched the replays and rewound them myself as well, and in both of those stoppages, the fighters dropped from the initial blow then went limp for a second when on the ground. How many fights can you think of where I fighter came back from something like that? Probably not a lot. Sure, they recovered when the guy was pulled off of them. It's a lot easier to argue with a ref and throw your hands in the air to the crowd with double vision and a light head than it is to dodge a flurry of bombs. They are trying to make this sport mainstream and take it out of the dark ages, and limp, unconscious fighters taking fists to the head won't allow them to do it.Basically, my long winded, new to MMA opinion, I think they were good stoppages. Very close, but the right thing to do.You think he had it in the first place?

yea, there was no way that Alexander was with it and that was a solid stoppage. I think the Karo one was a bit questionable, and I didn't see the Lauzon stoppage as I fell asleep because I was catching the replay

my question: did anyone else think diaz's triangle was too shallow? it looked to me like it was halfway up KP's head and that his arm was in his cheek. i was surprised when he tapped.

it looked a bit high, but it also looked tight as hell too. Especially when he moved off to the side a bit to cinch it up even more

Some intersting fights tonight.The one thing that stands out his how many times Nate Diaz was getting hit in the face and the ref did nothing, whereas they stopped the Karo fight. Again, I'm biased here. I don't really like Karo. But I think he is tremendously talented, and I would like to see him fight top level competition. Obviously this loss will slow that process once again. Rampage on TUF was hillarious. Some of it was intentional obv. But the guy is just funny.

I think part of it is knowing that Diaz basically takes a beating each and every fight, though I really thought that Pellegrino was close twice in teh first round and if he had been able to sustain it for another few seconds it would've been stopped

Rampage was awesome. Anyone giving Serra more than 10% chance to beat GSP??

I am, though I think GSP will still win

[jayboogie 0]

I think there needs to be a more specific definition for intelligently defending yourself. Personally, I feel if you put up your elbows and block every punch coming through, that's intelligently defending yourself. Others may disagree though. I'm not saying Kenny doesn't have a good mount, but the reason why it was effective was he was throwing pitter patter punches in order to try and score a BS stoppage. He wasn't trying to really hurt Joe and risk losing his position and he was throwing those stupid slicing elbows trying to cut Joe as well. Joe was tired in that fight, but he wasn't taking any damage and I think he could have made it out of that round. I just hate when fights are stopped and the figher isn't even taking any damage. It's like I said before, Diaz took way more damage in his fight than Joe did and his fight was allowed to continue, while Joe's got stopped. The Karo stoppage was bad imo, because Alves didn't really hit him clean with the follow up shots and Karo had his hands up defending himself. The way Karo went down was no different than Nog getting knocked down by Sylvia, but he was allowed to continue whereas Karo was not. Personally, I was happy Alves won because I don't like Karo very much. That doesn't take away from the fact that the fight was stopped early though.Diaz does usually get dominated early and come back to win, but in this case, Pellegrino got caught making an amateur mistake. He shouldn't have slammed him when Nate had a guillotine attempt on him. He then also dove his head in too deep after slamming him and allowed Nate to lock on a very deep triangle. From an excellent grappler like Pellegrino, it was pretty disappointing. If not for getting caught at the end, Pellegrino was outgrappling Diaz easy.As for TUF, I think CB Dolloway is going to win the whole thing. It doesn't appear as though there is anyone even close to him skillwise in there.

[Jadaki 0]

As for TUF, I think CB Dolloway is going to win the whole thing. It doesn't appear as though there is anyone even close to him skillwise in there.

We have only seen 1/2 the fighters though. And so far all these guys coming in with 4-4 and 4-5 records are just kind of bleh.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Rampage was awesome. Anyone giving Serra more than 10% chance to beat GSP??

me. i think he's no worse than 3 to 1 but I'd say 2 to 1 is even closer to the real number if he comes in looking as good as he did in their first fight. Serra is no joke man, I'd say he's much better than Hughes, and will give GSP a much tougher time.

[jayboogie 0]

me. i think he's no worse than 3 to 1 but I'd say 2 to 1 is even closer to the real number if he comes in looking as good as he did in their first fight. Serra is no joke man, I'd say he's much better than Hughes, and will give GSP a much tougher time.

I'm not sure Serra would beat Hughes, but he's just a better match-up against GSP than Hughes is. GSP does everything better than Hughes. Serra has better BJJ than GSP and as we've seen, is certainly capable of knocking out GSP. I'm expecting GSP to go for the takedown and try to work in Serra's guard without passing. The last thing he wants is Serra on top of him. Serra's striking is a bit underrated as well, he's done real well against BJ and GSP standing, so it's not to be overlooked. This is going to be a tough fight for GSP, Serra is a tough fight for anyone.

[Actuary 3]

I think Kenny won by Humiliation.C'mon, I know he didn't score viscous shots but it was just getting pathetic, imo.I realize technically, it was not necessary to stop the fight.

[steve7stud 0]

I think Kenny won by Humiliation.C'mon, I know he didn't score viscous shots but it was just getting pathetic, imo.I realize technically, it was not necessary to stop the fight.

I tend to agree with this as well. While I was surprised that Kenny didn't finish the fight, it has to scare you when the ref warns you about doing something he believes is illegal. Not that Joe was in a position at that point to get hit in the back of the head, it had more to do with Kenny's state of mind. This is pure speculation on my part. But getting a warning like that has to throw your game off a bit, and will make you less aggressive by nature.One thing that so many people are overlooking is how Joe looked at the end of the fight. He had no marks on his face. But he stayed on the ground after the ref called the fight and seemed totally exhausted and beaten. It's not like he jumped to his feet and started arguing......

[PrtyPSux 0]

One thing that so many people are overlooking is how Joe looked at the end of the fight. He had no marks on his face. But he stayed on the ground after the ref called the fight and seemed totally exhausted and beaten. It's not like he jumped to his feet and started arguing......

yea, this is the only bet I was able to make. I honestly didn't think about the altitude issue in Denver, and I didn't know that Kenny went to train in Denver while Joe stayed in Hilo kickin it with BJ. I hated it when I heard this and wouldn't have made the bet at +170 if I had known, you could immed tell that joe was gassed in the 2nd round. That said, he had already gone from mounted to half guard twice and showed that he was protecting himself and just figuring out how to get out of the mount, it's pretty damn hard to get out of that, I think towards the end he should have given up his back as a last resort. But I'm no expert.

[BigLebowski 0]

Irvin/Alexander was a legit stoppage. Alexander was out and stiff. The only thing that woke him up was another direct hit.Alves/Karo might have been a bit premature, but certainly not even in the top 100 bad stoppages. The reason Alves's last two punches didn't land was because the ref was pushing him off of Karo.Lauzon/Florian was a legit stoppage. If nothing else, just look at how Lauzon acted after the fight; congratulatory and not arguing at all. Of course that's Joe's style, but there was nothing he did to indicate he thought he got ripped. If Joe was OK with it, I am OK with it. Fantastic first round though.Edgar was a bit disappointing. I think he just found someone bigger and stronger.Boetsch looked pretty good until he gassed out...hard. Taking fights on short notice often is not a wise career move. Anthony Johnson....just wow! That was a clinic.

[jayboogie 0]

Joe was out in Denver 2 weeks early to get used to the altitude and he did the proper preparation such as sleeping in a hyberbaric chamber. Still, you can't predict what is going to happen in a fight and getting tired happens even when you're in shape. There were a lot of fighters on the card who looked like they were affected by the Denver air Edgar usually fights very aggressive, but he looked dead tired. Boetsch lost his fight mostly due to being exhausted. There's no doubt Kenny has a very strong mount and I'd say he was pretty smart by throwing a large volume of shots to prevent Joe from escaping. If he had tried to put some power in his shots, he would have created space for Joe to get out. I think the reason Joe stayed in that position was in part due to him being exhausted and that he wasn't getting hit with anything significant. Joe didn't complain after the fight, because he said that he could understand why the fight was stopped. That's not to say the fight should have been stopped or that he couldn't continue, because he definitely could have.Having a better angle and watching the replay of the Karo fight, it wasn't as bad of a stoppage as I thought, I think Alves likely would have finished him anyways, but there was a chance Karo could have recovered. I hope they gave Johnson some kind of bonus for that KO even if he didn't get KO of the Night. He's a beast, I don't know how he makes 170, but he's the biggest 170 fighter out there right now. He's 6"2 with a muscular frame and looks like he could probably even fight at 205 if he wanted.Anyone check out the Manny Gamburyan fight? His opponent came out at the start of the fight wanting to touch gloves and Manny reached his hand out like he was going to touch his glove, but threw a kick instead. Pretty damn pathetic to try and win a fight this way I believe. You don't have to touch gloves, but don't fake like you're going to and throw a shot instead.

[Jadaki 0]

it looked a bit high, but it also looked tight as hell too. Especially when he moved off to the side a bit to cinch it up even more

[ShakeZuma 585]

Boetsch looked pretty good until he gassed out...hard. Taking fights on short notice often is not a wise career move.

oh man I remember that. he was going at it so hard and then POW, nothing left. he went for a double leg and just kind of slid and stopped. it was a little sad.

[PrtyPSux 0]

Anyone check out the Manny Gamburyan fight? His opponent came out at the start of the fight wanting to touch gloves and Manny reached his hand out like he was going to touch his glove, but threw a kick instead. Pretty damn pathetic to try and win a fight this way I believe. You don't have to touch gloves, but don't fake like you're going to and throw a shot instead.

WOW are you serious? where'd u find the fight? UFC on demand? .....also, did he win the fight like this?

[Vick12 0]

Loool @ yelling "take yo face out his balls!" when the guy had him in a triangle.

Maybe the funniest thing I ever heard on TV. I was watching the replay of TUF last night and I missed that line the 1st time around but was waiting to hear it because of this thread. I almost pissed myself when I heard him say that.I am looking forward to the KO they have been talking about. It sounds like a dude was crying from it. Well...the look on his face can't be any better than the look on the Farm Boy's face after getting nearly decapitated!!!