Frustrating Live Game Experience

[bdc30 0]

Made the drive to one of the local Ontario casinos last night for some live poker and to watch the superbowl....I get settled in to one of the 2 tables of $10/20 LH that they have going at the time. As I'm getting a feel for it, the table seems super juici-licious.8 players to some preflop raised pots, a few guys with 2k+ on the table...All in all, a good atmosphere for some profitable TAG poker.As time went on though, I saw some things that were disturbing, to say the least. At my table of 10, it seemed like at least 5 or 6 of the guys (mostly asian)were very familiar with each other, and would check down pots to one another when it was just them left in the hand. I know that stuff happens a lot, so it's not a "huge" deal, but when half the table seems to be in on it, it kinda takes the fun out of it.One of the guys even went as far as rolling over one of his cards (showing he flopped top pair with a K on board) so that his buddy knew he was beaten (before the turn)and he played (checked) out the rest of the hand and was given the pot. Should an exposed hand (blatantly on purpose exposed, not oops, i dropped a card) not be a dead hand?? The other frustrating thing was that though he would check down to his buddies in situations like that, he'd bet relentlessly when anyone else was in the pot.(This was the guy with >2k) Him and 2 of his buddies managed to cap preflop, blindly, and then check down the hand. wtf?!?All of the floor staff and dealers seemed to know these guys, and seemed to get a good laugh out of what was going on.One dealer even was TEACHING the asian guys how to speak her language (vietnamese, I think) causing the "english only" at the table rule have no effect, as nobody hadANY clue whether these guys were trying to "learn" this language, or talking in their own whatever native tongue or wtf was going on.Anyways...I played for about an hour and a half, won $150, and got the hell out of there. I felt like it was those 5 against the rest of the table.Is it like this where you guys play as well??? Is there anything I should/could do?

[blakheart 3]

not a big deal in limit holdem in my opinion. It is not a tourney, and it is not NL, so I don't see a big harm in it.

[....Ian.... 0]

IMO this stuff shouldnt be allowed, everyone should play equally against everyone, problem is, its tough to get the brush to do anything about it

[Speedy Petey 0]

Where I play in Colorado there are a lot of asians that play in a 5-5 limit game. Thre game is crazy and almost every street is capped. I heard that they all know eachother and split up their money at the end of a session. I guesss they try to felt the 2 or 3 other players at the table not associated with them and split the profits. Who knows if it is true, though. I never play in that game!

[silkyjonson 1]

capping preflop then checking down is unethical and could be collusion.

[StuNami 0]

Just curious - were your legs broken? Were you tied to the chair? Duct taped to the table? Held against your will?I would have left (5 against 1 in a fist fight would be stupid let alone against ninjas). Just my $0.02Cheers!!

[bdc30 0]

I would have left (5 against 1 in a fist fight would be stupid let alone against ninjas). Just my $0.02

That's exactly what I did. I went there ready for an 8-10 hour session, and left an hour and a bit in.Waste of a drive (1hr each way) but at least I covered the cost of my gas...lol

[ThreeBet 0]

There was a thread the other day about this ... if they are raising blind and checking down then it absolutely is collusion (regardless if they split afterwards, although that is even worser!). I would inform the floor of my concerns and tell them you won't be back if they don't fix it. Probably wont do much by the sounds of it but you have to at least voice your strong dislike to blatant collusion.What you described happens all the time and needs to stop, although I've never seen half a table do it before, 2 people doing it is bad enough!

[nutzbuster 7]

capping preflop then checking down is unethical and could be collusion.

[CrazyJoe 0]

it's completely different if 2 people check it down to each other if they happen to get heads up, although i don't agree with it in principle, in cash game, it's not against the rules. But people that raise/reraise to get heads up with each other and then check it down is absolutely collusion and wrong.

[Northie 0]

Don't play at Brantford. It's not like any of the dealers/floormen would have done anything if you made a fuss about this. Like others said, good choice in deciding to just bail on the game.Edit: If it wasn't Brantford, sorry. I was just assuming.

[Sea Wasp 0]

This situation as you described it is unacceptable and the casino staff should put a stop to it. As it seems they are not too fussed with it then i would seriously consider never playing there.

[blakheart 3]

Yeah- I misread the op originally. If they end up HU then checking it down from ther doesn't bother me. But if they are running over the table with preflop raises first, that isn't cool.

[martinmc 0]

Was this Brantford? If it was then you just have to leave or risk tighening up the game. The players your talking about are friendly but explosive and it's easy to turn them on each other with comments about one being better then the other or one being afraid of the other. But you won't be having in the dark raises and the big pots you discribed. They will all get TAG and be tough to beat. As for the casino staff most of them are great but there are a few assholes amongst them as with every poker room.

[goose 0]

Don't play at Brantford. It's not like any of the dealers/floormen would have done anything if you made a fuss about this. Like others said, good choice in deciding to just bail on the game.Edit: If it wasn't Brantford, sorry. I was just assuming.

That's funny, because after reading the post I had thought it was Brantford too for some reason... probably wasn't Fallsview because they run a good game, it wasn't CN because they don't spread 10/20... guess it could be Rama, but it sounds more like Brantford or another charity.

[ThreeBet 0]

That's funny, because after reading the post I had thought it was Brantford too for some reason... probably wasn't Fallsview because they run a good game, it wasn't CN because they don't spread 10/20... guess it could be Rama, but it sounds more like Brantford or another charity.

All I know is it sounds like complete bullchit that should be shutdown!

[bdc30 0]

Was this Brantford?

Yes, I shoulda mentioned that in the op.

[Flushgarden 0]

Tell the poker room manager that you planned to play for 8-10 hours but you're leaving after an hour and a half because of what is going on. And say that you're not to enthused about ever coming back. If he wants to lose his customers because of this then its his decision. It wouldnt hurt to tell him that you talked to some other players and they feel the same way.

[thehidden 0]

Tell the poker room manager that you planned to play for 8-10 hours but you're leaving after an hour and a half because of what is going on. And say that you're not to enthused about ever coming back. If he wants to lose his customers because of this then its his decision. It wouldnt hurt to tell him that you talked to some other players and they feel the same way.

this will not work in Ontario Casino's, they could not care less! A dealer swore at me on the table at Rama and I told the floor staff and the pit boss, etc, and they did **** all!Ira

[finztotheleft 0]

This situation as you described it is unacceptable and the casino staff should put a stop to it. As it seems they are not too fussed with it then i would seriously consider never playing there.

Absolutely !

[martinmc 0]

Tell the poker room manager that you planned to play for 8-10 hours but you're leaving after an hour and a half because of what is going on. And say that you're not to enthused about ever coming back. If he wants to lose his customers because of this then its his decision. It wouldnt hurt to tell him that you talked to some other players and they feel the same way.

I don't think they'll will care when there's a 15 person list. The player's the OP is mentioning put in 40 - 60 hrs a week so I also don't think they'll care about 1 guy they've never seen before and his 10 hours.

[Jeepster80125 0]

Where I play in Colorado there are a lot of asians that play in a 5-5 limit game. The game is crazy and almost every street is capped. I heard that they all know eachother and split up their money at the end of a session. I guess they try to felt the 2 or 3 other players at the table not associated with them and split the profits. Who knows if it is true, though. I never play in that game!

I've sat in this game at the Lodge in blackhawk. Lucky for me, I was getting lots of monster hands and walked with a grand. I've seen instances where I've seen three or four people playing super aggressive with others at the table, and not with each other. They would cap every street just to push out anyone else, and these same four people would constantly take down pots. The four of them would play any four cards, and they won lots of pots. After last call, I saw them in the parking lot, adding up and dividing their winnings.Yeah, it happens, but if you can't handle it, then you should find another game. I doubt the casino would do anything, seeing as they are regulars and probably contribute a lot to the rake.

[rogerwilco 0]

I've sat in this game at the Lodge in blackhawk. Lucky for me, I was getting lots of monster hands and walked with a grand. I've seen instances where I've seen three or four people playing super aggressive with others at the table, and not with each other. They would cap every street just to push out anyone else, and these same four people would constantly take down pots. The four of them would play any four cards, and they won lots of pots. After last call, I saw them in the parking lot, adding up and dividing their winnings.

Is that tactic not exploitable if you know about it? Obviously there would be wild swings, but if you play tightly and push only the right hands, that sounds like you could have an edge over them very easily.

[TwoFourOffsuit 0]

You've got to advise the brush of this. This is clear and obvious collusion, which is being tacitly accepted by the dealer, a massive no-no.Any cards rolled pre-showdown should be an automatic fold, and speaking languages other than English at the table is also universally banned for obvious reasons. If the brush does nothing, find out what gaming commission governs the casino, and advise them. Also, advise them if any action they take results in you being banned from the casino, as that's blackmail.

[Jeepster80125 0]

Is that tactic not exploitable if you know about it? Obviously there would be wild swings, but if you play tightly and push only the right hands, that sounds like you could have an edge over them very easily.

It's very exploitable, but it can get very expensive. Most of the fish at the 5-5 limit tables will buy in for a couple hundred max, and when it's capped preflop and on every street, even the fish with A A is not in a good position with the 4 guys playing any two cards. Sure, the fish will win hands every once in a while, but for the most part, they would just bully people out, or take their chances with 8 random cards. Unless I held the nuts or the nut draw on the flop, I wouldn't go any further, but lots of amateurs would call all the way down with a big pocket pair, or a draw. I made money, but these super aggro guys made tons more. If I had the bankroll to play that much, I would have, but I didn't bring enough cash to be such a donkey.