Ak On Bubble

[RISEorFall 0]

Full Tilt poker $5 MTTI don't remember exact details but these are close45 paid, no decent money til final 2 tables47 left, I'm about 14th in chips with about 16Kboth villains in hand have about 1K less than meUTG has been playing fairly tight, but has shown down a couple J9o type handsLP has been playing tightneither has been trying to steal blindsI am fairly confident I can outplay both of them postflopBlinds 200/400 with ante of 50RISE is BB with A K pf (pot 1050): UTG raises to 1200, folds around to LP who cold calls, folds around to RISE who raises to 5000, UTG and LP callFlop: (pot 15650) A Q 8 rainbowRISE checks, UTG checks, LP bets 5000, RISE raises to 11000 all-in.....I really wasn't sure what to do here. I think the reraise preflop to 5k sucks, I think I should've either cold called or raised more (maybe pushed?)I intended to c/r this flop regardless who bet. I don't think this kind of flop goes unbet in this big of a pot. but just pushing might have been better?I haven't played NL tournaments in a while, been building a BR playing limit HE

[bdc30 0]

I think the reraise preflop to 5k sucks

Same here. You commit 1/3 of your chips to the pot preflop. Either push to try and isolate somebody or just flat call and see what the flop brings. When the flop is 894 rainbow, you can get away cheaply.

[rogerwilco 0]

Same here. You commit 1/3 of your chips to the pot preflop. Either push to try and isolate somebody or just flat call and see what the flop brings. When the flop is 894 rainbow, you can get away cheaply.

Can/should he get away from his hand on this flop though?

[bdc30 0]

Can or should he get away from this now? Nope. Not as played. You played AK preflop, and you're talking about getting away from it WHEN the ace flops??

[rogerwilco 0]

Can or should he get away from this now? Nope. Not as played. You played AK preflop, and you're talking about getting away from it WHEN the ace flops??

Yeah, then the check-raise is the best play I guess, because it improves the chances that on of the other commits his chips to the pot as well.

[Mercury69 3]

I'm calling from BB on this hand, minly to see what the flop texture is, but a raise is not out of line (pushing is best). The fact you got two callers is an issue. Not only that, but one of them led out with a 5K bet (after two checks), indicating (most likely) a better hand. It could be a steal, thinking you missed the flop, but...What could he have? AQ hits that flop harder than a high school coach hits the head cheerleader. Pocket 8's? Entirely likely and not out of line with the preflop action. A8s is much less likely, but people play crazy enough to increase the possibility.My guess is that you're beat and you need to lay it down. AK is very good looking, but don't get married to it, 'cause it'll **** around on you.

[cdipierr 0]

I'm calling from BB on this hand, minly to see what the flop texture is, but a raise is not out of line (pushing is best). The fact you got two callers is an issue. Not only that, but one of them led out with a 5K bet (after two checks), indicating (most likely) a better hand. It could be a steal, thinking you missed the flop, but...What could he have? AQ hits that flop harder than a high school coach hits the head cheerleader. Pocket 8's? Entirely likely and not out of line with the preflop action. A8s is much less likely, but people play crazy enough to increase the possibility.My guess is that you're beat and you need to lay it down. AK is very good looking, but don't get married to it, 'cause it'll **** around on you.

The problem with this line is that if we just called out of the BB, then we have no idea what to do if it goes check, check, bet 5k on the flop. There's no way the 5k bet puts us on AK, so now we have to shove anyway and we're just as dead to AQ or 88. So given that's the case there, I don't see how we lay it down here. Can you be sure we're not dealing with KK or JJ? As it is, I probably shove preflop in a cheap tournament. If we double up from 14th place we're close the chip lead and headed for a likely final table. If it's a big deal to sneak into the money, just fold this preflop.

[Balloon guy 158]

What hand can LP have that would only call to a raise, then cal to a reraise and a cold call AND pot commit himself with after flop? All while on the bubble?88 seems most likelyAQ, only if he's real bad or hates money.AA, KK, QQ not likely he wouldn't re-raise after you popped it to 5,000 pre-flop.So unless he really sucks, you are beat.

[copernicus 0]

Preflop is limp or push. If you limp the pot is much smaller, and you can lead the flop without getting pot committed. If theres still aggressive play after the flop lead I think you can fold...reluctantly...but a K flop is far better than an A flop.

[ChrisRichey 1]

Preflop is limp or push. If you limp the pot is much smaller, and you can lead the flop without getting pot committed. If theres still aggressive play after the flop lead I think you can fold...reluctantly...but a K flop is far better than an A flop.

I agree with this. If my math is correct, there's 3600 in the pot when it gets to you, which is almost 1/4 of our stack. I push pf.

[RISEorFall 0]

Preflop is limp or push. If you limp the pot is much smaller, and you can lead the flop without getting pot committed. If theres still aggressive play after the flop lead I think you can fold...reluctantly...but a K flop is far better than an A flop.

you bring up pot size control which is one thing i think i really need to work on as i havent played NL much latelybut say I limp and bet the flop, then get raised. Is it AQ more often than AJ or AT that I should be folding to the raise?also, since everyone seems to agree that it's either limp or push preflop, which would be better? Barely making the money does nothing for my bankroll, only final table money actually affects it, I'm just playing smaller tourneys to get my NL legs back.

[copernicus 0]

you bring up pot size control which is one thing i think i really need to work on as i havent played NL much latelybut say I limp and bet the flop, then get raised. Is it AQ more often than AJ or AT that I should be folding to the raise?also, since everyone seems to agree that it's either limp or push preflop, which would be better? Barely making the money does nothing for my bankroll, only final table money actually affects it, I'm just playing smaller tourneys to get my NL legs back.

I think youve got enough chips to limp and play post flop here, even OOP. The pot is now 4650. Bet 3000 to the AQ flop. I think this represents a much bigger hand to LP than the original line, and youve invested less chips. If he plays back at you knowing you liked the flop you are more certain that you are beaten. The original line (raise preflop, check flop) is consistent with underpairs to this board, even moreso than AK, because youve willingly abandoned the lead to an A flop.

[Bubba83 0]

I like just calling from the blinds with AK if our stack is a good size. Leading for 3,000 on that flop seems about right, as per copernicus' suggestion. If LP moves in though I have no idea what I'm doing. It would come down to my read on that players postflop play. You said he is tight, but did that mean just preflop or postflop as well?Some of the questions I normally ask myself when my hand is strong but I might lay down are...Would he push all-in on a draw? (not likely here since it would only be a gutshot)Is he observant enough to know how strong my bet was?Would he raise all-in with just top pair?Is he capable of making this play with air?It would also be important to know for this hand the way it played out preflop, what kind of hands he calls a raise with in position. Would he call with a somewhat poor ace even though a tight player raised up front? Would he re-raise a hand like AQ QQ or 88, or just call?

[tskillz187 0]

I shove PF everytime. You can pick up 20% of your stack if they fold, and you don't have to play OOP against similar stacks with a hand like AK. If I did just limp I go broke everytime a flop of this texture comes out.

[ChrisRichey 1]

Cop, what was Sklansky's rule of slowplaying again? If we limp this pf, there's no way we're getting away from it on this flop. If we lead, we are definitely not getting any respect for a big A on this board, so we're going to probably get raised by ANY A. I'm waaaaay more scared of A8 than AQ on this flop. That being said, I still like a push pf, especially if you even consider folding on an A high flop when you limp.

[copernicus 0]

Cop, what was Sklansky's rule of slowplaying again? If we limp this pf, there's no way we're getting away from it on this flop. If we lead, we are definitely not getting any respect for a big A on this board, so we're going to probably get raised by ANY A. I'm waaaaay more scared of A8 than AQ on this flop. That being said, I still like a push pf, especially if you even consider folding on an A high flop when you limp.

Not sure what Sklansky "rule" youre referring to. I made a brilliant <cough cough> slowplaying post around a year ago, which I wish I could find because I think there are some things that Ive forgotten but the basic thoughts were:You dont slowplay if:The pot is already signficant to your stackVillains that catch up are also likely to pass youYoure likely to get calls anyway, so you can build the pot slowlyOh...The Skansky rule you mean (and I guess it does apply here) is that if you show weakness by slowplaying, you can't fold when someone gets aggressive in the face of that weakness.

[ChrisRichey 1]

Oh...The Skansky rule you mean (and I guess it does apply here) is that if you show weakness by slowplaying, you can't fold when someone gets aggressive in the face of that weakness.

That's the one.