Responding To The Nfl Blog

[Loismustdie 0]

I saw that special as well,and wouldn't be suprised if it has some sort of spin on it- it's no secret that Gumbel has had a hard on for Upshaw for years. There are 2 sides to every story- for example, it would seem to me that both of those gentleman could easily do what I do if they wanted to. I don't need to be in any kind of shape to be a broker.

[Jam-Fly 8]

I think Daniel beliefs too much of what he sees on TV. One sided arguments can be used to make anything seem real E.g. my friend once saw a documentary entitled 'did the titanic really sink?' and he came up to me and said seriously, it was rly believable. You've got to be kidding me.Calling the NFL a disgrace because of one hour long show is a little extreme. I don't doubt that those guys were in agony, or that the NFL were in the wrong, but as I said, one sided evidence can proove almost anything.

[GrouchPotato 0]

Benefits flowing from a pension plan are based on years worked and amount made while working. DN seems to be advocating a plan whereby disablity payments are made to all players who are injured and cannot work regardless of years in the league. The idea behind a pension plan is that it is self sustaining. In order to make that work, you have to have strict requirements on who gets benefits. Simply making payments to those who "need held" is not feasible in the long run. The pension plan would go broke.Now, that is not to say that the NFL is not capable of taking care of these dudes. I just don't know of any American companies that pay out more benefits than they have to. There are lots of sad stories regarding the American worker. The true disgrace is the fact that 50 million working americans do not have health insurance.

[pokerfan1080 0]

THE MLB was like this in the 50's and 60's too. Players who played back then had no pention and once they retired, they had to go find another job somewhere, and get health insurance. Luckily there is an organization called B.A.T. (Baseball assisatance team) who helps these players. They hold an annual dinner every year in NYC and I went 3 years ago for the first time then they next year. The cost off a ticket w as around $600, but someone took me w/ my dad and brother that year. For the 1st 2 hours we were able to get autographs from older players, most of who are famous including; Sandy Koufax, Joe Morgan, (the guys who hit the shot heard round the world, cant think of his name), Tommy Lasorda...and the list goes on. During the dinner, a former player, who I also forgot his name told a story of how B.A.T. helped save his son. He had played in the 50's and had no insurance or pention. His son, was diagnosed with cancer around 2000. B.A.T. basically saved the man's life by paying for his medical bills. But they also help 100s of other players. Im very surprised the NFL doesnt have this

Wasn't BAT started by the players, not MLB?NFL players are free to start such a program too.

[Balloon guy 158]

Wasn't BAT started by the players, not MLB?NFL players are free to start such a program too.

Much better if the governement runs this program.Look how good of a job they are doing with the War, Online Gambling, DMV, and Election Fraud.

[eYank 0]

Wasn't BAT started by the players, not MLB?NFL players are free to start such a program too.

yeah i think ur right but still, if so many people are having problems you think something like this would startalso...this is the reason Tiki Barber is retiring, he doesnt want to be like some of those guys and be in pain the rest of his life

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Some of you guys are TOTALLY missing the point and are making arguments that aren't based on the issue. Forget about whether they planned ahead, etc., the FACT is, they have signed CONTRACTS that supposedly provide them with health care benefits and the league isn't paying them! They aren't asking for extra money, they are simply asking for the money that they are ENTITLED to. Any other argument doesn't holw water, this is simply fact. 9000 retired players... you mean to tell me that only 144 of them have suffered injuries serious enough to warrant their health insurance being covered? It's not possible. Even if a guy did save up 30 million dollars, but in the end was left unable to work, he is STILL entitled to the money he is owed by the NFL. The NFL is cheating the players by not paying them, all other issues are totally irrelevant.

[rgold79 0]

Some of you guys are TOTALLY missing the point and are making arguments that aren't based on the issue. Forget about whether they planned ahead, etc., the FACT is, they have signed CONTRACTS that supposedly provide them with health care benefits and the league isn't paying them! They aren't asking for extra money, they are simply asking for the money that they are ENTITLED to. Any other argument doesn't holw water, this is simply fact. 9000 retired players... you mean to tell me that only 144 of them have suffered injuries serious enough to warrant their health insurance being covered? It's not possible. Even if a guy did save up 30 million dollars, but in the end was left unable to work, he is STILL entitled to the money he is owed by the NFL. The NFL is cheating the players by not paying them, all other issues are totally irrelevant.

This may be slightly off topic, but if you think this is bad you should see how the state and federal governments are refusing disability payments and medical coverage to police and firemen who served as first responders on 9/11 and subsequently became ill from breathing toxic air for months while working in the recovery zone. These people played a tremendous role in helping the country recover from that disaster and now many of them are being cast aside.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Its ridiculous to think that these folks can't think ahead. I don't agree with DN one bit about the NFL needing to make a change because as much as it is on their shoulders to make a change the people it has affected needed to plan ahead. Where were the complaints when they were living in the nice houses driving nice cars? To say the NFL is a disgrace is nonsense. To say it is a very cutthroat business would be more up the right alley. Lets see, from Wikipedia, who used an ESPN list as a source "Dobler is best known as arguably the dirtiest player in NFL history." So a guy who made a living cheating and trying to hurt others outside the rules deserves my sympathy?Even if they didnt get paid the million dollar contracts the league minimum for a player is still more than most will make in a year. if im a rookie this year i make 260,000 dollars. Thats more than the president makes. To call the NFL a disgrace is just asinine, as you should include poor planning by people playing a game where they push their bodies to the max know that future problems may be in the works. Look at Muhammed Ali. The man was a great boxer but because of his profession is now disabled. as sad as it is its the chance contact sport athletes take. I dont know much about hockey but i would assume a lot of those players have health problems afterwards to. Does the NHL compensate better than the NFL?

You are completely missing the point. Here: Let's say that I hire you to work for me. You have a contract that says you'll have a dental plan that will cover dental problems. Three years later, your teeth are a mess. You get three doctors to say that you need a root canal and a whole bunch of other work. Then I bring in my "special doctor" who looks at your teeth and says, "No, it looks like you'll still be able to eat food with those. Application denied." Dude, it's pretty simple, the NFL doctors are completely screwing the players, and it's highly likely that they are being pressured into doing so by league heads that want to cut costs. It's disgusting. I don't care if they planned ahead or not, NONE of that even matters. The fact ism these players are entitled to health care and the NFL isn't paying for it.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

This may be slightly off topic, but if you think this is bad you should see how the state and federal governments are refusing disability payments and medical coverage to police and firemen who served as first responders on 9/11 and subsequently became ill from breathing toxic air for months while working in the recovery zone. These people played a tremendous role in helping the country recover from that disaster and now many of them are being cast aside.

I did see that and you are right, it is even more disgusting. They claim that the HEROES working down there on 9/11 likely weren't wearing their protective masks so they aren't entitled to health care. We're talking about legitimate HEROES here, and they are tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper.

[Derswick 0]

Fro those of you who think Daniel is way off base pehaps you should listne to Jerry Kramer, the Green Bay Paker great. As well if you love the sport and want to help out I'd suggest that you visit his site jerrykramer.com not so coincidentlay Jerry was interviewed on the Jim Rome show today and if you guys have an oppertuinty I'd suggest you listen to his interview, I believe it may be avaliavle on Jim's web site in a Pod cast.DN perhaps you could put this link into your blog as well. http://www.jerrykramer.com/index.htmlBest Wishes to all.

[nutzbuster 7]

I did see that and you are right, it is even more disgusting. They claim that the HEROES working down there on 9/11 likely weren't wearing their protective masks so they aren't entitled to health care. We're talking about legitimate HEROES here, and they are tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper.

Amen to this! Inexcusable. Just watch that Nicklaus Cage movie about 911 and you'll see a glimpse of how brave those folks really were. They were scared to death and still went in those buildings. Beyond heroics in my book. Do not miss this film. Sorry for the semi-thread highjack but it is a great movie without a political agenda that everyone should see. And its a true story.And the NFL needs to pull their heads out of their assses. Just incredible....

[MemBirdman 0]

I did see that and you are right, it is even more disgusting. They claim that the HEROES working down there on 9/11 likely weren't wearing their protective masks so they aren't entitled to health care. We're talking about legitimate HEROES here, and they are tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper.

Those things that you listed, I agree completely with you, DN. They players are getting screwed by the NFL Lawyers and it's a travesty.I can't help but think of the whole WPT issue, though. The players in the WPT case say that the WPT is using their likenesses and marketability to enhance the brand, but the players aren't getting treated fairly in the deal...at least, that's how I understand the case. And you've sided with the brand instead of the players for reasons that don't need to be dealt with here in Analogyland.Here, the former players in the NFL are having their likenesses and marketability used to enhance the brand, but the players aren't getting treated fairly in the deal. So here, you side with the players and not the brand.I don't dispute that there are issues in both cases and that they don't match exactly. But I do want to point out that in the WPT issue, the players have said they're doing it "for the players," meaning they are creating an Us vs. Them issue, with players on one side and the WPT on the other. And you've gone on record saying that it's not the case, that these are individual instances that should be treated as such and should not reflect the business practices of the brand at large.BUT, in the NFL case, you're saying it IS an Us vs. Them issue, that these are not individual instances but that the entirety of the NFL is to be held responsible for these circumstances.All of that longwindedness is to say: I don't blame the NFL as a whole for these instances.~~Check out gamesover.org. Former Packer Ken Ruttgers started this organization to try to work with players whose careers are over, be it in High School, College or after the Pro level. He saw a need and he's addressing it. I think it may help balance out your opinions right now.

[Oziumrules 0]

Amen to this! Inexcusable. Just watch that Nicklaus Cage movie about 911 and you'll see a glimpse of how brave those folks really were. They were scared to death and still went in those buildings. Beyond heroics in my book. Do not miss this film. Sorry for the semi-thread highjack but it is a great movie without a political agenda that everyone should see. And its a true story.And the NFL needs to pull their heads out of their assses. Just incredible....

Must be a golfer!

[GrouchPotato 0]

You are completely missing the point. Here: Let's say that I hire you to work for me. You have a contract that says you'll have a dental plan that will cover dental problems. Three years later, your teeth are a mess. You get three doctors to say that you need a root canal and a whole bunch of other work. Then I bring in my "special doctor" who looks at your teeth and says, "No, it looks like you'll still be able to eat food with those. Application denied." Dude, it's pretty simple, the NFL doctors are completely screwing the players, and it's highly likely that they are being pressured into doing so by league heads that want to cut costs. It's disgusting. I don't care if they planned ahead or not, NONE of that even matters. The fact ism these players are entitled to health care and the NFL isn't paying for it.

I think you are missing the point, bro. These dudes may not qualify under the contract for the benefits they are asking for. I'm not playing the lawyer card, but I can tell you from personal experience that disability applicants can find doctors to say anything they want. It is very, very hard to qualify for permanent disability benefits under a pension plan. You basically have to show that you cannot work at all. In a moral sense you are correct, it sucks that these dudes can't get full disability benefits, but to say the NFL is in violation of the contract is simply wrong. Certainly no judge or jury has ever found that to be the case.So yes, the NFL should take care of its own, but in the real world very few companies choose to do that.

[logic411 0]

Step 1: Step down from SoapboxStep 2: Remove Soapbox from homeStep 3: Burn SoapboxStep 4: Feed starving childrenStep 5: Build boat for river I am crying for NFL players.That's All

[Birdsoft 0]

they have signed CONTRACTS that supposedly provide them with health care benefits and the league isn't paying them!

I usually agree with you , but I didnt agree with this UNLESS what you have just claimed is true??? If it is, then the NFL is at total Fault!But understand that most of us work/ed for other real companies, and one thing is a given in these situations that we assume to also be true for these X-NFL players, which is the background for a lot of these posts. When you sign a contract for work, the health insurance agreement is rarely if ever guaranteed for the rest of your life. If you are no longer in their employment then it is not the responsibility of that company to continue to cover you. If I could find a company that would hire me for 3 years, and then cover medical for the rest of my life, well where do I sign up. But if they actually have a contract from the 60s saying this then yes I agree... (and of course legitimate disability that can be undeniabley directly linked is also the NFL's responsibility, but who's to say that PlayerX becoming say a lumberjack for 15 years wasnt also to blame for him not being able to work when he's in his 60s)..But if it was spun on this possibly one-sided show to make you think this, and it is not true, well it stands to reason what everyone else is saying... Yes, I agree that the NFL has the ability to help these guys out and it is not good press and a little bit sour that they don't. But if you look at it more business wise it seems like an everyday thing. A lot of little guys that made the business what it is get stepped on or forgotten. And yes, in most cases Players Organizations are the most help to these older players so Im suprised the NFL players havent stepped up more.(oh and awesome job in Tunica)Brian(Birdsoft)

[Loismustdie 0]

I never gathered from that Gumble rip Gene Upshaw special that medical wasn't being covered. I don't think that was ever even said.

[I'MFULLOFCHIP 0]

This story about the special NFL doctor reminds me of a line from the movie Papillon when a doctor examines prisoners for fitness: “Next. Next… You’re fine. Next. I must be better than I feel. You're in wonderful shape. How do you fail an examination like this?” Just another case of a multi-millionaire dollar business screwing those who built their very foundation. All they care about is money. The only reason the NFL supports the United Way is to give themselves good PR. Half the players are on illegal drugs. They’re no better than horses who get juiced to win a million dollar race. Of course, the difference is horses don’t have a choice; humans do.

[Tiltinagain 973]

I think you are missing the point, bro. These dudes may not qualify under the contract for the benefits they are asking for. I'm not playing the lawyer card, but I can tell you from personal experience that disability applicants can find doctors to say anything they want. It is very, very hard to qualify for permanent disability benefits under a pension plan. You basically have to show that you cannot work at all. In a moral sense you are correct, it sucks that these dudes can't get full disability benefits, but to say the NFL is in violation of the contract is simply wrong. Certainly no judge or jury has ever found that to be the case.So yes, the NFL should take care of its own, but in the real world very few companies choose to do that.

QFTWatching this show all you see is the ex players side of this. How do you know they qualify? Because Their doctors say so? Please.Let's look at an example......you sign a contract to represent a poker site, turns out the site is run very well, attracts lots of players and makes many, many times the revenues projected. You look at your contract and decide it isn't fair because, even though you agreed to the terms of the contract when you signed it, it isn't "fair" now because, based on the money the site is making, you should be making much more money for your endorsement. The site refuses so your only alternative is to go public with the "injustice" to try to get this prominent site to bend to public pressure and pay you more than the contract allows since no court of law in the country is going to rule in your favor.Just a theory.

[obrien64 0]

You are completely missing the point. Here: Let's say that I hire you to work for me. You have a contract that says you'll have a dental plan that will cover dental problems. Three years later, your teeth are a mess. You get three doctors to say that you need a root canal and a whole bunch of other work. Then I bring in my "special doctor" who looks at your teeth and says, "No, it looks like you'll still be able to eat food with those. Application denied." Dude, it's pretty simple, the NFL doctors are completely screwing the players, and it's highly likely that they are being pressured into doing so by league heads that want to cut costs. It's disgusting. I don't care if they planned ahead or not, NONE of that even matters. The fact ism these players are entitled to health care and the NFL isn't paying for it.

You are right in the fact that the league is probably trying to cut costs, but dont even act like its only an NFL problem. This happens almost everywhere. How often do you hear about a veteran not getting the proper care after he put his life on the line for the country? it happens a lot. Furthermore I think that you may have taken too much from this documentary (even though i have not seen it, i will admit) But look at it like this. You hire me and give me a dental plan. My teeth get messed up and i go to the dentist. he takes a look at my form and sees that Daniel Negreanu, or Full Contact Poker is paying for my work. That dentist knows you are worth a quite a bit of money and that might influence him. As a professional it shouldnt but to act as if it doesnt happen is a little naive. So this documentary may not have covered both sides in that regard as there are plenty of doctors who diagnose the worst to get the insurance money when some work isnt necessary. If i was a doctor and someone said that the billion dollar empire that is the NFL was footing the bill then I might be a bit hasty in my diagnosis. So the NFL comes in and says that no, the injury isnt that severe and that painkillers would do just as good as the surgery. Why is that any less possible than the NFL (which im sure has a bit of money to spare) stiffing injured people?

[jooka 0]

Ive read up a liltle bit about what DN is talking about and I agree it sucks, but on the same hand he is talking about an immerging business(then) comparitively to now. business then was like that, its not just the nfl. Should they do something about it? sure. Should the rest of the business world? sure. im gonna say I havent researched it, but Id bet DN's favorite sport hockey aint so clean in this subject either.(I really dont know but I wouldnt be suprised either) So I get the NFL should do better, so should the most of the world. anyway, I have another question Ive been wanting to ask and maybe DN will see it here. How many losers does it take to have a winner in poker?

[grocery_mony 8]

Football is an abosolutely brutal sport. Just about everyone I know who played high school ball 10 years ago have had lasting effects today. Bad backs, screwed up knees, early arthretis. Anyone who plays that game has my total respect. You play football at the highest level you are sacrafising your body long term. Football players have the absolute worst union of all the sports. Everyone sees the big numbers thrown around to the leauges elite, but the grunts on the line or running full speed into each other on special teams ussually dont make much money in a very short careers. The very least they deserve is to have the health problems taking care of that were directly caused on the field making footbal the most lucrative sport in north america. Shame on there union because that should be priority #1.

[Loismustdie 0]

Football is an abosolutely brutal sport. Just about everyone I know who played high school ball 10 years ago have had lasting effects today. Bad backs, screwed up knees, early arthretis. Anyone who plays that game has my total respect. You play football at the highest level you are sacrafising your body long term. Football players have the absolute worst union of all the sports. Everyone sees the big numbers thrown around to the leauges elite, but the grunts on the line or running full speed into each other on special teams ussually dont make much money in a very short careers. The very least they deserve is to have the health problems taking care of that were directly caused on the field making footbal the most lucrative sport in north america. Shame on there union because that should be priority #1.

There health insurance is covered.

[pokerfan1080 0]

Some of you guys are TOTALLY missing the point and are making arguments that aren't based on the issue. Forget about whether they planned ahead, etc., the FACT is, they have signed CONTRACTS that supposedly provide them with health care benefits and the league isn't paying them! They aren't asking for extra money, they are simply asking for the money that they are ENTITLED to. Any other argument doesn't holw water, this is simply fact. 9000 retired players... you mean to tell me that only 144 of them have suffered injuries serious enough to warrant their health insurance being covered? It's not possible. Even if a guy did save up 30 million dollars, but in the end was left unable to work, he is STILL entitled to the money he is owed by the NFL. The NFL is cheating the players by not paying them, all other issues are totally irrelevant.

I find this interesting because everything I've read says nothing about players being denied what the league owes them. The players are getting their pension benefits as contracted way back when, and their pensions have even been increased a few times since they retired. Can you post a link to something that states otherwise?