PositionPlayer 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Top Banks Ordered to Hand Over Records Related to Online Gambling Jenny Davey, Times of LondonTHE US Department of Justice has ordered the world’s biggest investment banks, accountants and law firms to hand over all e-mails, telephone records and papers connected with internet gaming firms as part of an investigation into illegal online gambling in America. HSBC, Dresdner Kleinwort, Credit Suisse and Deutsche Bank are known to be among the banks that have been issued with subpoenas — official requests for information — as part of a worldwide hunt to build a case against those who benefited from illegal online gambling. Britain has been the fundraising centre for many internet gambling companies, with a number of international operators listing their shares in London. Fortunes were made by the founders of internet gaming stocks, including Party Gaming, 888.com and Betonsports.com, and advisers pocketed huge fees. The Department of Justice first issued subpoenas in October, only days after George Bush sounded the death knell for America’s $6 billion (£3.2 billion) internet gambling industry by signing legislation banning all related transactions. But until now the investigation has been kept secret. According to City sources, the subpoenas have continued to arrive over the past few weeks. It is thought that some investors in online gambling companies, including Party Gaming and 888.com, have also been hit with requests for information. One source said: “To say the situation is sensitive is the understatement of the decade. The problem is, even if you know you have done nothing wrong, you have no powers of resistance.” He added: “You can quickly go from being a bystander to a target, so even if you are bomb- proof, you have to assume you are subject to hostility.” The source went on: “The Department of Justice has taken a shotgun, not a rifle approach in relation to lots of gaming companies and has just asked everyone to hand over all the information they have.” The request could force banks and other advisers or former advisers to the gambling companies to hand over hundreds of thousands of e-mails and files to American investigators. Another City source familiar with the circumstances said: “There is no doubt at all that this situation is escalating. This has definitely got legs.” Another source described it as one of the biggest “fishing expeditions” ever undertaken by the Department of Justice. Vast riches were made by the founders of internet gambling companies, including Party Gaming and 888.com. Party Gaming floated with a value of £5 billion in the summer of 2005, propelling it straight into the FTSE 100 index ahead of British household names such as British Airways and ICI. Its four founder shareholders — Anurag Dikshit, Vikrant Bhargava, Ruth Parasol and her husband, Russ DeLeon — took out £797m and valued their remaining shares at about £ 3.3 billion. Meanwhile, 888.com, which floated in September 2005 valued at £590m, created another batch of dotcom millionaires, this time among the company’s Israeli founders. Avi and Aharon Shaked received more than £10m from selling a quarter of their 70% stake. The probe by the Department of Justice will spark outrage in Britain, coming so soon after the extradition of the so-called NatWest Three to America. “UK plc should be really worried about yet another encroachment of American investigators on to British territory. The City is clearly under threat,” said one British businessman who asked not to be named. The subpoenas do not reveal whom the Department of Justice is targeting. But some believe the ultimate goal is to find information incriminating the founders of the online gambling firms. The inquiry vindicates the City professionals who refused to act for internet gambling firms because of the uncertainty about its legality in America. Banks that have been subpoenaed have lined up lawyers to act for them. None of the banks involved would comment on the subpoenas. The Department of Justice also said that its policy was not to comment about ongoing investigations. HSBC advised 888.com, one of the most high-profile internet gambling companies, on its flotation. Credit Suisse advised the original shareholders of 888.com on their strategic options before the flotation. Deutsche is co-broker to Party Gaming, while Dresdner advised on its public listing.----Originally published to Gambling911.com January 20, 2007 9:43 pm ETLink: http://www.gambling911.com/Banks-Online-Gambling-012007.html Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Each day that goes by this seems to get worse and worse and worse.I can't believe the IRS isn't looking for/at DN, Ivey, Lederer, Brunson, et al. yet.You can bet they have more up their sleeves. It's sad.Hurray for Canada - Land of the free! Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 at this point i almost hope these morons have an angle to make money themselvesi'd hate to think they spend so much effort trying to stop people from gambling with their own money Link to post Share on other sites
PositionPlayer 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 At this point I can't tell if it's just a scare tactic like the RIAA ... or if they will seriously pursue fining and jailing people. I'm basically all set to abandon online poker completely until the smoke clears. Foxwoods isn't THAT far from my house.Sigh. Link to post Share on other sites
amarillotg 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Hurray for Canada - Land of the free!probably not for long. history shows that we sheepishly follow behind whatever the US does. hopefully this is not one of those times. Link to post Share on other sites
aucu 3 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 probably not for long. history shows that we sheepishly follow behind whatever the US does. hopefully this is not one of those times.Not quite if you look at gay rights, abortion or drugs. Link to post Share on other sites
llou 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I suspect it will take some serious political activism in the US to reverse this trend. It will need to occur at the grass-roots level as well as at the upper levels. Establishing the PPA was a good start, but that group (or others) need to take it up a few notches to be ready for the big fight that is brewing. We need to hire some "squeaky clean" experts to represent us in Washington and lead the grass roots campaign. I don't see that happening, but hope that it is happening out of view of the public at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
mclark340 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Not quite if you look at gay rights, abortion or drugs.Enough said...if Canada = land of the free, then I prefer to be enslaved. Link to post Share on other sites
aucu 3 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Enough said...if Canada = land of the free, then I prefer to be enslaved.Be care full what you wish for.It seems that some in the DOJ are seeing this as a career builder, go after gambling and build a name for yourself a la Guiliani (sp?)Watch out it's picking up momentum. Link to post Share on other sites
crazyplaya6 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I find it hilarious that you americans resent the notion of living in canada. Typical american nature to think your country is the be-all end-all of nations. Land of the free my ***, you guys have more restrictions and restraints of freedom that most first world countries. Have fun without internet poker in your "free" country. I know myself and every other canadian online poker player will enjoy still playing without you. Contrary to what you may believe about the online poker industry not going on without you, it will. Between Canada, Europe, and the rest of the world, we have strong player base and more than enough fish for us to make money and have fun. YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!! GET OVER IT! It is the american populations fault as a whole that you have elected officials that repress your freedom (and lack thereof) to play poker online. Truthfully, I sympathize for you guys as it would be naive of me to think that you could have forseen these recent events, but I think you need to step back and critically view how you arrived at this juncture. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Enough said...if Canada = land of the free, then I prefer to be enslaved.We don't want you its ok........lol Link to post Share on other sites
Don Giovanni 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 fockkkkkk Link to post Share on other sites
Jelly-Filled Ace 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 but I think you need to step back and critically view how you arrived at this juncture.We have a grip on the 'how' part. The 'fix' isn't a very simple solution. I think the OP posted a very alarming piece of information that surpasses the Oct. 13th news - viewing this as a U.S. citizen of course.What have Canada or any other country done to protect themselves from their possible affects of such a situation. Like usual, they'll wait and see what the USA does first. We got blind-sided, your excuse would be worse to sit back and watch our liberties get raped and not have a solution in place when (pick a country) follows suit - if that happens.You have no more power to tell your gov't what to do than we do. No one fights back anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
pbcsurfer 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 This is the last straw for me here, if you continue to play after ALL what has been posted these past 3 days, goodluck, because I am done. I just don't think it's worth getting in trouble over, live play is better anyways. I also agree with what someone posted in another thread, going back to how poker used to be, like in Rounders, you never know. Link to post Share on other sites
mclark340 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I find it hilarious that you americans resent the notion of living in canada. Typical american nature to think your country is the be-all end-all of nations. Land of the free my ***, you guys have more restrictions and restraints of freedom that most first world countries. Have fun without internet poker in your "free" country. I know myself and every other canadian online poker player will enjoy still playing without you. Contrary to what you may believe about the online poker industry not going on without you, it will. Between Canada, Europe, and the rest of the world, we have strong player base and more than enough fish for us to make money and have fun. YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!! GET OVER IT! It is the american populations fault as a whole that you have elected officials that repress your freedom (and lack thereof) to play poker online. Truthfully, I sympathize for you guys as it would be naive of me to think that you could have forseen these recent events, but I think you need to step back and critically view how you arrived at this juncture.Canadians are upset that the queen is still on their money...and the French won't leave their country!On a serious note, online poker is not the end all. If you look at the B&M games in the US...they are all over the place. The rest of the world can not say that (at least the places I have visited).As for the politicians...they will get their backlash and online poker will be back.I would venture to guess that between 35%-45% of the online money is coming from the US...closing the doors WILL hurt everyone. That is not self centered...that is a fact. Their is still money to be made, but the world as we all know it changes together.I for one am not that upset with online poker going away...I am not sure I feel secure playing online anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 We have a grip on the 'how' part. The 'fix' isn't a very simple solution. I think the OP posted a very alarming piece of information that surpasses the Oct. 13th news - viewing this as a U.S. citizen of course.What have Canada or any other country done to protect themselves from their possible affects of such a situation. Like usual, they'll wait and see what the USA does first. We got blind-sided, your excuse would be worse to sit back and watch our liberties get raped and not have a solution in place when (pick a country) follows suit - if that happens.You have no more power to tell your gov't what to do than we do. No one fights back anymore.Do I need to point out how much this does'nt make sense? Canada is another country, we have had no inclination about this at all, what has Canada done to protect itself.............ummmmmmmmmmmm we have'nt implemented a bill banning online gambling maybe??? In Canada we have more relaxed laws on gambling than the United states and most provinces have casinos. And we do not have the religious right nearly as evident as in the United States, which is why this stuff flies in the United States, you are not going to see Canada and Europe jump on the anti gaming ship IMO they can see it is a witch hunt.It sucks that you guys are losing online, I know because I live in The US right now, but you should face facts not try and point fingers. Link to post Share on other sites
Jelly-Filled Ace 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Do I need to point out how much this does'nt make sense?No. So little on here makes sense to you. We know this. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Overall Its not really a doomsday situation for me as I prefer to play live, but the tournies online are nice. It just sucks because I live in Florida which is basically play online or play in underground clubs, which are'nt bad but have specific times that dont really fit my schedule. Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Overall Its not really a doomsday situation for me as I prefer to play live, but the tournies, fact i don't have to drive anywhere, park my car, get dressed, can play any time day or night, for as short or as long as i want, don't have to pay extra for food or drinks, online are nice.-fyp Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 No. So little on here makes sense to you. We know this.dude use a little logic when you try and speak. Im gonna quote your post and shred it ok?"What have Canada or any other country done to protect themselves from their possible affects of such a situation. Like usual, they'll wait and see what the USA does first. We got blind-sided, your excuse would be worse to sit back and watch our liberties get raped and not have a solution in place when (pick a country) follows suit - if that happens."Our liberties don't get raped, and (pick a country) is a seperate entity that has nothing to do with US policy. You don't see us changing our drinking age to 21 do you? We don't need an excuse nothing is happening. You don't see us changing our health care system do you? That is because what happens in your country interms of things like online gambling has nothing to do with how the other countries will re-act. Please don't post these brain farts anymore. thank you Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 -fypYa but I have a bigger edge playing live, unlike most people on here I started playing mostly live in underground games in Florida or in Casinos in Canada. so being able to play live and get more information is a big advantage that I prefer. Link to post Share on other sites
pbcsurfer 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Overall Its not really a doomsday situation for me as I prefer to play live, but the tournies online are nice. It just sucks because I live in Florida which is basically play online or play in underground clubs, which are'nt bad but have specific times that dont really fit my schedule.I feel ya I'm in florida too, where in Florida are you at?, I know some friends that go to some of the underground clubs too. Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Ya but I have a bigger edge playing live, unlike most people on here I started playing mostly live in underground games in Florida or in Casinos in Canada. so being able to play live and get more information is a big advantage that I prefer.Oh I agree fully, I was just adding a number of things about online that are nice to have. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I find it hilarious that you americans resent the notion of living in canada. Typical american nature to think your country is the be-all end-all of nations. Land of the free my ***, you guys have more restrictions and restraints of freedom that most first world countries. Have fun without internet poker in your "free" country. I know myself and every other canadian online poker player will enjoy still playing without you. Contrary to what you may believe about the online poker industry not going on without you, it will. Between Canada, Europe, and the rest of the world, we have strong player base and more than enough fish for us to make money and have fun. YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!! GET OVER IT! It is the american populations fault as a whole that you have elected officials that repress your freedom (and lack thereof) to play poker online. Truthfully, I sympathize for you guys as it would be naive of me to think that you could have forseen these recent events, but I think you need to step back and critically view how you arrived at this juncture.I think we, as Americans, have come to terms with the fact that we're not in fact the center of the universe. It's most Canadians with the 'little brother who never got enough attention' syndrome, that have not. Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I feel ya I'm in florida too, where in Florida are you at?, I know some friends that go to some of the underground clubs too.based on your tag Im thinking your pretty close to me, Im in West Palm. Link to post Share on other sites
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