digitalmonkey 929 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Columbus is a good team. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 They aren't playing bad. They were pretty dominant in games 1-3: Game 4 was an anomaly that can be partially, if not mostly, attributed to score effects. They got up 3-0 so early and then did that stupid thing where you tend to sit back, which killed them, plus Columbus is actually pretty good. (Game 3 can be partially explained by score effects as well, where the Pens trailed by 2 for about a period. Game 1, they trailed by 2 for less than 2 minutes.) Crosby and Malkin have been just fine: Naturally, Crosby's line is facing the absolute best Columbus has to offer, yet he and Kunitz both have a very high CF%. Malkin as well with a very high CF% (he's the dark blue under Jokinen). The team has a whole looks like it probably has more o-zone starts which is a sign of a team doing well (ie, ending in the opponent's zone more often than in your own end). The thing about hockey is that it's hockey. You can't just score at all. All you can do is go out there and try to get more chances than the other team, in the long run, the better team should score more goals and win... 4 games isn't the long run. Listen, the Penguins have lost two games, and both were in overtime. This series could be over right now if they won two coin flips instead of losing them. PS - that chart above shows Stempniak as being absurdly good this series. Rare o-zone starts, toughest comp, and still a positive corsi. Ridiculous. Helps that he plays mostly with Sid/Kunitz, but spent at least a game on the Sutter line as well, which has been a rather poor possession line. (all stats from: http://www.extraskat...-penguins/2013p) Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Columbus is a good team. well no doubt, they are all are at this stage.. But Crosby, Malkin, Neal and Kunitz should dominate Dubinsky, Johansen and Jenner Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ya that graph is not only boring, its irrelevant to my old school hockey watchings...I look at wwe have a 3-0 lead over the 7th seed and we blew it... Vertical Axis ? CF%? We dont like that stuff....Not trying to undermine the stats...But if you watch the tying goal the Pens gave up, Crosby was pinching during the open net, made a weak effort that caused the rush that cost the goal...No stat explains that ..Several examples of that... I am NOT undermining the stats again, just doesnt tell the story... EDIT..Commented on wrong data... You're wrong on all counts here. What is Crosby supposed to do on that play, sit back? Get real. He's supposed to go in there and try to hem the puck in, at worst, or at best get it and score to put it away. That's not a pinch, that's hockey 101. You'll note he was back in perfect position when the goal was actually scored, which was seconds after a dump in, ie, he didn't have a ton of time to float back, or anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 well no doubt, they are all are at this stage.. But Crosby, Malkin, Neal and Kunitz should dominate Dubinsky, Johansen and Jenner They are. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I accidentally used the reg season numbers at first, but the post-season numbers are even better, used in the above post. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 They are. Again I understand where you are coming from, your way to analyze the game is like an Xbox game...Just look at the analytics..Thats all great and a part of the picture...But anyone watching the games can see Sidney isnt the old Crosby..Something is off, I hope for him that he isnt hurt.... Fenwick and Corsi is great, but the main stat is that Crosby and Malkin havent scored in 9 straight playoff games...Thats alarming number for 2 of the best players in the world.. Its pretty hilarious the flack these guys are getting in a series that is tied 2-2 , like you said in 2 OT games that can go either way... Penguins win this in 6...Crosby hat trick in game 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Nothing is off, he is being shadowed by one of the best defensive players/pests around. People have ridiculous expectations. Do you guys not understand how marginal everything is in today's NHL. This isn't like Gretzky and Mario's days where they were miles ahead of the pack. Everyone is so close. Crosby is better because he consistently does good things just a fraction more frequently than the rest of the league. If teams focus on him like they do in the playoffs, then he has a hard time "dominating". Not all teams have an answer for Sid and Geno. Columbus has a good shutdown line, and a coach that can get them out against him far more often than not. The 9-game goal stat is a tad alarming, but we can take the 4 games out against Boston, IMO. The whole team was just thoroughly dominated. Not scoring in 4 games against Columbus is unexpected (plus one series deciding win against Ottawa?), but it's hockey. That's how it goes. All you can do is get chances and let the percentages work themselves out. They are doing that reasonably well. Crosby still has 4 points in 4 games. He has had a few more giveaways than I would like to see, but that happens when you're trying to make plays. They're almost always in the offensive zone, and you can absolutely live with that. Malkin should shoot the puck more, that's my only real complaint there, I think. He may still be injured from whatever it was that kept him out of the last few weeks of the season. If anything, you could see their "slump" as a positive. This team that was touted as having no depth is now getting scoring from all over the lineup. 14 goals in 4 games, with 0 from 87 or 71. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I have noticed , to an exact science, whenever you discuss a topic,player,stat for more than 4 posts , right away the trend will reverse...This is 100 percent scientific Serge stat.. The more we talk about Crosby "'slump"' the more likely he will have a massive game... Oh Matty Niskanen btw..I love him...Dont lose him..I need his offensive production next year.. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ha. Vintage Penguins would win game 5 about 5-1 with Sid and Malkin getting 4 pts each. I'm not sure anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Zach the stats geek! Love the charts. I wish I was watching more of this series, because the few moments I have seen, I really think something is off with Crosby+Malkin. Not healthy.....tired from a long year.....something else, I dont know. Im not sure Im going to start putting it all on Dubinsky either, he's good, but he's not THAT good. Maybe if I had watched more, I would be more likely to argue this point, but Ive seen too little to know. Also, I cant stop laughing every time someone says what a great Def job J.Johnson is doing, and how he's a shutdown D. lolol. No, he really really isn't. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Zach the stats geek! Love the charts. I wish I was watching more of this series, because the few moments I have seen, I really think something is off with Crosby+Malkin. Not healthy.....tired from a long year.....something else, I dont know. Im not sure Im going to start putting it all on Dubinsky either, he's good, but he's not THAT good. Maybe if I had watched more, I would be more likely to argue this point, but Ive seen too little to know. Also, I cant stop laughing every time someone says what a great Def job J.Johnson is doing, and how he's a shutdown D. lolol. No, he really really isn't. As good as Columbus is I agree with your comments...What happens when they face a real challenge like Boston..Or Rangers and Montreal even? Im still confident when the games are on the line these guys will come to play.... Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't think Johnson plays against Crosby. I agree, he's rather bad defensively. I don't think you're wrong about Sid/Geno either. They don't look dominant out there. They've been doing their part, but it hasn't "looked" great, you know? Maybe it's a function of cheering for them, rather than against, but they've never given me that feeling of "here comes a goal" nearly as often as guys like Giroux or Marty St. Louis every time they come down the ice. At least not for a few years. Even in this series, every time Ryan Johansen has the puck, I'm holding my breath. That's most likely just the negative bias coming through though. I wonder if opposing fans are as fearful of Crosby/Malkin as they should be. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Who is the backup...Zatkoff or Vokoun? If the Flower has a bad start, does Byslma pull him, or does he consider benching the Flower ? I know its not all on him, but you have to figure he is on a short leash game 5? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 As good as Columbus is I agree with your comments...What happens when they face a real challenge like Boston..Or Rangers and Montreal even? Im still confident when the games are on the line these guys will come to play.... Well, they're not as good as Boston, so they better come to play. They probably haven't even been as good as NYR and maybe even Montreal down the stretch, so who knows. I attributed it to them being injured all year and really having nothing to play for in the last half of the season. My hope was that they could use the first round to get that fire back, get back to working as a team, get everyone on the same page, up the intensity, etc. We'll see how that plays out, I guess. It's that same old story. Teams that have to fight and claw to get into the playoffs in the last few days are always a little bit better in the first round than the teams that have been able to relax for a month or two. Usually that higher seeded team can get by on talent, but the gap is closing in the NHL. Parity is taking over, so it'll be a lot tougher. Pens are playing pretty good, as I stated, but they still have another gear. Just hope they find it by the time the next round starts. They don't NEED it for this round, though it would help, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Who is the backup...Zatkoff or Vokoun? If the Flower has a bad start, does Byslma pull him, or does he consider benching the Flower ? I know its not all on him, but you have to figure he is on a short leash game 5? Zatkoff right now. Not sure what Vokoun's status is, but I don't see how you go to him after having missed the entire season. I hate to say it, but if Fleury allows 3 goals pretty softly, maybe even two super softies, I'd be tempted to pull him. Things just seem to snowball when he starts to let them in. I hate that it happens, but it's happened a few times now. Having said that, he's been pretty good this series. He got unlucky on the tying goal, on a play where he really shouldn't have left the net, so he made a mistake there, and I don't know what happened on the OT winner, maybe it was tipped or it dove or something, but he obviously should have had that. Otherwise he has been marvelous. Almost every other goal against has been of the wacko variety. Game 4 - (1) Weird deflection that hopped over him, (2) 5 on 3 goal empty net tap in/scramble. Game 3 - (1) Weak rebound, not a great goal, (2) meh, neither bad nor good, poor defensive on both of these, (3) puck going a mile wide, bounces off a guy's torso and in Game 2 - (1) PP goal against, (2) SH 3 on 1, (3) PP goal against on a nice set up off a bit of a scramble, (4) 2nd rebound after a ridiculous first save, no chance on that Game 1 - (1) D breakdown leads to Johnson coming in basically on a breakaway, (2) PP goal on a terrible giveaway, (3) SH breakaway After going through all of that, I've come to the conclusion that special teams have been horrible for Pittsburgh, certainly not Fleury. I would say there were a few that he COULD have had, but aside from the last 2 goals (3rd period and OT game 4), he hasn't had any stinkers or anything. Mostly let down by his defense (team) and special teams. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 This is pretty much it... http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6981 Crosby and Malkin dominating as usual, bottom 6 being as awful as we all expected. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Zach will like this one http://grantland.com/the-triangle/sidney-crosby-bad-playoffs/ Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 God, I've been saying that for years, especially during the Olympics. Good article. Link to post Share on other sites
TheDaveyG 6 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Zach the stats geek! Love the charts. I wish I was watching more of this series, because the few moments I have seen, I really think something is off with Crosby+Malkin. Not healthy.....tired from a long year.....something else, I dont know. Im not sure Im going to start putting it all on Dubinsky either, he's good, but he's not THAT good. Maybe if I had watched more, I would be more likely to argue this point, but Ive seen too little to know. Also, I cant stop laughing every time someone says what a great Def job J.Johnson is doing, and how he's a shutdown D. lolol. No, he really really isn't. Of course Sidney Crosby is tired, when was the last night time he same even close to playing this many games in one season? Plus Olympics! Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 It's definitely been a few years. Link to post Share on other sites
doox 15 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I have a feeling Crosby has some nagging injury that we're going to hear about when the Pens are done with the playoffs. Probably from all the Dubinsky attention. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Here's something I don't get. Everywhere I look I see stuff like "the Jackets have the Penguins reeling"... wtf does that mean? Do people think the series is 3-1 Columbus? Do people not realize it's 2-2 with both losses coming in OT? How exactly are the Penguins reeling. I hate media sensationalism. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Here's something I don't get. Everywhere I look I see stuff like "the Jackets have the Penguins reeling"... wtf does that mean? Do people think the series is 3-1 Columbus? Do people not realize it's 2-2 with both losses coming in OT? How exactly are the Penguins reeling. I hate media sensationalism. It's been a very close series. Could also easily be 3-1 Columbus if they don't blow that third period lead. But same for the pens. The expectation is Pens are supposed to steam roll them. In reality Columbus is a good team. Btw. I'm really loving future mustang superstar Boone Jenner Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Nobody smart thought the Penguins would steamroll them. (Jenner is a future Toronto Rocket as well.) Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now