Pittsburgh Penguins Thread

[Zach6668 513]

Eh, I would certainly find myself pulling for someone a little more if they were nice to me, or if there's stories of them being nice out there, or whatever.My personal experiences have made me defend Kovalev a billion times, because of what I witnessed one time in 1999, lol.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Let me say this, just in case there was any confusion:Character matters to me. Athletes' character doesn't matter to me solely because I can't ever know what their true character is. Let's say you go to a game and you happen to run into one of the players afterwards and he's super nice, really down to earth, and just acts with total respect towards you. You're going to like him a little more, right?Then you start googling him because wow what a great guy and you find a bunch of anecdotes about him being a total asshole. Do you stop liking him? Which is his true nature? (Probably something in between.)These guys aren't role models to me; I'm not trying to be like them. I just want to watch the best in sports. Why do I need to keep up with their personal lives as a prerequisite to being a fan?

You dont have to, and I dont disagree with you at all. We're just different, not saying your wrong.I think sometimes its also what youve been through in your life. I was like this before, but as I get older (39), I care less about wins/losses, and more about character, as little as I may be informed about it.For me, if I see an athelete helping the community, I cant just ignore it on the basis that I might not know the whole background of the guy. Its a knee jerk reaction, its lacking in total info, but its what matters to me. I consider myself a huge sports fan, pretty deep in a few sports, and could talk about players/teams all night. But at the end of the day, I still allow others things to supercede my fandom.Your the one being more pragmatic in this situation, and I wont argue your wrong at all. You asked in general if it mattered, and Im just telling you it does to me, a lot. But I may have personal experiences that others do not, and that shapes my viewpoint on things.

[gruven 530]

Re: Character and Matt Cooke: I spent two months on the road with him during the lockout. Most NHL goons/tough guys/agitators seem to be really opposite off the ice, really nice guys. Cooke is a complete douche, and I can cite several off-ice examples....

[serge 904]

Re: Character and Matt Cooke: I spent two months on the road with him during the lockout. Most NHL goons/tough guys/agitators seem to be really opposite off the ice, really nice guys. Cooke is a complete douche, and I can cite several off-ice examples....

Did he hit you in the head while you werent looking? Maybe elbowed you from behind while reaching for a beer?

[gruven 530]

By the way, Damien Cox had a very good point on the radio today re Mario: He said people are calling ML a hypocrite. If Mario isn't a good spokesperson, then who is? Name a GM or President or owner that has as much right or cred to say something as Mario....

[mrdannyg 274]

I dont mean to pick on your use of a word, but I dont think Mario thinks those governors are his "peers". I know I dont.And I think (or maybe its just hope), that he could care less what the other governors (who shall remain nameless, because, you know, they have no balls) think about him. I love that Mario gets called a hypocrite, but some unnamed governor gets credibility for taking shots at Mario. We dont even know who these governors are....what if its the Isles? As for the media, Mario's done a great job of never giving much worry what those buffoons said before, no reason he should care today.

This is the only reason Mario's comments have gotten more than a sniff. Because his opinion is so important. And I'm very glad he used one of his rare media appearances to speak out against something important.

9. Zenon Konopka (who leads the league in penalty minutes) is a joke. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353855

A good example. These comments are not just hypocritical, but pretty stupid in general. And that's even if you allow Zenon Kopopka the same benefit of the doubt as Mario, which would also be silly. But few people care, because, well, who gives a crap what Zenon Kopopka thinks?

God this thread has become stupid.

Fine that you won't respond, but I just don't get what you're so upset about. There's a line. Cooke crosses it. Not once, but regularly. You can't find a player in this league who regularly crosses the line, other than Cooke. If there's a problem with this league, it isn't that a couple guys who are lucky to have jobs did something that their idiot coach/GM encouraged, it is a regular player who crosses the line regularly and dangerously. Maybe that's not what Mario is saying, but if all he's speaking out against is things like Martin/Gilles that happen once every few years, he isn't saying very much.

I'm not a Pens fan, and I agree with all of this. Well, except I think Brent Johnson might have actually held his own against Haley if Godard had let them go. I really don't believe The fact that Cooke is a penguin has any relevance to anything that happened in the game, or was said after. I do think cooke is a piece of shit though (as a hockey player).

It really did seem like Johnson was fine. He probably would've lost the fight because, well he was wearing goalie pads. Still would've been awesome though.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Fine that you won't respond, but I just don't get what you're so upset about. There's a line. Cooke crosses it. Not once, but regularly. You can't find a player in this league who regularly crosses the line, other than Cooke.

wanted all this to die, sick of sounding like Im defending Cooke, but off the top of my head, I can think of guys like Downie, Carcillo, and Shelley who have all had multiple suspensions, and do many things that cross the line. I get your trying to make a point, but I think its a little naive to think if you take Cooke out, your left with no players who cross the line regularly. Id even throw in guys like Armstrong+Ovechkin in there to be honest.

[gruven 530]

wanted all this to die, sick of sounding like Im defending Cooke, but off the top of my head, I can think of guys like Downie, Carcillo, and Shelley who have all had multiple suspensions, and do many things that cross the line. I get your trying to make a point, but I think its a little naive to think if you take Cooke out, your left with no players who cross the line regularly. Id even throw in guys like Armstrong+Ovechkin in there to be honest.

Lets not forget future HHOFer Chris Pronger...

[ajs510 122]

wanted all this to die, sick of sounding like Im defending Cooke, but off the top of my head, I can think of guys like Downie, Carcillo, and Shelley who have all had multiple suspensions, and do many things that cross the line. I get your trying to make a point, but I think its a little naive to think if you take Cooke out, your left with no players who cross the line regularly. Id even throw in guys like Armstrong+Ovechkin in there to be honest.

Lets not forget future HHOFer Chris Pronger...

Scotty Nichol...Jody Shelley...Ben Eager...*Edit* Oops, Arp said Shelley.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

You dont have to, and I dont disagree with you at all. We're just different, not saying your wrong.I think sometimes its also what youve been through in your life. I was like this before, but as I get older (39), I care less about wins/losses, and more about character, as little as I may be informed about it.For me, if I see an athelete helping the community, I cant just ignore it on the basis that I might not know the whole background of the guy. Its a knee jerk reaction, its lacking in total info, but its what matters to me. I consider myself a huge sports fan, pretty deep in a few sports, and could talk about players/teams all night. But at the end of the day, I still allow others things to supercede my fandom.Your the one being more pragmatic in this situation, and I wont argue your wrong at all. You asked in general if it mattered, and Im just telling you it does to me, a lot. But I may have personal experiences that others do not, and that shapes my viewpoint on things.

This is fair. And I think it's fine to root for someone who was nice to you personally or root against someone who wasn't (I think that's different than hearing third-hand reports about something he may or may not have done). Just don't be soul-crushed when you hear about the nice guy isn't really all that nice, you know?In sports we say that no team is as good as their longest winning streak or as bad as their longest losing streak; the real team is somewhere in between. I think that's true for character stuff as well. These guys aren't real villains or real saints; they're somewhere in between.

[mrdannyg 274]

wanted all this to die, sick of sounding like Im defending Cooke, but off the top of my head, I can think of guys like Downie, Carcillo, and Shelley who have all had multiple suspensions, and do many things that cross the line. I get your trying to make a point, but I think its a little naive to think if you take Cooke out, your left with no players who cross the line regularly. Id even throw in guys like Armstrong+Ovechkin in there to be honest.

Lets not forget future HHOFer Chris Pronger...

I'm sure we're all too lazy, but I bet a quick look at # of suspensions in the last 5 years would show Cooke well ahead of all those guys.I would agree that Pronger and Chris Simon were just as dirty, and far more dangerous. And if you want to calculate suspensions per minute of ice time, I guess Carcillo, Eager and Shelley are not far off

[ajs510 122]

I'm sure we're all too lazy, but I bet a quick look at # of suspensions in the last 5 years would show Cooke well ahead of all those guys.I would agree that Pronger and Chris Simon were just as dirty, and far more dangerous. And if you want to calculate suspensions per minute of ice time, I guess Carcillo, Eager and Shelley are not far off

Cooke has been suspended 3 times in the last five years (and once in 2004 for a total of 4 times in his career). 4 games this time, and the other three were all two-game suspensions. 8 games total. Scott Nichol has missed 27 games due to suspension in his career, he's been suspended six times. Chris Pronger, six suspensions, total of 14 games missed. Jody Shelley, 5 suspensions, total of 10 games missed. Carcillo, 3 suspensions, total of 8 games missed. Steve Downie, 1 suspension for 20 games. (I think he learned his lesson pretty quick, that was back in '07). So yeah...Matt Cooke isn't the ultimate villain in the NHL, he just gets good press of late. Trevor Gillies is missing more games from his one suspension than Matt Cooke has missed in his career.

[Zach6668 513]

Fine that you won't respond, but I just don't get what you're so upset about. There's a line. Cooke crosses it. Not once, but regularly. You can't find a player in this league who regularly crosses the line, other than Cooke. If there's a problem with this league, it isn't that a couple guys who are lucky to have jobs did something that their idiot coach/GM encouraged, it is a regular player who crosses the line regularly and dangerously. Maybe that's not what Mario is saying, but if all he's speaking out against is things like Martin/Gilles that happen once every few years, he isn't saying very much.

I never said that Cooke wasn't dangerous, and perhaps the league would be better off without him. The point doesn't change, though. It doesn't change Mario's message in any way. He didn't mention Cooke. Maybe he hates the way he plays, but he's not the GM, he's not the guy signing him, he's the guy who signed the guy who signed him. That's all. There should be no correlation. Even if he hates the way Cooke plays, he won't come out and say it, in the middle of the stretch drive. That would all be handled internally. Maybe the Pens are trying to move Cooke at the deadline? Nobody knows, everyone just assumes Mario condones the way Cooke plays.Bottom line, though, Cooke dangerousness is a lot different than a few plugs with a mission to deliberately hurt people, and that's the part that Mario and I were so upset about in that Isles game.

[mrdannyg 274]

Cooke has been suspended 3 times in the last five years (and once in 2004 for a total of 4 times in his career). 4 games this time, and the other three were all two-game suspensions. 8 games total. Scott Nichol has missed 27 games due to suspension in his career, he's been suspended six times. Chris Pronger, six suspensions, total of 14 games missed. Jody Shelley, 5 suspensions, total of 10 games missed. Carcillo, 3 suspensions, total of 8 games missed. Steve Downie, 1 suspension for 20 games. (I think he learned his lesson pretty quick, that was back in '07). So yeah...Matt Cooke isn't the ultimate villain in the NHL, he just gets good press of late. Trevor Gillies is missing more games from his one suspension than Matt Cooke has missed in his career.

Good list. I thought Cooke had been suspended a lot more than that. A lot of those are not recent suspensions, but that point is more than countered when you consider Cooke actually has value, whereas half that list (Shelley, Carcillo, Nichol?) don't add anything else.

I never said that Cooke wasn't dangerous, and perhaps the league would be better off without him. The point doesn't change, though. It doesn't change Mario's message in any way. He didn't mention Cooke. Maybe he hates the way he plays, but he's not the GM, he's not the guy signing him, he's the guy who signed the guy who signed him. That's all. There should be no correlation. Even if he hates the way Cooke plays, he won't come out and say it, in the middle of the stretch drive. That would all be handled internally. Maybe the Pens are trying to move Cooke at the deadline? Nobody knows, everyone just assumes Mario condones the way Cooke plays.Bottom line, though, Cooke dangerousness is a lot different than a few plugs with a mission to deliberately hurt people, and that's the part that Mario and I were so upset about in that Isles game.

Like I said, if all Mario was speaking out against is an incident like Gilles or Martin, then he isn't speaking out against much. Those things happen rarely in the NHL. I'd guess suspending a first-time offender much more than they did, when it didn't cause serious injury, would've been challenged by the NHLPA.

[ajs510 122]

Good list. I thought Cooke had been suspended a lot more than that. A lot of those are not recent suspensions, but that point is more than countered when you consider Cooke actually has value, whereas half that list (Shelley, Carcillo, Nichol?) don't add anything else.

Cooke and Carcillo were within 8 points of each other last season. His production has plummeted this year as he's only gotten into 33 games, I assume the rest were watched from the pressbox due to the forward depth on the Flyers. I was surprised that Cooke had only been dinged 4 times as well, it feels like more than that with all the attention he's getting of late.

[Dubey 1,035]

keep in mind, he was NOT suspended for the Savard hit, which is the one that probably got him the most negative press.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

keep in mind, he was NOT suspended for the Savard hit, which is the one that probably got him the most negative press.

good point. I dont necessarily equate suspensed with dirty hit, or vice versa. This is the NHL afterall.On the bright side, Cherry has come out and ridiculed Mario, calling him a whiny hypocrite and I think a primadonna. Cherry there, me here? This is what I call a WIN.

[dEv~ 19]

keep in mind, he was NOT suspended for the Savard hit, which is the one that probably got him the most negative press.

And was legal at the time.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

good point. I dont necessarily equate suspensed with dirty hit, or vice versa. This is the NHL afterall.

Which, I think, brings us full circle to it's the NHL's fault.

[Dubey 1,035]

And was legal at the time.

Legal, maybe. Dirty, definitely.

[Jason12 0]

And was legal at the time.

"21.1 Match Penalty - A match penalty involves the suspension of a player for the balance of the game and the offender shall be ordered to the dressing room immediately.A match penalty shall be imposed on any player who deliberately attempts to injure or who deliberately injures an opponent in any manner."

[Zach6668 513]

"21.1 Match Penalty - A match penalty involves the suspension of a player for the balance of the game and the offender shall be ordered to the dressing room immediately.A match penalty shall be imposed on any player who deliberately attempts to injure or who deliberately injures an opponent in any manner."

Not to pile on, but the NHL and the referees in the game found it legal by not issuing a penalty or subsequent suspension.

[pezeveng 207]

<----------------------------- Can I keep her Zach or does she have to go?

I didn't know posting a pic would cause so much controversy. I didn't bother reading all the replies but thank you to those that defended me.

[Zach6668 513]

I didn't know posting a pic would cause so much controversy. I didn't bother reading all the replies but thank you to those that defended me.

I have no idea what this is all about.

[mrdannyg 274]

good point. I dont necessarily equate suspensed with dirty hit, or vice versa. This is the NHL afterall.On the bright side, Cherry has come out and ridiculed Mario, calling him a whiny hypocrite and I think a primadonna. Cherry there, me here? This is what I call a WIN.

Can I change sides?