Is This Feasible?

[Abbaddabba 0]

I think it's a lot easier in limit, where you can pretty much make robotic decisions, So do you attribute this to just having the will power to sit there for that amount of time without getting bored, or doing something stupid? and so far is your winrate at 1BB/100?

It's just as robotic as NL. Just for different reasons.Historic winrates before benefits are well above 1BB/100.Rakeback/bonus benefits equal about 1.5BB/100.Breaking even is good enough for me. Enough to make 100k a year playing far less than 40 hours a week.

[mtdesmoines 3]

What planet are you from?

Earth. Or so my parents told me. ... ... ... ... Now ya got me thinkin. Anyway, trust me on this. Your first job out of college sucks. It just does. It gets better. I really does. Oh, and if you're like most people, you won't make decent money until you need it.

[BWToth 0]

It's just as robotic as NL. Just for different reasons.Historic winrates before benefits are well above 1BB/100.Rakeback/bonus benefits equal about 1.5BB/100.Breaking even is good enough for me. Enough to make 100k a year playing far less than 40 hours a week.

That's what i'm talking about, and it seems like 1-3BB/100 can be accomplished by any competant human, although maybe not much longer that the rate at which things look to be happening for online poker.

[Abbaddabba 0]

1-3BB/100 at limit isnt common. 3BB/100 is almost unheard of for people who are actually in it for the money, because they cant waste time waiting for the single best table. If you only played the absolute best tables, you could do better. Just wait for maniacs who are tossing out 4 bets on all streets, and get up when they bust. Winrates arent the be all end all measure of acheivement.Anything above 1BB/100 is an accomplishment if you play indiscriminately. Fewer people can do that than you'd think based on what you hear on these forums. People just frame their results how they want to see them.... what you hear on poker forums is incredibly misleading.

[Zach6668 513]

BWToth,Don't confuse LIMIT winrates, with NO LIMIT winrates.1-3 ptbb at NL might be pretty easy for a winning player, but not so much at LHE.

[rgold79 0]

But a job is an investment that provides you with skills which makes you more desirable to future employers who will pay you more. If your current job pays you close or equal to what you estimate you can make playing poker full time, then playing poker has a negative EV relative to your future. You sacrifice: a steady and consistent stream of income for the stress of playing for a living, the aforementioned benefits (health, etc.) that come with a job, the investment in yourself as capital which would pay dividends in a better job down the line. Unless you can make appreciably more playing poker full time than you can working a regular 9 to 5, it's probably not the right decision for you. Just put up with the crap job and build a marketable resume toward something you'll love and play poker on the side to supplement your income and buy nice things. A motivated college graduate who is willing to work hard will almost always be able to earn enough to live comfortably and support a family.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I agree. If i could get a job that paid half of what i make at poker an hour, i would spend a lot less time playing.But that is just plain unrealistic.I dont know where i'd draw the line.But im guessing no company is going to offer me even close to the point where i'd consider a regular job more worth my time.

[rgold79 0]

It's great for people who can make it work, and one of the best things about living in a free society is that a person can make a living for himself however he deems bes and no one can tell him otherwiset. But you really have to consider it as seriously as you would any potential career. First of all, playing 40+ hours a week is a job that requires discipline like any other. If you're basing your income estimation on maintaining a slow steady winrate you need to make sure you're capable of sustaining that grind week after week. Moreover, you have to look at it in terms of where you want to be in 5, 10 or even 20 years down the line. Could you eventually derive greater satisfaction from something else? Will you be as happy living on 30K at 35 as you are at 25? In the OP's case, it just seems like he's bored at an entry level job and is doing a little fantasizing. Someone pointed out before that EVERYONE hates their first job after school. I'm not that much older than you, and believe me there are many times when I feel like leaving a big pile of work to rot on my desk and going out to Vegas for a long vacation. But for me, I always come back to the feeling that my long term interests are genuinely better served if I stay at work and slowly make my way toward something satisfying and profitable. For me, that's my grind, and I'm happy to do it because I feel like eventually I'll get something out of it and maybe someday I'll be able to play a lot more poker while the money I've made collects interest in the bank. I guess what I am saying is that while it is feasible and while it serves as a fulfilling life for many people, it's really the kind of decision that has to be made with a high degree of objectivity and self-honesty, and should be fully considered before being entered into.

[jmkiser 0]

It's great for people who can make it work, and one of the best things about living in a free society is that a person can make a living for himself however he deems bes and no one can tell him otherwiset. But you really have to consider it as seriously as you would any potential career. First of all, playing 40+ hours a week is a job that requires discipline like any other. If you're basing your income estimation on maintaining a slow steady winrate you need to make sure you're capable of sustaining that grind week after week. Moreover, you have to look at it in terms of where you want to be in 5, 10 or even 20 years down the line. Could you eventually derive greater satisfaction from something else? Will you be as happy living on 30K at 35 as you are at 25? In the OP's case, it just seems like he's bored at an entry level job and is doing a little fantasizing. Someone pointed out before that EVERYONE hates their first job after school. I'm not that much older than you, and believe me there are many times when I feel like leaving a big pile of work to rot on my desk and going out to Vegas for a long vacation. But for me, I always come back to the feeling that my long term interests are genuinely better served if I stay at work and slowly make my way toward something satisfying and profitable. For me, that's my grind, and I'm happy to do it because I feel like eventually I'll get something out of it and maybe someday I'll be able to play a lot more poker while the money I've made collects interest in the bank. I guess what I am saying is that while it is feasible and while it serves as a fulfilling life for many people, it's really the kind of decision that has to be made with a high degree of objectivity and self-honesty, and should be fully considered before being entered into.

You might want to check out our government a tad bit more. We're not as free to live out our fantasies as you might think. Insurance costs are through the roof if you aren't getting benefits from a major corporate company. Politicians are "cracking down" on internet poker.... basically, there are a myriad of reasons on how our "American capitalist" society makes living outside the norm as friggin' hard as possible.This isn't freedom.

[rgold79 0]

You might want to check out our government a tad bit more. We're not as free to live out our fantasies as you might think. Insurance costs are through the roof if you aren't getting benefits from a major corporate company. Politicians are "cracking down" on internet poker.... basically, there are a myriad of reasons on how our "American capitalist" society makes living outside the norm as friggin' hard as possible.This isn't freedom.

These are all reasons why it potentially couldn't work, but they aren't prohibitive in and of themselves. Someone with a high enough level of talent can overcome these obstacles. No one ever said it was easy.

[finztotheleft 0]

Because so many people play poker after work, traffic at many sites really picks up in the evening hours for North America. This makes it pretty easy to play part time, to supplement another income.

[Zach6668 513]

Because so many people play poker after work, traffic at many sites really picks up in the evening hours for North America. This makes it pretty easy to play part time, to supplement another income.

I prefer to just sleep in until 4pm.

[finztotheleft 0]

I can only sleep until 3 pm , then the kids get home from school

[Abbaddabba 0]

If you're basing your income estimation on maintaining a slow steady winrate you need to make sure you're capable of sustaining that grind week after week. Moreover, you have to look at it in terms of where you want to be in 5, 10 or even 20 years down the line. Could you eventually derive greater satisfaction from something else? Will you be as happy living on 30K at 35 as you are at 25?

If online poker continues to thrive for 12 more years, i wont ever have to work.Im expecting it to crash in a year or two, after which i want to possess about 500k in savings (on which i'd perpetually earn about $25k a year in real interest).

[homnig 0]

Abba, can you explain why you think it will crash in 1-2 years? Also, what will you do after this time?

[Abbaddabba 0]

Games have been getting tougher for some time now. Cracking down on online poker in the US just gets the 'tards to back down and the pros to find ways around it.Things are probably going downhill.It wont completely crash, but decline so much that it's worth a whole lot less.If/when that happens i dont know what i'd do. I'd consider moving to vegas to play bigger games live.Just hopefully never a regular bullshit office job. God i hate that ****.I'd rather be flipping burgers.

[homnig 0]

Games have been getting tougher for some time now. Cracking down on online poker in the US just gets the 'tards to back down and the pros to find ways around it.Things are probably going downhill.It wont completely crash, but decline so much that it's worth a whole lot less.If/when that happens i dont know what i'd do. I'd consider moving to vegas to play bigger games live.Just hopefully never a regular bullshit office job. God i hate that ****.I'd rather be flipping burgers.

k thx for the explanation, maybe if we're lucky online poker won't die as much as it seems like it will. gl

[Zach6668 513]

k thx for the explanation, maybe if we're lucky online poker won't die as much as it seems like it will. gl

I'm optimistic it won't, but really, if you are playing for a living, it's prolly a great idea to have a contigency plan, as I do not.

[mrdannyg 274]

I'm optimistic it won't, but really, if you are playing for a living, it's prolly a great idea to have a contigency plan, as I do not.

a year ago i was pretty sure i was going to be able to make $100K a year just playing 2/4-3/6 bonuswhoring, and 250K any year that i decided to move up to 5/10-10/20 and buy a second monitor.things change.

[Abbaddabba 0]

You can still do that.You just want an excuse not to.Make the transition to 6max and a lot of doors open.And if you're willing to put in a lot of hours, 100k is really nothing much.

[Zach6668 513]

I'm on pace for like 60k, and I really haven't played a ton. I mean, sure, 20k hands this month, but it could be more.

[TheCinciKid 0]

You people are sick. 10k hands would be a huge month for me. I think that's about what I'm on pace for right now.

[Zach6668 513]

You people are sick. 10k hands would be a huge month for me. I think that's about what I'm on pace for right now.

^^^Almost 20k hands, and I feel like I haven't played enough this month. I haven't played 1,000 hands in a day, in well over a week.(I have no idea why I blanked out the winnings, but meh, lol)

[Zach6668 513]

Ok, this one is more interesting, I think.As you can see, from Jan 1 - Jan 23, I've put in 82.65 real hours at the table. That includes the time when I just fool around playing 1 table, and when I'm in hardcore multitable mode.The MT ratio means, on average, I play 2.93 tables at a time.So anyways, it really isn't that much time. I mean, 80 hours, over 23 days this month. Puts me at an average of 25ish hours per week, roughly 3 tabling.I was too lazy to edit out my wr, etc, and as you can see, works out to almost $20/hr, mostly playing 3/6, making less than 1 BB/100 (bad month ).Not to mention the bonus I've cleared over this time ($500 at Victor Chandler, and roughly maybe $400(?) at AP). I've also cleared more than $1000 in rakeback from AP (where I've only played 13,700ish of these hands).All in all, works to well over $40/hour, not including ARP value, etc.Even to make a decent wage, you don't have to play all that much.I think I've digressed a bit off of the topic of this thread, but anyways, it's definitely possible to make money at this game, even breaking even at the tables. Bonus whoring, and RB are insane.- ZachEDIT - Although my records suck, I think I may have cleared even more bonus that I put on here. If I take what's in my accounts, and subtract the PT winnings, and the tourney winnings, and my Dec. RB payment, it still leaves me with a > 3k increase, and only like 1600 in PT profit, meaning well over 1500 in Bonus cleared, and I've only accounted for 900, heh. Hourly rate is actually higher. I'll keep better records of bonus clearing in February, as I'll be whoring the Tribeca tables like crazy, and Betsafe's $1000 bonus.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Ok, this one is more interesting, I think.As you can see, from Jan 1 - Jan 23, I've put in 82.65 real hours at the table. That includes the time when I just fool around playing 1 table, and when I'm in hardcore multitable mode.The MT ratio means, on average, I play 2.93 tables at a time.So anyways, it really isn't that much time. I mean, 80 hours, over 23 days this month. Puts me at an average of 25ish hours per week, roughly 3 tabling.I was too lazy to edit out my wr, etc, and as you can see, works out to almost $20/hr, mostly playing 3/6, making less than 1 BB/100 (bad month ).Not to mention the bonus I've cleared over this time ($500 at Victor Chandler, and roughly maybe $400(?) at AP). I've also cleared more than $1000 in rakeback from AP (where I've only played 13,700ish of these hands).All in all, works to well over $40/hour, not including ARP value, etc.Even to make a decent wage, you don't have to play all that much.I think I've digressed a bit off of the topic of this thread, but anyways, it's definitely possible to make money at this game, even breaking even at the tables. Bonus whoring, and RB are insane.- ZachEDIT - Although my records suck, I think I may have cleared even more bonus that I put on here. If I take what's in my accounts, and subtract the PT winnings, and the tourney winnings, and my Dec. RB payment, it still leaves me with a > 3k increase, and only like 1600 in PT profit, meaning well over 1500 in Bonus cleared, and I've only accounted for 900, heh. Hourly rate is actually higher. I'll keep better records of bonus clearing in February, as I'll be whoring the Tribeca tables like crazy, and Betsafe's $1000 bonus.

Where do you get that thing that shows your actual hours and MT ratio?*edit* NM...I found it. Really cool feature I didn't know PT had.