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I realized something about how I play poker and was wondering if I'm the only person that feels this way. We all know that poker is a means of making money, as score is kept by the amount of money in chips(or cash) that you have in front of you. However, when I play poker, I don't just play poker ot make money(I'm not saying everyone else does, that just seems to be the common trend), but I play it as a game, like I would chess or go. Poker is a game of imperfect information. So figuring out the correct player is a little bit harder, but as we all know, poker is a game of psychology, so in games such as no-limit it is easier to force your opponent to make a decision they may not want to make, such as folding. What I'm trying to get at is, does anybody esle play poker b/c they love games, or because they enjoy the challenge of the game, instead of just playing poker to make money? Also, this also adds to the argument of whether ot play vs weaker players or stronger players. Most people will tell you to play against weaker players in order to make sure that you leave with more money than you showed up with, however, I enjoy playing with stronger players in order to up my game and force myself to think a bit differently and learn how to play the game at a much higher level....its also another reason why I prefer playing poker tournaments to cash games. please feel free to comment on your motivation for playing poker whether or not you agree with me.

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Personally I love playing poker, if that means that I am going to make money then so be it. I love the challenge, with all of the intricacies of it and the randomness of it. When i first started to play I was not good, so i played for fun, but then i got good. I started to only play for money and was not having fun. With that being said, at times i do play just fo the money. I play with my friends for fun and play with fish for money. But to me poker is fun, and it should always be that way. That is what i was always told as a child in sports is that you should always be having fun.

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i play cuz i like winning... but the easiest way for me to win is when money is on the table. its harder to beat the guys that dont care then the guys that do care.

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uahphysicsYour approach is very good, and I think you will continue to enjoy the game and have success.The $ will naturally follow.If a players reward after every session is that he played his best given the cards he had ,then regardless of the monetary outcome he will always leave the table a winner

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uahphysicsYour approach is very good, and I think you will continue to enjoy the game and have success.The $ will naturally follow.If a players reward after every session is that he played his best given the cards he had ,then regardless of the monetary outcome he will always leave the table a winner
That's a bunch of garbage!Sorry but you don't play poker for money and not care wether you win or lose. That's completely asinine.If I played poker for the thrill of victory I would play for play money and crap sunshine and roses because I would win every session.
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I sincerely enjoy playing poker, the money is just a nice bonus. Suer I care if I lose money but if I feel I have played well then it makes the damge to the bankroll a little easier to take. It softens the blow so to speak. For example, the other night at a little 5 dollar tourny, I put a guy on a flush draw after the flop and I had top pair. I didn't want him to draw out on me so I put him all in (leaving me with two chips if I lose) thinking it would be too expensive for him to call. Well, he calls and sure enough that's what he has the draw. He hits another diamond and that just about does me in for the tournament. If I cared more about the money than the game and the fact that I made a correct play, it would be much harder to take those beats and keep playing. Of course anyone who plays poker competetively plays for the money, but the real love of the game is what keeps those serious players keep on keeping on in my opinion.

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Umm no winning money makes poker fun. And your comment about playing with stronger players is utter crap. I gurantee if u sit down every session with people better than you and you lose everytime i *gurantee* you it *will* not be fun.

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We all enjoy playing, but if the money wasnt there, would we devote so much time to it? The incentive is obvious. If I could make ungodly amounts of money playing magic the gathering, I would probably study the hell out of that. I enjoy challenges, which is why I would play MTG and probably enjoy it, but I like money even more.

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No one said anything about not careing if you win or lose. My point was you cant control that, so focus on what you can control- playing your best game.And no one said anything about playing just for the thrill of victory. My point was contrary to that- people can become too results oriented especially in individual sessions.just my 2 cents :wink:

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Well, there seems to be some mixed results to my question. I think one point people missed was that you can't judge how well you played by how much money you made/lost in a session. If I play every hand correctly, the nature of the game is going to take over and luck will happen and I could theoretically lose money, but if I continue to play every hand correctly, then there's no reason for me to change how I play, whether or not I make/lose money. Conversely, there are some people who do make money, regularly or not, who are *not* good at poker. Making money does not make you good at poker. About playing against better players. Ya ok, if you play against weaker players you're going to make more money. Fine, I can accept that, but how on earth do you plan on getting better at poker? Reading books is only good if you can put it into practice. You *HAVE* to play against people that are better than you in order to get better. Its the same in chess, go, Magic(I was surprised you brought that up b/c I actually do play Magic competitively)....and poker. You don't have to play against better players all the time, but if you want to get better(and I don't think there's anyone that doesn't) then playing against fish time and time again WILL NOT make you better. Frankly, I don't care about winning or losing as much as making the correct and best play, because winning and losing is all relative. Think about it, what is a bad beat? Its when you play a hand correctly, with a hand that is an enormous favorite to someone else, and you still lose. So, if I play a hand correctly every time, then there's no reason that I should worry about that money I just lost, because I played the hand correctly and there's nothing more you can do than go to the next hand. And if you guys are THAT worried about winning and losing money, maybe poker isn't your game.

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I really really don't know what world you guys are living in but please send me some of your drugs because, damn you people are high on life!

No one said anything about not careing if you win or lose. My point was you cant control that.
Yes you can control if you win or lose. You may not win every hand/session you play in, but you can control what cards you play and what gives you the best chance of winning.
Conversely, there are some people who do make money, regularly or not, who are *not* good at poker. Making money does not make you good at poker.
Making money in the short term I would have to agree with you. In the long run though if you are a bad player you won't make money unless you are playing against the ABSOLUTE WORST players.
Ya ok, if you play against weaker players you're going to make more money. Fine, I can accept that, but how on earth do you plan on getting better at poker?
Just because you play against weaker competition doesn't mean you aren't improving your game. I specifically find people that are worse then me because I know how to play and I use their poor play to make me money. It's not like I am sitting down at a table with 100 bucks hoping that I play good. I am sitting down to make money plain and simple.
And if you guys are THAT worried about winning and losing money, maybe poker isn't your game.
Again this makes no sense. I am worried about winning and losing money. The reason being, that's why I play in the first place. If I am raking in money and then all of a sudden I start to lose it all I am going to be worried.I am not going to say to myself, "self we were winning money and now we aren't. Guess that's just the way poker goes. Hey you know what though, I feel good about the way I lost my money so it's ok."
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Everybody's right, shit.Poker is about making correct decisions. Correct decisions make you money.I play for both. I enjoy the strategy, and the benifit of making money doing something that I am thrilled about is sort of "gold-like".This would actually make for a good discussion. In college, I started out as a math major. I enjoyed the thoerems, the rules, the "truths...it was neat, but I got bored because I had no freedom. Creative writing would be fun, I thought. I could have all the freedom, but no "truths", no guidelines. I enjoyed it for a while, but felt lost. Poker is a mixture, imo. It has the truths, it has the freedom.

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I learned not to tie myself too closely to my results. I play almost everyday and psychologicaly I would be fried if I let the swings of this game get to me.So I focus on playing well, because I know that will help me win the money we all want so badly.(not bragging)we all have good days,Today I played four hours at Brantford casino 10/20 and I won $1000I was lucky and played well, but as I drove home I realized a couple of situations where I played a hand wrong, I feel more pride realizing that, than I do at winning a $1000- a bad player can win money but a good player can win and still see where he could of done better

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I was lucky and played well, but as I drove home I realized a couple of situations were I played a hand wrong, I feel more pride realizing that, than I do at winning a $1000- a bad player can win money but a good player can win and still see where he could of done better
you da man.
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I just noticed the picture of DS, did you see him in the latest PSI ep? Where he got pocket Aces like 6 times in one single session, it was insane.If we arent worried about making money, then maybe we shouldnt be playing poker....Are you serious? Thats really silly. You also said that you cant look at the amount of money you make as an indicator as to whether or not you are playing well.In single sessions? No, you cant look at one sessions outcome to determine if you are playing well, but you have to look at your overall results. If youve lost money after playing 15 sessions, then you probably have some big leaks in your game which need to be fixed, that, or you are on some sort of insanely bad run of cards, which happens, but less than people claim it does.It all comes down to how much you make, in the long run. You said or someone said something about bad players who do well, and then they didnt include whether or not they made money on a regular basis. If they are making it regularly, then I would second guess myself when I judged them as bad players. I know players who are loose as hell and make raises with garbage I wouldnt even consider playing, and yet, I consider them good players...Why is that? Because the extra action their loose agressive style gives induces others to give them more action and re-raise them with something as mediocre as TPTK. When you talk about good play, youve got to remember that there is more than one effective way to play, and no definitive way to play anything.

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I appreciate all the responses you guys have given. When I made reference to bad players who make money, I was speaking in the short term. And anyone who makes money regularly is definately doing something right. The only other things that seem to conflict with people's views are my opinions on A) playing against better players and B) my comment at the end. The playing better players issue is one that is not exactly a rule, I just think that if you really want to improve your game, then playing against better players will definately help you. You may start off in a game of better players as a loser, but we're talking long term here, and over time you will become a much better player and will start to be a winner in that game. Howard lederer said it took him 2 years to finally become a consistant winner when he started out in New York. He started out at this club, playing in a poker game that I'm sure had better players than him at the time(I believe Erik Siedel and others were a part of it), but look where he is now. My point being, playing against bad players will make you money, but looking to take your game to a a new level is gonna require practice and that probably means playing against better players. When that little line at the end of my last post, "And if you guys are THAT worried about winning and losing money, maybe poker isn't your game." I emphasized the word "that" in response to the posts before it to show that money isn't everything and in any given session(once again I'm referencing short term monetary gain/loss) then maybe poker isn't your game. If you lose some money in a session, which will happen to everyone, It shouldn't be any cause for concern unless it happens *every* session, then you probably should worry. Like I said earlier, I value my play over whether or not I made money on the hand. Usually the two go together, I play well-I make money. I don't play well-I don't make money. But that's just how I look at poker, I approach it just like any other game.

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the begging part of that post is adressed to you. The guy with the picture of David Skalansky. Is it that hard to figure out? or are you just being a pain?
I ment the rest of the post. I knew you were talking to me when you said DS. But then you were saying that I wrote things I never wrote, so I figured u were talking about a previous poster.
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When that little line at the end of my last post, "And if you guys are THAT worried about winning and losing money, maybe poker isn't your game." I emphasized the word "that" in response to the posts before it to show that money isn't everything and in any given session(once again I'm referencing short term monetary gain/loss) then maybe poker isn't your game. If you lose some money in a session, which will happen to everyone, It shouldn't be any cause for concern unless it happens *every* session, then you probably should worry. Like I said earlier, I value my play over whether or not I made money on the hand. Usually the two go together, I play well-I make money. I don't play well-I don't make money. But that's just how I look at poker, I approach it just like any other game.
I've played near perfect and ended up a 40BB loser for the night. It's a strange game because you can play well and still lose, and OTOH, play bad and still win. And winning money does matter. I have to pay bills, and some days are just gut wrenching. I lost about $700 this past week and had to pay all my bills. It sucks. (no I didnt dip into my BR for bills).We agree that you should worry about your game more than your money. If you play good, the money will follow.About jumping in to higher games, though. You learn how to play in that game. People semi-bluff more, people generally have a better idea of how to play, but you can't play the same at your local $5/$10 or you will lose money. You have to adapt to any game you play. Being good doesn't mean beating the big limits...beating the big limits just means you're good in that game. I understand where you are coming from, however, i'm just being nit picky.EDIT: replace big limits with good players.
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