Question For The Players 18-26 Years Old

[jay1085 0]

I'd really like to hear from BKice, PrtyPSux, PMJackson and Hoosier. Everybody else's comments are probably just speculation.

Everyone else's comments besides those guys are speculation???Give me a break.

[Socrates 0]

I'm not sure if its been said, but you can't really get a response that has much merit because the people who are 18-26 don't have any real life experience to compare anything to. Not until the poker bubble bursts and they find themselves looking for a real job will they understand that playing online doesn't translate well in a right wing corporate America. Coming into your first job interview and telling them you played online poker won't go over well with any management looking for a responsible individual. You can say its like a regular job in regards to hours and such, but what bearing does that have on a potential employer? You have no skills, except mouse clicking and I haven't seen to many jobs for that lately. I'm a firm believer that people should do what they want in life, but you need to understand what that is before its too late and your 35 years old working as a bellhop at a hotel. The poker bubble will burst and your lives will change. I would say marriage and such, but with the limited social interaction most online players it would seem that you may end up either lonely or with a long string of busted relationships. For the record, chicks don't dig guys who sit in front of a computer screen all the time. Some may, but their probably caught up in the poker fad too. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Playing poker and not getting at least an undergraduate degree is one thing I hear of more and more. I'll be the first to tell you that a high school diploma will get you nowhere and that in the next 10 years an undergraduate degree will have about the same influence as a HS diploma...not much. I guess my point to the inexperienced with life is to stay in school, never choose to play poker over a social event and remember that this will all be over soon and when poker is no longer the fad, you will be broke and have no skill set to fall back on.

[nutzbuster 7]

I'm not sure if its been said, but you can't really get a response that has much merit because the people who are 18-26 don't have any real life experience to compare anything to. Not until the poker bubble bursts and they find themselves looking for a real job will they understand that playing online doesn't translate well in a right wing corporate America. Coming into your first job interview and telling them you played online poker won't go over well with any management looking for a responsible individual. You can say its like a regular job in regards to hours and such, but what bearing does that have on a potential employer? You have no skills, except mouse clicking and I haven't seen to many jobs for that lately. I'm a firm believer that people should do what they want in life, but you need to understand what that is before its too late and your 35 years old working as a bellhop at a hotel. The poker bubble will burst and your lives will change. I would say marriage and such, but with the limited social interaction most online players it would seem that you may end up either lonely or with a long string of busted relationships. For the record, chicks don't dig guys who sit in front of a computer screen all the time. Some may, but their probably caught up in the poker fad too. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Playing poker and not getting at least an undergraduate degree is one thing I hear of more and more. I'll be the first to tell you that a high school diploma will get you nowhere and that in the next 10 years an undergraduate degree will have about the same influence as a HS diploma...not much. I guess my point to the inexperienced with life is to stay in school, never choose to play poker over a social event and remember that this will all be over soon and when poker is no longer the fad, you will be broke and have no skill set to fall back on.

No offense but in Vegas some of these guys make 70K a year doing this.My goal is work 3 more years, get better, get my pension, and then it's gonna be a hard core attempt at full time poker.

[Monster1 0]

I'm ancient compared to 95% of you (I'm guessing)....just turned 40. I really just started playing a few years ago and its strictly a hobby for me. I love playing but I have no aspirations of TP/MM or anything like that. I have a successful career and so does my wife. I dabble online and monthly in a neighborhood cash game....and get to the casino for $1/$2 NLHE maybe once every 3-4 months. I would guess I'm average to below average as a poker player.Anyway, enough prefacing..here's my question/statement: What kind of life do you younger guys have playing so much online poker? Where is the social interaction? The job skill development? I'm not judging...at least I'm trying not to. And this is a poker forum. But I'm very concerned that many of you are wasting your prime developmental years, not only socially but economically, by basically isolating yourselves in front of a computer screen, trying to make a living playing poker. I understand the thought that you are 'chasing a dream'...I get that. But you guys are SO young, its easy to lose perspective. The concern is you'll look in the mirror on your 30th birthday and realize you just pissed away your 20s doing something that doesn't translate into the 'real' world....and you won't be a 'pro'...and you'll still be living in your parent's basement. That's just my opinion...I'm sure it will go over like a red-hot poker up one's arse. And I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cornflakes. But its a legitimate concern of mine as I read the various forums and poker blogs. Just think about it. Good luck.

Finally, somebody is making sense on this site.

[Socrates 0]

No offense but in Vegas some of these guys make 70K a year doing this.My goal is work 3 more years, get better, get my pension, and then it's gonna be a hard core attempt at full time poker.

I know that there are some people who do this. Go to HI, you won't see anyone under the age of 30 working on a hotel staff for almost any position at a 4 or 5 star hotel. Even at 70K, that's not nearly enough to have me sling heavy luggage all day and work odd hours. It was just an example. Also, I live in a medium size city and have friends who are bell hops, they make about 35K a year. That's probably more the average than comparing it to Vegas or a tourist destination, but I understand your point.

[Dratj 0]

Everyone else's comments besides those guys are speculation???Give me a break.

I said probably which left some room for doubt. If you have someone valuable to add, say it. It's just that in my time on the forum's here, those are the guys whose opinions I would value most.

[OrzyVibe 0]

I'm not sure if its been said, but you can't really get a response that has much merit because the people who are 18-26 don't have any real life experience to compare anything to. Not until the poker bubble bursts and they find themselves looking for a real job will they understand that playing online doesn't translate well in a right wing corporate America. Coming into your first job interview and telling them you played online poker won't go over well with any management looking for a responsible individual. You can say its like a regular job in regards to hours and such, but what bearing does that have on a potential employer? You have no skills, except mouse clicking and I haven't seen to many jobs for that lately. I'm a firm believer that people dig guys who sit in front of a computer screen all the time. Some may, but their probably caught up in the poker fad too. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Playing poker and not getting at least an undergraduate degree is one thing I hear of more and more. I'll be the first to tell you that a high school diploma will get you nowhere and that in the next 10 years an undergraduate degree will have about the same influence as a HS diploma....

Here, here....I agree completely. I don't expect 80% of this board to understand it fully. The maturity level isn't always the highest here. This is really an issue that most will only realize after its too late. And I don't mean EVERYONE that is playing online....but certainly a good percentage. Employers don't want somebody that is 30 yrs. and has to completely train because they have no skills...that is what they do to 21 yr. olds fresh out of college. And explaining a 5-7 year gap in your work history to potential suitors is especially attractive when you have to tell them you played online poker.

[Dratj 0]

No offense but in Vegas some of these guys make 70K a year doing this.My goal is work 3 more years, get better, get my pension, and then it's gonna be a hard core attempt at full time poker.

So, you're going to be retired? I thought you were some young dude, Nutz.

[Doug 0]

Let people live their lives how they want. If they don't want to go out and want to play poker (even if this was the case which I mostly don't think it is) it is their choice. Now quit whining about other people just because it is strictly a hobby for you but not for other people, that doesn't mean you are right. They probably spend as many hours as you do at your 9-5 job. For such an old person that was a pretty immature and ignorant post.

[OrzyVibe 0]

Let people live their lives how they want. If they don't want to go out and want to play poker (even if this was the case which I mostly don't think it is) it is their choice. Now quit whining about other people just because it is strictly a hobby for you but not for other people, that doesn't mean you are right. They probably spend as many hours as you do at your 9-5 job. For such an old person that was a pretty immature and ignorant post.

Sigh. Like I said, its just my opinion. People are certainly going to live their lives however they see fit. You can lead a horse to water....

[nutzbuster 7]

So, you're going to be retired? I thought you were some young dude, Nutz.

LOL! Age is a state of mind. I think for most guys, after you hit around 25 or so a very large portion of the brain STOPS AGING! Then the wisedom of the years kick in but the sick thing is everything you liked at 25 you will still like just as much at 50+!I am in a unique situation where I will be vested for life in 3.4 years, including medical. Very fortunate/lucky to have this work out this way. Yes, I will be 50 then ( wow...) but ask anyone who knows me....you would never guess Im that old.I sure as helll dont feel like I am...and God help me if I ever start acting like it.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Orzy, I get the feeling that playing 3 hours per day while going to college isn't exactly killing my social life. I've been "pro" for two years now. It's allowed me to pay the bills and climb out of debt. It's taught me responsible money management and given me confidence. "Oh no!...my resume sucks!" Cubicle life is not the life I want, so I don't really care. Do I think I'll make millions of dollars doing this? Most likely not. But is it something fun and profitable for me to do while traveling and meeting people? You bet.And for the drawback of not having "social interaction", I'd much rather play poker online than do the soul-draining work of waiting tables.

[No_Neck 0]

without poker there is no way I could afford to go out and have a good time. I barely make enough at my crappy job to pay bills and rent. I ended up playing poker instead of watching TV in the evenings and bored spots in the weekend. There is no way watching TV is better than making money playing a game that is mentally engaging vs the passive entertainment on TV.It can take over your life but only if you are mentally weak enough to let it.

[Seattleallstar 0]

I'm ancient compared to 95% of you (I'm guessing)....just turned 40. I really just started playing a few years ago and its strictly a hobby for me. I love playing but I have no aspirations of TP/MM or anything like that. I have a successful career and so does my wife. I dabble online and monthly in a neighborhood cash game....and get to the casino for $1/$2 NLHE maybe once every 3-4 months. I would guess I'm average to below average as a poker player.Anyway, enough prefacing..here's my question/statement: What kind of life do you younger guys have playing so much online poker? Where is the social interaction? The job skill development? I'm not judging...at least I'm trying not to. And this is a poker forum. But I'm very concerned that many of you are wasting your prime developmental years, not only socially but economically, by basically isolating yourselves in front of a computer screen, trying to make a living playing poker. I understand the thought that you are 'chasing a dream'...I get that. But you guys are SO young, its easy to lose perspective. The concern is you'll look in the mirror on your 30th birthday and realize you just pissed away your 20s doing something that doesn't translate into the 'real' world....and you won't be a 'pro'...and you'll still be living in your parent's basement. That's just my opinion...I'm sure it will go over like a red-hot poker up one's arse. And I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cornflakes. But its a legitimate concern of mine as I read the various forums and poker blogs. Just think about it. Good luck.

I've lost my bank account and my sanity thanks to poker, any dreams of doing this thing for a living has all but evaoprated

[WhatArunAA 0]

Here, here....I agree completely. I don't expect 80% of this board to understand it fully. The maturity level isn't always the highest here. This is really an issue that most will only realize after its too late. And I don't mean EVERYONE that is playing online....but certainly a good percentage. Employers don't want somebody that is 30 yrs. and has to completely train because they have no skills...that is what they do to 21 yr. olds fresh out of college. And explaining a 5-7 year gap in your work history to potential suitors is especially attractive when you have to tell them you played online poker.

Here ya go, I'm 22 years old (23 in 2 weeks).. and Ive played "Professionally" for 2 years now. I grew up having 3 paper routes, and I worked my *** off from 13-19. My family didn't have any money at all, and now that ive had some success with poker.. I can afford things that I otherwise couldn't afford humping a 9-5. Although I am finishing up school, I am putting my degree on the back burner in the sense that I make more money now then I will when I have my "career" job. As for the social interaction.. yes it has stunted my social growth. I never go out anymore... I used to go out 2-3 times a week.. but I dont see that as a bad thing.. I live with my gf, and I ENJOY being home playing poker at night when my friends are out getting wasted. I get to travel, buy nice things.. and do things most kids my age cant do. I get to pay for dinner, freedom to do what I want when I want... and just live a more chill lifestyle. I do this because I want to.. but mostly because I love this game. Of coure there is downsides to this.. I don't have nearly as many friends as I did when I used to go out.. but as some of you venture out into the business world.. you surround yourself with the people you work with.. from the moment I sign online in the morning. .I am talking about " work" with my business "partners". We all have one thing in common, we love this game. I see alot of young players playing this game because they love the money, but it really isnt about that to me. I do it for the sheer enjoyment.. and If I could provide for myself without the actual poker income.. I would play for fun. As for the 5-7 year gap.. I could agree more, as long as you be honest with what you did, I really don't see it being a downside.. many business people are intrigued by the fact that one could make an X amount of income per year. If you are honest with yourself, and others.. you will live a more mentally stable lifestyle.I got this from one of the P5ers who wrote an article."A lot of times we hear about these up and coming young poker players with this amazing natural talent. I have less talent than you could possibly imagine. If you want talent, go look in the craps pit; there you'll find at least a couple of tremendously talented poker players losing their bankrolls. You'll find some more down at the bar getting drunk - but they'll be down at the tables soon enough too - plenty of poker talent around, but it's not me and it's not most of us who make a good living off this game. What talent I do have is tied up in discipline and a work ethic. With those talents, a person can survive and even thrive in this business - beyond even the abilities of the most talented amongst us who fail to have acquired the necessary discipline."--darrenelias

[fleung22 1]

good post orzy.i guess i can see it from both sides since i got into learning the game after college vs. my pro friend who basically played poker throughout the time i was partying. listing pros and cons of each scenario is the easiest method. the thing is some people will be bothered by some of the statements while others don't care. if you dream of playing poker for a career then i truly believe that starting early is a benefit. i can't think of too many great poker pros that started playing at the age of 30. there's certainly a bigger gamble playing poker as a kid because you don't exactly have transferable skills for many jobs. i've heard comparisons to people in sports but if you didn't make it as a basketball player there's still management and coaching. It's not often you see a down and out poker player teaching for a living. KID WITH POKER- higher learning curve by studying the game early- may have financial safety net of family vs. older player- online players may become anti-social or lonely- live players will find new peer group amongst gamblers (vs. other kids)- removed from social interaction of "normal" society- enters environment that encourages gambling and overspending- options are limited if poker career doesn't take offPOKER LATER- learning and instincts do not adapt as quickly for poker- poker money may be needed elsewhere for import things (e.g. morgage, food, etc.)- maturity may help with money management - spent youth doing silly/fun kid stuff- has other options if poker doesn't work

[WhatArunAA 0]

Johnny Bax.. but he acquired poker skills while he was a stock-broker.

[Dratj 0]

"A lot of times we hear about these up and coming young poker players with this amazing natural talent. I have less talent than you could possibly imagine. If you want talent, go look in the craps pit; there you'll find at least a couple of tremendously talented poker players losing their bankrolls. You'll find some more down at the bar getting drunk - but they'll be down at the tables soon enough too - plenty of poker talent around, but it's not me and it's not most of us who make a good living off this game. What talent I do have is tied up in discipline and a work ethic. With those talents, a person can survive and even thrive in this business - beyond even the abilities of the most talented amongst us who fail to have acquired the necessary discipline."--darrenelias

Thinking like Knish on Rounders. The consummate grinder. To be the best, you have to risk going broke and have a lot of gamble in you.

[fleung22 1]

Orzy, I get the feeling that playing 3 hours per day while going to college isn't exactly killing my social life. I've been "pro" for two years now. It's allowed me to pay the bills and climb out of debt. It's taught me responsible money management and given me confidence. "Oh no!...my resume sucks!" Cubicle life is not the life I want, so I don't really care. Do I think I'll make millions of dollars doing this? Most likely not. But is it something fun and profitable for me to do while traveling and meeting people? You bet.And for the drawback of not having "social interaction", I'd much rather play poker online than do the soul-draining work of waiting tables.

from what i know of you cobalt i would say you are not common amongst your age group. you have a maturity and discipline (from what i know of you) that i didn't have in my college years.i don't think orzy's saying it's a sin to play poker in your youth. it's more of a warning. i completely understand where he's coming from because until you jump 10-20 years forward you won't be able to look back at these years and know how valuable they really are. the payoff if you TP/MM is great but we all know people where it's not about work ethic...they just don't have a chinaman's chance to ever make it in poker. they all believe they are the next superstar.

[Doug 0]

Thinking like Knish on Rounders. The consummate grinder. To be the best, you have to risk going broke and have a lot of gamble in you.

I disagree, To be the best you have to work your way up to the top by being dicsiplined and sticking to gambles your bankroll can afford.

[CobaltBlue 662]

from what i know of you cobalt i would say you are not common amongst your age group. you have a maturity and discipline (from what i know of you) that i didn't have in my college years.i don't think orzy's saying it's a sin to play poker in your youth. it's more of a warning. i completely understand where he's coming from because until you jump 10-20 years forward you won't be able to look back at these years and know how valuable they really are. the payoff if you TP/MM is great but we all know people where it's not about work ethic...they just don't have a chinaman's chance to ever make it in poker. they all believe they are the next superstar.

The funny thing about playing for a living is that I consider myself somewhat "lazy" about it. Granted, outside of playing, I spend a lot of time watching, reading, learning about, and discussing the game, but I don't really put in the playing hours that I "should" if I consider myself to be a full-time player. I'm quite looking forward to my graduation at the end of this semester when I won't have to divide my time with structured academics anymore.

[11 to 1 0]

I'm ancient compared to 95% of you (I'm guessing)....just turned 40. I really just started playing a few years ago and its strictly a hobby for me. I love playing but I have no aspirations of TP/MM or anything like that. I have a successful career and so does my wife. I dabble online and monthly in a neighborhood cash game....and get to the casino for $1/$2 NLHE maybe once every 3-4 months. I would guess I'm average to below average as a poker player.Anyway, enough prefacing..here's my question/statement: What kind of life do you younger guys have playing so much online poker? Where is the social interaction? The job skill development? I'm not judging...at least I'm trying not to. And this is a poker forum. But I'm very concerned that many of you are wasting your prime developmental years, not only socially but economically, by basically isolating yourselves in front of a computer screen, trying to make a living playing poker. I understand the thought that you are 'chasing a dream'...I get that. But you guys are SO young, its easy to lose perspective. The concern is you'll look in the mirror on your 30th birthday and realize you just pissed away your 20s doing something that doesn't translate into the 'real' world....and you won't be a 'pro'...and you'll still be living in your parent's basement. That's just my opinion...I'm sure it will go over like a red-hot poker up one's arse. And I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cornflakes. But its a legitimate concern of mine as I read the various forums and poker blogs. Just think about it. Good luck.

I'm more ancient than you (57) and what is the difference, do you think, between staring at a computer screen all day playing poker or staring at a computer screen all day doing a 9-5 job for someone else? "Prime developmental years?" Your kidding, right? Let me clue ya - no time for development like right now. You think I'm done "developing" because I am pushing 60? Just gettin' started, kiddo. As far as "chasing a dream" that is your purely subjective take on it. Being an accountant seems like a reaonable way to make a living, but trying to do that, learning it, getting established and building a client list just don't seem like "dreams" to someone whose dream it is not. Some people are good at this amd can support themselves and it's a job they want. Now me, I wanted several jobs in my life and did them all. These days I supplement my income with poker. Seems pretty practical to me. If I were twenty years younger, I might do it full-time, maybe. There are more full-time poker players in this country than fossil preparators. (A job I once did.) Or high-rise window washers. You can make 30k a year or 60 or a million, depending on your skill level. I know you didn't ask for the opinion of an old fogey - so I'll get back out of the way of the thundering horde of primely developing youngsters.

[CBass1724 1]

Basically becoming a pro poker player and becoming a pro athlete are 2 in the same. Athletes growing up think nothing about making it to the pros when realistically a very miniscule percentage of them make it big. The important thing is having your education and a skill of some sort to fall back on in case you don't make it. The great thing about poker is that you can have a real job with "guaranteed" income as well as trying to make it big as a poker player.Like I've said before, I am 25 years old, have 2 classes left til I have my BS in Accounting, have a great job making good money for my age, own a house, and have a great girlfriend. I still find time to put in my hours at the poker table and am still one of the most immature bastards you'll ever meet because I love joking and having a great time. I have my priorities set though. Do I want to TP/MM? Of course, who wouldn't want that? I will try my hardest to make it there, but even if I don't succeed at doing that, I will always have my kollege digree to fall back on and will be able to find work in the future. The only way I would ever quit my job to play poker full time is if somehow I qualified for a WPT event or something like that and scored a huge win there. Odds of that are slim for now so I will stick with my j-o-b from 8-5am and poker a few nights a week at the 2-4, 3-6, and 5-10nl tables. I like both.Luckily my job is flexible enough for me to be able to mess around on these message boards and study some poker in my down time. I can't get enough of this game.

[checkymcfold 0]

having played professionally for nearly a year and 90% professionally for nearly 3 yrs while in grad school (and i'm 25, so i fit the bill, i guess)....i do think that all of OP's concerns are entirely legitimate. it is indeed a struggle to keep up with the necessary social aspects of being a 20-something, but having gone full time has actually allowed me the freedom to be as social as i want whenever i want. i've never been an especially extroverted person, but i can party with the best of em and playing cards hasn't gotten in the way of that as much as you'd think. of course, i had concerns along the lines of the OP's when i started out, so i've always made a conscious effort to stay social while doing the poker thing.i do try to keep a regular schedule with my play--2 3 hour sessions or so, about 6 days a week, with the occasional weekend or even week off as i see fit--but that doesn't end up being as time consuming as a regular 9-5 job in the end. it's also allowed me to take time off and visit my family more often than i was ever able to while in grad school (a "real world" thing that ate up about 60-70 hours a week, minimum), and my parents (in virginia) and my grandparents (pittsburgh and boston) have all said that they appreciate that part of my flexible schedule a lot. i've also been able to travel to see friends more than i was ever able to in grad school, since i can go stay at their place, bring my laptop, and just play while they're working, and then hang out during the evenings. and with my girlfriend, it's been much easier to say "let's go have fun for a weekend," or "let's go to france this summer" while only having one schedule to work around. so yeah, if anything, i feel like a poker lifestyle done right can actually aid in the social aspects of life.but in terms of meeting new people, etc., the poker thing probably as good as a "real job," and you're right in that regard. the casino-types dont' tend to be cut from the finest cloth, and although i've had the pleasure of meeting lots of great fcp people along the way, both online and in real life, it's probably true that a real job would have introduced me to more people my age, etc. but i have enough friends already, many of whom moved to chicago after college anyway (and i live with my best friend from school currently, too) and i see them all on a semi-regular basis. and although i may have met fewer people playing poker, the ones i have met i enjoy a great deal, a lot more, in fact, than the self-absorbed academics i had to feign interest for over the two years prior.and finally, the ability to work in pjs is pretty ****ing sweet. just saying.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Wake up 7am Spend time with family/wife/kids/friends about to go to work 7-8.30Sleep 8:30-3Play poker 3-7Do whatever (socialise etc) 7-12play poker 12-4Sleep 4-7RepeatThis is NOT my daily routine, but I think it would be interesting to see what its like. If you sleep when other people are at work it maximises your time with your family/socialising.Anyone have a routine like above?