I'm Trying To Learn...did I Do The Right Thing?

[Crosspointe1 0]

Before I start, this is not a bad beat or tough luck complaint!! I know I went wrong in that I limped preflop, but in your professional opinions is there a point where I should have recognized the 25. Is there any point where i should have folded, or is this a calling hand all the way? Any input is appreciated...>Table 'Nenetta II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: Crosspointe1 >($234.10 in chips) Seat 2: rounders24/7 ($208.05 in chips) Seat 3: Jr >Soprano ($207.45 in chips) Seat 6: bender3 ($235.20 in chips)>rounders24/7: posts small blind $1>Jr Soprano: posts big blind $2>*** HOLE CARDS ***>Dealt to Crosspointe1 [Ah Ac]>bender3: folds>bender3 leaves the table>Crosspointe1: calls $2>rounders24/7: folds>Jr Soprano: checks>*** FLOP *** [3c Ad 4d]>Jr Soprano: bets $3>Crosspointe1: raises $3 to $6>Jr Soprano: raises $9 to $15>Crosspointe1: raises $13 to $28>Jr Soprano: raises $177.45 to $205.45 and is all-in>Crosspointe1: calls $177.45>*** TURN *** [3c Ad 4d] [9s]>*** RIVER *** [3c Ad 4d 9s] [8d]>*** SHOW DOWN ***>Jr Soprano: shows [2h 5h] (a straight, Ace to Five)>Crosspointe1: mucks hand>Jr Soprano collected $413.90 from pot

[SBriand 4]

yeah, a raise pf would have (hopefully) gotten him out of the hand. Rather win blinds than lost that much.I don't think you can get away from it. I lose to if in the situation.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Before I start, this is not a bad beat or tough luck complaint!! I know I went wrong in that I limped preflop, but in your professional opinions is there a point where I should have recognized the 25. Is there any point where i should have folded, or is this a calling hand all the way? Any input is appreciated...>Table 'Nenetta II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: Crosspointe1 >($234.10 in chips) Seat 2: rounders24/7 ($208.05 in chips) Seat 3: Jr >Soprano ($207.45 in chips) Seat 6: bender3 ($235.20 in chips)>rounders24/7: posts small blind $1>Jr Soprano: posts big blind $2>*** HOLE CARDS ***>Dealt to Crosspointe1 [Ah Ac]>bender3: folds>bender3 leaves the table>Crosspointe1: calls $2>rounders24/7: folds>Jr Soprano: checks>*** FLOP *** [3c Ad 4d]>Jr Soprano: bets $3>Crosspointe1: raises $3 to $6>Jr Soprano: raises $9 to $15>Crosspointe1: raises $13 to $28>Jr Soprano: raises $177.45 to $205.45 and is all-in>Crosspointe1: calls $177.45>*** TURN *** [3c Ad 4d] [9s]>*** RIVER *** [3c Ad 4d 9s] [8d]>*** SHOW DOWN ***>Jr Soprano: shows [2h 5h] (a straight, Ace to Five)>Crosspointe1: mucks hand>Jr Soprano collected $413.90 from pot

First things first. You acknowledged yourself how bad you played the hand preflop, I agree. I'm a bit of a calling station and rarely ever fold sets, let alone top set. That being said though, if ever there was an opponent telling you that your hand is no good, it's certainly this one.

[nutzbuster 7]

bla blah blah blah...I know I went wrong in that I limped preflop, blah blah blah blah....(etc)...

Nuff said.G L next time!

[ramenandeggs 0]

The reason that beginners need to play tighter is because you put yourself in less situations to worry about. There are 4 betting rounds in hold'em and 3 of them are after the cards come out so knowing how to play postflop is the greatest advantage a hold'em expert can have. Now, that being said, the less that you know of how to play on 3rd 4th and 5th street, the less trouble you want to get into. You want to pick hands that you wouldn't need to know how to play and still win with, like pocket rockets where you're always at a great advantage over any other hand. You automatically know that you have the best hand preflop.When you are picking up rockets however, you want to raise it preflop for the same reason. You don't know what to do when people come in with junk hands and hit something strong and you won't be able to throw it away, like 2 5 in this case hitting a straight (however, that's a little hard to get away from since there was no action preflop and you can play almost any cards 3 handed in an unraised pot.) Another reason you keep in mind is that you raise aces to drive opponents out because your odds of winning with aces dramatically decrease with more hands in the mix. You probably wouldn't have needed to raise your aces to protect your hand since it's only 3 of you, but you would have needed to raise your aces to limit their hands so you have a better situation for yourself going in to the flop. Maybe someone will call you with two broadway cards or a smaller pocket in which case you have their hands completely dominated and can trap them for a lot of money if they're hitting an overpair or top pair. In summary, slowplaying aces isn't a rookie move and if you're trying to learn you don't necessarily have to sabatoge your own play and experiment until you have a better feel of things by watching your table. The most important thing about moving up in poker is knowing your table because you're the fish until you can recognize them. Tough luck there, you got outdrawn but it was probably the right move. Did you have any reads on your opponent? How aggressive was he? Would he have done that kind of a move with top pair? What did you put him on?

[CMOORACES 0]

You let it escalate too much on the flop. You have a good hand to be sure. But there is a flush draw and a straight possiblity. He could have those or could have the ace with a big kicker. Once you see that he's escalating the betting with you, stop it with a call and take a card off the turn. You can do that with the $15 bet. Then you can evaluate based on what he does. He may try to trap you and let you peel off a river card free. Or he may make it obvious that you'd better run for the hills.If the turn comes a diamond, he may act meek given the flush draw on board. You can then pounce and represent the flush to move him off the straight. Given that we know what the turn was, you might be facing a big bet from him. But it may not be an all in. You could still consider calling and represent that flush on the river. Or you can see the clear signal that you're beat and lay it down.You played your set. You didn't play your opponent. Make the call after that second raise and take that turn card. If you pair the board, you're in dominating position. If not, you can still get away from the hand. Don't be afraid to lay it down at that point.

[akoff 0]

Next time raise pre flop...I would have lost it all...and in less raises.ain't poker great.

[ramenandeggs 0]

You let it escalate too much on the flop. You have a good hand to be sure. But there is a flush draw and a straight possiblity. He could have those or could have the ace with a big kicker. Once you see that he's escalating the betting with you, stop it with a call and take a card off the turn. You can do that with the $15 bet. Then you can evaluate based on what he does. He may try to trap you and let you peel off a river card free. Or he may make it obvious that you'd better run for the hills.If the turn comes a diamond, he may act meek given the flush draw on board. You can then pounce and represent the flush to move him off the straight. Given that we know what the turn was, you might be facing a big bet from him. But it may not be an all in. You could still consider calling and represent that flush on the river. Or you can see the clear signal that you're beat and lay it down.You played your set. You didn't play your opponent. Make the call after that second raise and take that turn card. If you pair the board, you're in dominating position. If not, you can still get away from the hand. Don't be afraid to lay it down at that point.

i definitely agree. i realized this but i don't know why i didn't point it out (and also said he did the right thing). that hand strayed away from playing poker in so many ways, lol. but i have to wonder, if the turn brought out a blank card, which it did, i think i would have pushed him if he bet me hard there. if you were trying to represent a flush draw, at the 1/2 level, however i think it's possible we can see that kind of aggression with a flush draw from villian. and if he did, then we'd be the ones in bad shape if it hit. maybe he's the one that wants a free turn card. on the other hand, knowing where he is, i doubt he's going to let go of his flopped nuts. he's not daniel negreanu.

[Vogelb5 0]

Way too many thought out responses in general, not sure I'm in the right place....Soo many min raises.. I hate that, but lets move on..He has the straight or smaller set. Your HUGE favorite over smaller sets or 8 outs then 11 outs against unlikely straight. Preflop raises gets the straight out so that's definately the right move. In this situation I can't find a fold. I only see 33, 44, 25, 5(d)6(d) as possible holdings. Owning 2, outs against straight and flip against huge draw. Get money in, live w/ results

[Mr_Soprano 0]

I was the 25 in this hand, definately a shitty way to lose with AA and I was shocked when I saw that you had them.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I was the 25 in this hand, definately a shitty way to lose with AA and I was shocked when I saw that you had them.

Oh shut up. You would have called any raise preflop. Uber-donk.

[ramenandeggs 0]

I was the 25 in this hand, definately a shitty way to lose with AA and I was shocked when I saw that you had them.

what did you think he had? did you expect to get paid off by pushing into a smaller monster like a flopped set or did you know that he wouldn't have otherwise let go of a flush draw? i'm interested in knowing the other side of this.

[Mr_Soprano 0]

what did you think he had? did you expect to get paid off by pushing into a smaller monster like a flopped set or did you know that he wouldn't have otherwise let go of a flush draw? i'm interested in knowing the other side of this.

Inititally I thought weak ace but then his min raise told me he had something stronger, AK, set, 2 pair and flush draw was also possible, I cringed on the river when the diamond fell thinking I lost the hand.

[TS Clark 0]

The old advice is still the best advice -- Do NOT go broke in an unraised pot. Just don't.You were going to lose money with this hand with the way you played it, but the second time he popped you, it's time to think about whether you should just take your beating and wait for a better spot.Don't limp with aces unless you know some maniac is bound to raise. And especially don't do it if you know you're one of those people (and there are many, many) who can't lay down a hand with two aces post-flop.GL.

[Mr_Soprano 0]

Oh shut up. You would have called any raise preflop. Uber-donk.

Actually no I wouldn't have, even if he min raised me here I'm folding. Don't have my Poker Tracker stats in front of me but from what I remember he had a pretty good image and I'm not calling a raise with 25 out of position.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Most people are forgetting to mention that 52 is a monsterno joke, its a great handbut i dont think theres anyway to get away from it. You got the second nuts, so 80% of the time, you'll be like 10-1 favourite (or even more in reality), and 20% or so of the time you'll be like 30% to win.Needless to say, Phil Hellmuth could have folded

[Socrates 0]

The pf limp was horrible as has already been acknowledged. With that said. I think I flat call the 15 and see what he does on the turn. I'm going to guess he'd give you a free card as he probably doesn't have you on a diamond semi-bluff. I let him check the turn or make his small bet and call, if I don't fill up on the river I'm laying it down to any bet or checking it out.

[Vogelb5 0]

The old advice is still the best advice -- Do NOT go broke in an unraised pot. Just don't.You were going to lose money with this hand with the way you played it, but the second time he popped you, it's time to think about whether you should just take your beating and wait for a better spot.GL.

What are you putting him on? It's extremely likely that he has an under-set.Once again, his possible holdings.. 25, 44, 33.... A4, A3 (added from previous post, possible).. less likey 56(diamonds)How do you not get all in vs this range of hands? limping AA on a 345 flop would be don't go broke on an unraised pot, but I don't see it fiting our example.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Yeah, wtf r all these guys talking about? It's easy to say don't go broke when u see your opponent has the nuts. But I think 99% of players will go broke with this hand after that flop.And Socrates, r u seriously telling me that you'd check/call and play it as a drawing hand ? and lay down if you dont hit your 'draw'. So with 67 on a flop of 89T, r u playing it super passively ?

[jburn812 0]

You need to fold this hand after the last reraise of 177. I would say no one is going to put in that bet without the nuts unless he is a stone cold dumb maniac. In which case you will already have that read and you should call. If he was playing "average" then you definently need to fold at this point. It is the only practical hand that he could have. He is not going to make that move on a draw. He might have the case ace and make two pair but that is highly unlikely and highly unlikely that even if he has two pair he would make this move. I think it would benefit you to read HOH it deals with a lot of the logic of poker.

[Socrates 0]

Yeah, wtf r all these guys talking about? It's easy to say don't go broke when u see your opponent has the nuts. But I think 99% of players will go broke with this hand after that flop.And Socrates, r u seriously telling me that you'd check/call and play it as a drawing hand ? and lay down if you dont hit your 'draw'. So with 67 on a flop of 89T, r u playing it super passively ?

No, I'm saying that if I ever limped against a blind like that, the first thing I do is remind myself that I limped and that no matter what happens, I may have to let it go, whether I'm right or wrong as I have no idea where I am in the hand. A player is not making tiny raises like that unless they want you to call. I'm not opposed to laying down big hands when I know I played it wrong and that I may be beat. 10 years ago I would have had all my money in the middle...after doing that a few times you learn that you have to consider you may be behind and that you can live to play another day. I see more than my share of players who show me bluffs and leave the table broke long before I go anywhere.As for playing it as a drawing hand, I'm saying that a tiny bet means one that you can call with that "draw" (remember, he bet, you made a small raise, he made another small raise), so yes, technically I'm making the assumption I need a card to win. A flopped set on that board is different than flopping the chump end of a straight.A side note - in a micro game like this, yes, I'm calling everytime as the amount of money at stake is minimal and I will gamble at small stakes games like that. In a 5/10 game I'm doing exactly what I said I would do 90% of the time. We've also been given no read information about this player (25) so I'm assuming he's a good player. This is one of the biggest obstacles for the children of NL who came to pay after MM. They play cash games like tournaments and that just doesn't work.

[finztotheleft 0]

Crosspoint,As already said, don't get cute slowplaying aces, riase preflop and get him to fold his caacaa hand.Just FYI, make posts like this in the strat forums under the appropriate game. Surprisingly, you received good answers here, but "beginner mistakes" like this tend to get flamed in general, but you'll get (mostly) good and educational answers in the strat forums. You will also want to use a hand converter and do not post the results of the hand. In this hand, we can all see that he had 25off and your call was no good. Knowing that will influence some of the results you'll get. Without the results, you can see who really would have been astute enough to fold AA here vs those who would have called hoping the opponent had the flush draw, top pair, or lower a set.This is the hand converter that I use hand converter

[Jam-Fly 8]

No, I'm saying that if I ever limped against a blind like that, the first thing I do is remind myself that I limped and that no matter what happens, I may have to let it go, whether I'm right or wrong as I have no idea where I am in the hand. A player is not making tiny raises like that unless they want you to call. I'm not opposed to laying down big hands when I know I played it wrong and that I may be beat. 10 years ago I would have had all my money in the middle...after doing that a few times you learn that you have to consider you may be behind and that you can live to play another day. I see more than my share of players who show me bluffs and leave the table broke long before I go anywhere.As for playing it as a drawing hand, I'm saying that a tiny bet means one that you can call with that "draw" (remember, he bet, you made a small raise, he made another small raise), so yes, technically I'm making the assumption I need a card to win. A flopped set on that board is different than flopping the chump end of a straight.A side note - in a micro game like this, yes, I'm calling everytime as the amount of money at stake is minimal and I will gamble at small stakes games like that. In a 5/10 game I'm doing exactly what I said I would do 90% of the time. We've also been given no read information about this player (25) so I'm assuming he's a good player. This is one of the biggest obstacles for the children of NL who came to pay after MM. They play cash games like tournaments and that just doesn't work.

Ah, I misread what you said. The way I read it I though you were flat calling the first small bet, but I think flat calling the small reraise is fine.

[TwoFourOffsuit 0]

Yeah, you got this one right: you should have raised preflop instead of limping, as the 25o that sucked you out likely would have folded.

[Jam-Fly 8]

25o got u dominated every time dude