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Jury To Rule On Nature Of Poker...


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I just read some articles on this topic on gutshot. There are quite a few more articles on the Gutshot trail, just look under... duh... articlesSeems like they are doing a goos job defending.My thoughts are:I hope the jury consists of a few young people, at least half of them.If you read the articles you can see the man who's questioned is an old slug who just has to give in at everything the defenders say. Thats must give of a signal to the jury that the police or prosecuters are running a thin tread that can easely be broken.I have good faith in the outcome of this trail. The English are beer-drinking and gambling people... how can they live without poker!?Jan

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They do have a valid argument that chance is a factor once the cards are shuffled and dealt, however, the counter to this is, it's not what cards your dealt, it's how you play those cards. There's where skill outweighs the chance factor.

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All you need for evidence is some hand on the WPT when a guy reraises with 2-7 and forces a guy to muck JJ or some other strong winning hand. As someone already said, it's clearly not what cards you get but how you play them.

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I think for this case to have any chance of winning, one specific point must be introduced:It is only chance when the cards are flipped up, with all the money in the middle, and there are cards still needed to be shown.The prosecution could argue that because you 'can' get lucky to win, that it is a game of chance. It needs to be stressed to the jury that the more skillful players, who have more experience and knowledge on the game, win more because they manage to win more chips w/out showdown, but out-betting their opponents. Other similar tenants of poker should be discussed.I think it was allen cunningham that said 'poker is 100% skill and 100% luck.'Doesn't make much sense, but kinda makes ya think at the same time..

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In my country that question was decided a decade ago, I don't understand how anyone can seriously argue that poker is not a game of skill - in the long run, chance just doesn't matter.
If by "in the long run, chance just doesn't matter." you mean that two people of identical skill levels, over the course of a lifetime, could end up with millions of dollars difference in profit due to chance alone, I agree. But somehow I think you meant something different.
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If by "in the long run, chance just doesn't matter." you mean that two people of identical skill levels, over the course of a lifetime, could end up with millions of dollars difference in profit due to chance alone, I agree. But somehow I think you meant something different.
I completely disagree that is possible, unless those two people play tourneys like the WSOP ME and one of them gets incredibly lucky. Winning and losing evens out - the better players win money, the others lose money. If poker were a game of chance, noone could play it professionally.
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I think for this case to have any chance of winning, one specific point must be introduced:It is only chance when the cards are flipped up, with all the money in the middle, and there are cards still needed to be shown.
Since, clearly, getting dealt AA when somebody else has KK has nothing to do with chance.
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Since, clearly, getting dealt AA when somebody else has KK has nothing to do with chance.
So what, after playing 100K hands, you'll have had AA when your opponent had KK the same number of times as the other way round.bad beat forum?
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its a combination of luck and skill and you dont leave it to a jury to come up with that.
Doesn't the fact that there is skill involved, even if it's only to the smallest degree, mean that it's therefore purely a game of skill?Name virtually any game/sport in the world and there will be an element of luck in it, just to different degrees. I think that to call poker a game of luck would be to equate it to a lottery and it clearly is nothing like a lottery. If you think about a national or state lottery, roulette, bingo, Keno etc these are all games of luck whereby numbers are selected randomly and money is won or lost depending on what numbers are selected.Money in poker can be won or lost before any cards are seen, and this is purely down to the skill of the player. If poker were simply a game of luck, then all cards would be dealt face up and the best hand would win every time.You're right you don't need a jury to decide that.Here's an update. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6252751.stm
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Doesn't the fact that there is skill involved, even if it's only to the smallest degree, mean that it's therefore purely a game of skill?
C'mon.And the guy on trial should be thrown in jail, even for for saying something as moronic as:"If I sat down to play with you (Det Insp Darren Warner) nothing would detract from who is the best player other than skill."
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Ok, I know I should stay out of this... but of course there is chance involved. That element of chance is heavily outweighed by the players skill. Now, almost every competitive sport has an element of chance. This element of chance is often outweighed by the players skill. So why should poker be any different?Edit: Reading my post, I think it misleads which side of this argument I'm on. I think the guy should be able to have his card club.

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Prosecutors say that merely shuffling the cards introduces an element of chance into the game.
How many games don't have an element of chance? Let's say you're playing golf and you hit a nice long fairway shot, should have a good roll when it hits that will carry it another thirty yards. The wind has blown a branch onto the fairway, the ball hits it, takes a bounce into the woods and is lost. There goes the Green Jacket.If there was no luck in games, the best player would win every one to paraphrase Phil Helmuth.
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