Borgata Wpt Structure

[rgold79 0]

I am thinking about trying to satellite into the WPT event at the Borgata at the end of the month. I noticed that levels in the main event are 75 minutes, but starting stacks are $30K. Does this offer as much play in the early levels as tournaments with 90 minute levels and fewer starting chips? I'm curious as the relationships of starting chips and blind level length vs. the speed at which people get knocked out.To try to answer this question myself I briefly calculated how long a person could last assuming standard blind levels folding throughout. For example, supposing one hand every two minutes, if you do nothing but fold you should expect to last mins in a tournament with 20K chips and 90 minute levels (assuming standard blind levels, 45 hands/level, 5 from each position) - Note: I used the standard structure used in Bellagio tournaments.(5(25) + 5(50)) + (5(50) + 5(100)) + (5(100) + 5(200)) + (5(100) + 5(200) + 45(25)) + (5(200) + 5(400) + 45(50)) + (5(300) + 5(600) + 45(75)) = 18,375= ~540 mins, and let's just estimate that the remaining 1625 will go within the first 20 minutes of the next level meaning you would last about 560 minutes.For the Borgata (30K @ 75min, again 2 min per hand, 37.5/level, 4 in each position then 5 at each in level four) Here I used the actual structure for the upcoming tournament.(4(25)) + 4(50)) + (4(50) + 4(100)) + (4(75) + 4(150)) + (4(100) + 4(200)) + (5(100) + 5(200)) + (4(150) + 4(300) + 37.5(25)) + (4(200) + 4(400) + 37.5(50)) + (4(250) + 4(500) + 37.5(50)) + (5(300) + 5(600)) + 37.5(75)) + (4(400) + 4(800) + 37.5(75)) = 31,312.5, meaning approximately 650 minutes or so would elapse.I used some rough calculations but it seems like you might get a little more play out having more starting chips versus longer levels. If I butchered any of the math please let me know. It is important to note the differences in structure between the Bellagio and the Borgata. Anyway, what I am hoping for is that some feedback as to what people have found in reality when playing tournaments.

[gilbertology 0]

Do you have a link to the schedule?

[DCJ001 0]

Good question. I thought about the difference too. I'm not sure what the average hands per hour in a WPT main event is but I used 30 HPH like what you used. Keep in mind that the Borgata Open ends day 1 after level 7. Here's what I came up with. The stack size is the amount left after the level is over.75 min levels $30k in chips to startLev Stack 0 $30,0001 $29,7192 $29,1563 $28,3134 $27,1885 $24,5636 $20,4387 $15,75090 min levels $20k in chips to startLev Stack 0 $20,0001 $19,6632 $18,9883 $17,9754 $16,6255 $13,4756 $8,5257 $2,900Borgata structure at http://www.theborgata.com/Main.cfm?Categor...5C5CD980271EB8B

[pnambic 0]

Here's a link to a handy spreadsheet to answer that kind of question. As for the specific one, using the Borgata blind structure for both variations, it's very close (11.5h@$30K/75m vs. 11h for $20K/90m). The Bellagio structure as given by the OP gives less than 10 hours to blind-off.Blah, I guess I could have just said that the OP got it right. ;} Anyway, the spreadsheet might be helpful.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Unfortunately, this calculation doesn't tell the whole story. Reason being, that while you would ante off in an equal amount of time, after you blind out, the tournament still goes on! If at that point the structure is at an even pace, then going forward, the Borgata structure would move ahead a FULL level after five more rounds of play. An example: Through six more levels, the Borgata structure would take 450 min, while the Bellagio structure would get to that same point after 540 min. So, with Bellagio event starting level 7, the Borgata event would already be in level 8 for 15 minutes and be going to level 9 in 60 minutes.

[DCJ001 0]

Unless I'm missing something, at 31 hours the Borgata structure is still slower than the one at Bellagio:2007 Borgata Winter OpenLevel # Ante Small Blind Big Blind 1 $25 $50 1.25 Hours2 $50 $100 2.5 Hours3 $75 $150 3.75 Hours4 $100 $200 5 Hours5 $25 $150 $300 6.25 Hours6 $50 $200 $400 7.5 Hours7 $50 $250 $500 8.75 Hours8 $75 $300 $600 10 Hours9 $75 $400 $800 11.25 Hours10 $100 $500 $1,000 12.5 Hours11 $100 $600 $1,200 13.75 Hours12 $200 $800 $1,600 15 Hours13 $200 $1,000 $2,000 16.25 Hours14 $300 $1,200 $2,400 17.5 Hours15 $300 $1,500 $3,000 18.75 Hours16 $400 $2,000 $4,000 20 Hours17 $400 $2,500 $5,000 21.25 Hours18 $500 $3,000 $6,000 22.5 Hours19 $500 $4,000 $8,000 23.75 Hours20 $1,000 $5,000 $10,000 25 Hours21 $1,000 $6,000 $12,000 26.25 Hours22 $2,000 $8,000 $16,000 27.5 Hours23 $2,000 $10,000 $20,000 28.75 Hours24 $3,000 $12,000 $24,000 30 Hours25 $3,000 $15,000 $30,000 31.25 Hours12/14/06 Bellagio Doyle Brunson OpenLevel # Ante Small Blind Big Blind 1 $50 $100 1.5 Hours2 $100 $200 3 Hours3 $25 $100 $200 4.5 Hours4 $50 $200 $400 6 Hours5 $75 $300 $600 7.5 Hours6 $100 $400 $800 9 Hours7 $100 $500 $1,000 10.5 Hours8 $200 $600 $1,200 12 Hours9 $200 $800 $1,600 13.5 Hours10 $300 $1,000 $2,000 15 Hours11 $400 $1,500 $3,000 16.5 Hours12 $500 $2,000 $4,000 18 Hours13 $500 $3,000 $6,000 19.5 Hours14 $1,000 $4,000 $8,000 21 Hours15 $1,000 $5,000 $10,000 22.5 Hours16 $2,000 $6,000 $12,000 24 Hours17 $2,000 $8,000 $16,000 25.5 Hours18 $3,000 $10,000 $20,000 27 Hours19 $3,000 $12,000 $24,000 28.5 Hours20 $4,000 $15,000 $30,000 30 Hours21 $5,000 $20,000 $40,000 31.5 Hours

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Unless I'm missing something, at 26 hours the Borgata structure is still slower than the one at Bellagio:2007 Borgata Winter OpenLevel # Ante Small Blind Big Blind 1 $25 $50 1.25 Hours2 $50 $100 2.5 Hours3 $75 $150 3.75 Hours4 $100 $200 5 Hours5 $25 $150 $300 6.25 Hours6 $50 $200 $400 7.5 Hours7 $50 $250 $500 8.75 Hours8 $75 $300 $600 10 Hours9 $75 $400 $800 11.25 Hours10 $100 $500 $1,000 12.5 Hours11 $100 $600 $1,200 13.75 Hours12 $200 $800 $1,600 15 Hours13 $200 $1,000 $2,000 16.25 Hours14 $300 $1,200 $2,400 17.5 Hours15 $300 $1,500 $3,000 18.75 Hours16 $400 $2,000 $4,000 20 Hours17 $400 $2,500 $5,000 21.25 Hours18 $500 $3,000 $6,000 22.5 Hours19 $500 $4,000 $8,000 23.75 Hours20 $1,000 $5,000 $10,000 25 Hours21 $1,000 $6,000 $12,000 26.25 Hours12/14/06 Bellagio Doyle Brunson OpenLevel # Ante Small Blind Big Blind 1 $50 $100 1.5 Hours2 $100 $200 3 Hours3 $25 $100 $200 4.5 Hours4 $50 $200 $400 6 Hours5 $75 $300 $600 7.5 Hours6 $100 $400 $800 9 Hours7 $100 $500 $1,000 10.5 Hours8 $200 $600 $1,200 12 Hours9 $200 $800 $1,600 13.5 Hours10 $300 $1,000 $2,000 15 Hours11 $400 $1,500 $3,000 16.5 Hours12 $500 $2,000 $4,000 18 Hours13 $500 $3,000 $6,000 19.5 Hours14 $1,000 $4,000 $8,000 21 Hours15 $1,000 $5,000 $10,000 22.5 Hours16 $2,000 $6,000 $12,000 24 Hours17 $2,000 $8,000 $16,000 25.5 Hours18 $3,000 $10,000 $20,000 27 Hours

Are you sure that's correct? I don't believe that the Borgata starts with 25-50 blinds, but I could be wrong.

[DCJ001 0]

Are you sure that's correct? I don't believe that the Borgata starts with 25-50 blinds, but I could be wrong.

http://www.theborgata.com/Main.cfm?Categor...5C5CD980271EB8B

[DanielNegreanu 141]

http://www.theborgata.com/Main.cfm?Categor...5C5CD980271EB8B

Wow, they added a ton of early levels and that's what makes the difference:25-5075-150150-300250-500 Looks like an excellent structure. If you are going to go with 75 minute levels that can work out fine, provided that you are adding levels to the event. I'm good with it.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Wow, they added a ton of early levels and that's what makes the difference:25-5075-150150-300250-500 Looks like an excellent structure. If you are going to go with 75 minute levels that can work out fine, provided that you are adding levels to the event. I'm good with it.

One thing that is excessive though is the 15 minute breaks after each level, plus the 75 minute dinner break. That'll just make each day longer than it needs to be. I would suggest making the breaks 10 minutes, or make them 15 or 20 minutes every other level.

[rgold79 0]

Thanks for the input, everyone. On the balance I would say that it does look like an excellent structure. One other note I considered, given that everyone will start with a larger than ordinary stack, assuming only an average turnout there should be significantly more chips in play at the final table than there are at other similar events. This would alleviate some concerns people have expressed about the amount of play at the final table in WPT events.

[kkcountry 0]

Thanks for the input, everyone. On the balance I would say that it does look like an excellent structure. One other note I considered, given that everyone will start with a larger than ordinary stack, assuming only an average turnout there should be significantly more chips in play at the final table than there are at other similar events. This would alleviate some concerns people have expressed about the amount of play at the final table in WPT events.

actually not, since the WPT resets the blinds to whatever level gives the average chip stack (at 6 handed) 40BBs.

[DCJ001 0]

actually not, since the WPT resets the blinds to whatever level gives the average chip stack (at 6 handed) 40BBs.

That's where this comes into play:Level Blinds26th By DirectorIf there are 600 players, the average stack at the final six would be $3 million. So I guess the big blind would be around $75k.I wouldn't get concerned about this level until I get there, but then again I wouldn't be too concerned - big payday either way.

[TeeSludge 0]

bump, didn't feel like creating new topic..anyone playing the $500 tomorrow, let me know.. i'll be there