Head_Trauma 0 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 No Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $1/$26 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $183UTG+1: $219CO: $191Button: $433.60Hero: $936.95BB: $343.65Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.Flop: :D ($6, 3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.Turn: ($6, 3 players)Hero bets $5, BB folds, Button calls.River: ($16, 2 players)Hero bets $15, Button raises to $61, Hero raises to $199, Button calls.Results:Final pot: $414No real specific read on villain other than he is not very good, doesn't understand hand values too well. Which is clear here since he obviously has a 10.So the question is how much to reraise on the end there? After he raised to $61, he had $365 behind. Shoving would be a huge overbet, but I'm wondering if anyone thinks this is a good play? How often does he call with just the 10? Is it better to make a healthy raise like the one I made to ensure the call?He insta-called my raise and it made me desperately wish I had shoved Link to post Share on other sites
Doug 0 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think it's the correct play. I would only have raised all-in if I had been watching that guy for a while longer and knew he was a complete fish. If you look at it now you can see he would call almost any raise as he cannot fold a hand such as a straight. Altogether though it's a fine play and will shot profit. Link to post Share on other sites
disctiger85 0 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 If you think the player is bad enough then I love a shove. Most players in his spot think that they have the nuts. He's only worried about one hand and probably won't take the time to put you on that hand. He's got to have a T here and I'm willing to bet he would've called a shove convinced it's at least a split. Link to post Share on other sites
bonuskiller 0 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 should have shoved , He would have probably thought you only had the 10 also Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Shove. He'll be terrified of folding a chopping hand and getting outplayed. I shove and expect a call almost every time from a ten. If he's able to get away from Tx, it'd be an anomaly, or your read is wrong.Wang Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 No Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $1/$26 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $183UTG+1: $219CO: $191Button: $433.60Hero: $936.95BB: $343.65Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.Flop: :D ($6, 3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.Turn: ($6, 3 players)Hero bets $5, BB folds, Button calls.River: ($16, 2 players)Hero bets $15, Button raises to $61, Hero raises to $199, Button calls.Results:Final pot: $414No real specific read on villain other than he is not very good, doesn't understand hand values too well. Which is clear here since he obviously has a 10.So the question is how much to reraise on the end there? After he raised to $61, he had $365 behind. Shoving would be a huge overbet, but I'm wondering if anyone thinks this is a good play? How often does he call with just the 10? Is it better to make a healthy raise like the one I made to ensure the call?He insta-called my raise and it made me desperately wish I had shoved If I have the nuts and my lead gets raised, all the money's going in. I'm not playing pit-pat. Link to post Share on other sites
Shimmering Wang 1 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 If I have the nuts and my lead gets raised, all the money's going in. I'm not playing pit-pat.That's kind of a silly, less-than-optimal maxim to follow... Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 That's kind of a silly, less-than-optimal maxim to follow...Test it some time. And I'm not kidding. I've never seen a river bet raiser who had half a hand make a laydown. They chase their chips into the pot every time. Now, you may know how to laydown. I know how to laydown. 85% of the rest of the world (or more) does NOT know how to laydown. The whole reason for this post is that the villain 'insta-called." If he really did "insta-call" he didn't pay much attention to the amount he was calling. Link to post Share on other sites
Head_Trauma 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 The whole reason for this post is that the villain 'insta-called." If he really did "insta-call" he didn't pay much attention to the amount he was calling.Yes, but this is being results-oriented. I wished I had shoved AFTER seeing him insta-call. I posted this because I am wondering if any of you make this shove in normal circumstances with a generally bad player.The more I think about it, I think it becomes a shove only because him having just a 10 and raising me on that river is a horrible play. Therefore he is probably a horrible player and will most likely call a push. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If we had bet the flop, then we can push without an overbet. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If we had bet the flop, then we can push without an overbet.Eh, I don't like betting the flop. The only cards that put our hand in jeopardy are those that pair the board, give an opponent the chance to lead at the pot.As for the river, I shove. If he's gonna call another 130, he's gonna call for everything. If he raises, he basically has to have a 10, and with a 10, most opponents are going to call. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Eh, I don't like betting the flop. The only cards that put our hand in jeopardy are those that pair the board, give an opponent the chance to lead at the pot.As for the river, I shove. If he's gonna call another 130, he's gonna call for everything. If he raises, he basically has to have a 10, and with a 10, most opponents are going to call.Bet that flop all day long. A straight is the most vulnerable monster you can flop.Shoving the river is not bad. With $365 behind he's calling $199... I think it's 75%+ chance that he would call a shove. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Eh, I don't like betting the flop. The only cards that put our hand in jeopardy are those that pair the board, give an opponent the chance to lead at the pot.Suppose one of our opponents bets. What's the rest of your line? Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Eh, I don't like betting the flop. The only cards that put our hand in jeopardy are those that pair the board, give an opponent the chance to lead at the pot. No. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If we had bet the flop, then we can push without an overbet.Exactly. By betting the flop, we've built the pot in case this river scenario comes up. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If we had bet the flop, then we can push without an overbet.QFT. There are a lot of hands that can pay us on that flop - any manner of sets, two pairs, pair+straight draws, etc.There are also a lot of turn cards that can scare those hands and prevent us from getting paid.As played, I think it is kinda close, but I shove. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 On the flop:I like to win big pots with when I have the nuts.To many cards come to kill our action, ie 7, T, Q if the villain doesn't have the T or some gutshot draw.Flop gets paid off by tens, sets, 2 pair, etc all day long.Build a pot!Slowplaying is gay. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 On the flop, I'm going for a smallish checkraise, then value betting the turn/river barring scary cards. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 On the flop, I'm going for a smallish checkraise, then value betting the turn/river barring scary cards.I don't hate that. I'd want to be pretty sure someone would bet. And I feel it tips the strength of our hand more without getting a bunch of money in the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Yes, but this is being results-oriented. I wished I had shoved AFTER seeing him insta-call. I posted this because I am wondering if any of you make this shove in normal circumstances with a generally bad player.The more I think about it, I think it becomes a shove only because him having just a 10 and raising me on that river is a horrible play. Therefore he is probably a horrible player and will most likely call a push.I know being "results-oriented" is kind of a no no around here, but I guess I am results-oriented. Again, I'll say that I rarely, if ever, see a laydown from someone who's raised a bet on the river. It just doesn't happen. I got the nuts at the river, and my value bet gets raised, I'm going to re-value by shoving. Link to post Share on other sites
eroc824 0 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 i like ur play and if this guy is as bad as he seems at the table he will be giving you all his chips soon enough!! Link to post Share on other sites
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