Is There Anything I Haven't Tried?

[chipnut 0]

I've been playing poker for many years but there is nowhere close by to play so if I am going to play regularly it has to be online. I do keep book in live play and have been winning.I use PokerOffice to try to anylize my online play. I read forums such as this, 2+2 and CardPlayer. I read CardPlayer. I read SSHE twice before changing to NL. I have read HOH I & II twice each and III once. I've also read Super Systm, Ace on the River, Making the Final Table, Killer Poker Online, NLHE (McAvoy), and every book Sklansky ever wrote.I have had winning sessions and gone very deep in some MTT, but overall my results online suck. For every winning session I will have 10 losers. I have tried many different styles but none seems to effect the results. I believe that I should be able to beat the game, but don't know what to do next. I feel like I'm missing some simple element that could turn all of this work into something, but don't know where to look.I would appreciate suggestions, and if this gives the children who clutter every forum out there need to post "cause you suck", have at it. I am hoping some more mature players will have some adult advice.

[Zach6668 513]

I haven't used PokerOffice, but I was under the understanding Pokertracker is a ton better for cash games, but I could be wrong. I think I'd die without my PT.I'd also recommend posting hands in our strategy section, there are forums here for each form of poker, find the one for the style you play, and there are a ton of amazing players who will help you out. IMO, posting, reading, replying to hands with an open mind is the best way to learn. Well, for me it is, and worked quite well for me.

[lostless 0]

The successful player there is invariably seeing 70-80% of the flops, going all in on draws or with small pairs, and calling raises with any draw. In a live game these are dream opponents. Online these are big winners.

This being a quote from the other thread. I would respectfully say that your perception of the online game is incorrect. Perhaps you have been running bad, or had some pots not go your way. But I believe your fundemental assumptions about the online game are flawed and need some serious work if you would like to become a long term winner.Try posting some hands in the strat forms.Also, I would recommend starting out at the very lowest levels of online play to build some confidence and some of the basic skills: 5NL and maybe 0.10/0.20 limit or 5 dollar SNG.

[Actuary 3]

improve

[Abbaddabba 0]

If you're playing small stakes, get a good rakeback and bonus scheme going.It's the most effective use of your time.Improving is better too. But most people wont ever improve enough to show as big a jump in results as 100% rakeback will provide you.

[ChrisRichey 1]

I read SSHE twice before changing to NL.

SSHE is for LHE, not NLHE. As already stated, posting hands and replying to others is a great way to work on your game.

[trystero 0]

Improving is better too. But most people wont ever improve enough to show as big a jump in results as 100% rakeback will provide you.

where?

[ahosang 0]

I'll say my usual advice to players that are in a rut(which I'm sure no-one ever tries):Learn and play a new gameIt gives you a challenge - it can appeal to you more, and it helps your overall poker understanding by thinking about the contrast in the games.You can always come back and play holdem.PLO on Bodog, or even 2-TD on Stars maybe....

[antistuff 0]

where?

absolute with a bonusfull tilt is pretty close too...reload next thursday rummor has it.....

[Zach6668 513]

absolute with a bonusfull tilt is pretty close too...reload next thursday rummor has it.....

Meh, AP blew it with their new bonus structure.Check out http://bonuswhores.com and look at some sites, you'll find some good deals/deposit bonuses, etc, equating to close to full RB.

[Fade2241 0]

improve

If only your other 14k posts were this insightful. j/kI would also suggest watching the best player in your game play. Study what he does etc. DN has an old article about this that I found very helpful when trying to improve my cash game play. Other than that I agree with everyone else that you also might try to break down your fundimentals and restudy the game preflop forward. You can't fix the problem if you don't identify it.

[navybuttons 15]

it's not that difficult, really. play a 1 table cash game, maybe $10NL. watch every single hand. put opponents on specific hands (even ones where you were not involved) and pull up every hand that is shown down. examine how close you were and when you're off think about why you were off. things to consider: was player A trickier than you thought? is player B a slowplayer? is C a calling station? is D an overbet bluffer?poker is not a game of cards, of your preflop raising stats, or the percentage of hands won at showdown. it is a game of people. at the lowest limits people are way too predictable. each will have fundamental flaws you can exploit. study why opponent E gets the better of you or if you could have got more value from your flush from player F, or if you should have obviously laid down your set to player G.work through each hand when you are playing it. goodluck

[No_Neck 0]

it's not that difficult, really. play a 1 table cash game, maybe $10NL

I would rather jerk off with sandpaper. *tademark of Allinbluff35I would learn a new game. It is amazing how much PLO will help your holdem game.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

it's not that difficult, really. play a 1 table cash game, maybe $10NL. watch every single hand. put opponents on specific hands (even ones where you were not involved) and pull up every hand that is shown down. examine how close you were and when you're off think about why you were off. things to consider: was player A trickier than you thought? is player B a slowplayer? is C a calling station? is D an overbet bluffer?poker is not a game of cards, of your preflop raising stats, or the percentage of hands won at showdown. it is a game of people. at the lowest limits people are way too predictable. each will have fundamental flaws you can exploit. study why opponent E gets the better of you or if you could have got more value from your flush from player F, or if you should have obviously laid down your set to player G.work through each hand when you are playing it. goodluck

Good advice.

I would rather jerk off with sandpaper. *tademark of Allinbluff35I would learn a new game. It is amazing how much PLO will help your holdem game.

Stupid.

[ahosang 0]

Shimmering Wang, is there something stupid about learning/playing another poker game?? Care to explain why this might be detrimental in the long run??Or maybe you're just a Holdem specialist who can't bear the thought of another player leaving your pond, lol.Navybuttons' advice is good of course regarding opponent classification. If OP could admit that he doesn't consider opponent tendencies much, then this is a good exercise. But the OP believes he has the knowledge to beat games(presumably bigger than $0.05/$0.10).I believe OP needs to re-approach poker. Being in a rut at any game sucks, and maybe OP isn't actually that good at holdem anyway. Learning and playing a new game is an excellent way to refresh the mind, especially if one is very analytical, and thinks about poker concepts a lot.Also, how much PLO have you played, and why did you think it was bad for your holdem game?? Did it make you too tight?? Maybe you didn't play PLO as well as you thought then. Don't shoot down ideas unless you have a good reason please.

[No_Neck 0]

Stupid.

learning different games really helps your all your games. I don't get it but it is true.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Shimmering Wang, is there something stupid about learning/playing another poker game?? Care to explain why this might be detrimental in the long run??Or maybe you're just a Holdem specialist who can't bear the thought of another player leaving your pond, lol.Navybuttons' advice is good of course regarding opponent classification. If OP could admit that he doesn't consider opponent tendencies much, then this is a good exercise. But the OP believes he has the knowledge to beat games(presumably bigger than $0.05/$0.10).I believe OP needs to re-approach poker. Being in a rut at any game sucks, and maybe OP isn't actually that good at holdem anyway. Learning and playing a new game is an excellent way to refresh the mind, especially if one is very analytical, and thinks about poker concepts a lot.Also, how much PLO have you played, and why did you think it was bad for your holdem game?? Did it make you too tight?? Maybe you didn't play PLO as well as you thought then. Don't shoot down ideas unless you have a good reason please.

Look, the idea of learning a new game is fine, but will rarely turn you from a big-time loser into a big-time winner AT THAT GAME. In my opinion, his losses are from some sort of fundamental MISUNDERSTANDING of the game he's playing. Learning a new game is something all players should do. Increasing one's poker knowledge can only help one's play in ALL games. But NoNeck seemed to suggest that NavyButtons's good advice- slowing the game down, poring over every hand, etc.- was somehow incredibly worthless and not worth the OP's time (jerking off with sandpaper). This is pretty irresponsible advice. Once the OP realizes what's wrong with his approach, I think he SHOULD take some time to play a little PLO or some stud. But until he gets his approach in order, that's just avoiding the problem

learning different games really helps your all your games. I don't get it but it is true.

See above. And it helps because a new game puts you in a new situation where you're not relying on previously used maxims (ie, "this is a raise, and this is a fold"), forcing you to think MUCH harder about the game. You take these new angles back to your old game.Wang

[Abbaddabba 0]

I think getting heavily into PLO is just as likely to help as it is to hurt him with NLHE.It's probably a good way of relaxing if you already 'get it' and just need a break from your regular game to clear your head.But the habits you pick up in PLO wont necessarily push him in the right direction. I can imagine someone getting pretty paranoid about being beat, and turning into a really tight, really passive hold em player because of all of the coolers in omaha. And then we'll have to endure several more threads about folding kings preflop, and folding bottom set on the flop (in hold em).

[Actuary 3]

No Neck would rather jerk off with sandpaper than play 1 tble of $10 NL, due to boredom.That's how I interpreted that

[No_Neck 0]

But NoNeck seemed to suggest that NavyButtons's good advice- slowing the game down, poring over every hand, etc.- was somehow incredibly worthless and not worth the OP's time (jerking off with sandpaper).

yea that was wrong, I ain't so good with the english. I just can't stand sitting there playing one table, it makes my ADD ridden *** crazy. Not saying it is a bad idea, just not for me. Also I would recomend poker videos, like card runners or pokerxfactor.

[Actuary 3]

No Neck would rather jerk off with sandpaper than play 1 tble of $10 NL, due to boredom.That's how I interpreted that

^^^^^^^^^^that guy has a knack for intepreting intent over the interwebs

[No_Neck 0]

^^^^^^^^^^that guy has a knack for intepreting intent over the interwebs

and you put it better than I could have. (that was for fluff dog)

[smallwd 0]

Is it possible OP is reading too many books and is:1. playing way too tight and predictable and/or2. seriously overanalyzing every action of the other playersOne of the biggest things I found about the different books I've read is that they assume your opponents know what the hell they're doing. My experience online (granted it's much less than most of you) is that the play is pretty straightforward and terrible. Big bets mean big hands or big bluffs. Checks mean they've got crap and they'll fold to a bet or chase some ridiculous draw (gutshot on the river or draw to a 6-high flush). At the lower limits you shouldn't run into many players that are way better than you.You could try play money for a while to get used to the terrible style and practive mixing up your play.

[ahosang 0]

Wang, thanks for replying - you're right in what you say.

I think getting heavily into PLO is just as likely to help as it is to hurt him with NLHE.It's probably a good way of relaxing if you already 'get it' and just need a break from your regular game to clear your head.But the habits you pick up in PLO wont necessarily push him in the right direction. I can imagine someone getting pretty paranoid about being beat, and turning into a really tight, really passive hold em player because of all of the coolers in omaha. And then we'll have to endure several more threads about folding kings preflop, and folding bottom set on the flop (in hold em).

You don't really get what I'm suggesting though. If you want to turn into a Holdem winner after losing consistently, well you simply have TONS of work to do. I'd even consider a coach if it means that much to you(I don't mean you abba, but someone like OP).What I'm actually suggesting to OP - who seems to be at his wit's end - is to actually take up a new form of poker. Yes I know it's crazy, but there is profit and enjoyment in poker outside of holdem. NO REALLY KIDS, IT'S TRUE!!!! I don't play much holdem these days, and I'm killing loose 7-stud and 7-A 5CD games as I type.maybe OP just sucks too much right now at holdem. But he may profit and enjoy poker while playing a different form. Then suddenly while thinking or reading something, it might go - PING - and there's a little more understanding and a desire to play holdem again with a bit more confidence and nous.OP, if it's really holdem you want to crack and nothing else, then you probably need to post loads of hands here and at 2+2. Good Luck....

[chipnut 0]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I have been stacked 3x in 2 days. All 3 times I had the best hand early, raised and bet aggressively, was called and chased by extremely weak holdings (Q7o?) that sucked out.Maybe I'm just running bad, but 4 years is a long time to be unlucky. I just played my last hand online. Incidentally, at all 3 tables the players doing the best were playing nearly every hand, and catching cards 50% of the time.If DN ever actually logs on here again, say hey for me.