Recent Wsop Me Champions

[zimmer4141 0]

for some reason i always thought he died early...thanks for the pointing that out.however, my reasoning still stands...he blew his mind when it should've been at it's best.

The stuff he did away from the table doesn't change the fact that when sober, he was the greatest tournament player of all time. If there's one player I would stake in a tourney when sober, it would be Stu.

[H_Factor73 2]

Thanks for the link to the stink.I think it is impossible to say who is the best out of the last 10 champions because it is a very subjective question. Even if you consider the number of cashes over their careers, final table appearances and their tournament earnings, it still doesn't factor in style of play and the luck factor.That being said, it is hard to deny Stu Ungar the title of best of the best merely because of his three world championships and legendary abilities at the table. That is not subjective. Rather than rank the champions, I would be more inclined to group them into categories because you can nit pick at whether Ferguson is more conservative player than Scotty and whether that makes one better than the other, but it doesn't necessarily answer the concrete question:Best of the Best:1997 Stu Ungar - He may not have had life management skills, but the guy could flat out play.Solid Champions:1998 Scotty Nguyen - He got a little too much crazy in him for my taste, but it's hard to argue with his sucess on the WPT over the last four years.2000 Chris Ferguson - With his number of final tables and cashes, even though he lucked his win out against T.J. Cloutier, he's proven himself in the last six years2001 Juan Carlos Mortensen - He's obvioulsly a strong "modern" player who has continued to cash in tournament play since his victory.Up and Comers:2005 Joe Hachem - With solid finishes in this 2006's WSOP and Circuit Events he proves he's not just a flash in the pan. Add his recent WPT title you can't call him a fluke.2004 Greg Raymer - He plays more games than just Hold'em and plays them plays them well enough (in tournaments) to be a competitor at the top levels. However, my opinion of him has dropped as he has not learned when to shut his mouth when he starts to sound ignorant. He seems to be willing to bicker over petty crap. That does not add to his aura as champion but doesn't degrade his abilities either.Remains to be seen:2006 Jamie Gold - He won the biggest tournament ever. However, he seems to be on the idiot side of the page.Pretenders:2003 Chris Moneymaker2002 Robert Varkonyi Both Moneymaker and Varkonyi define the amateur as winner for the last five championships. They both made some crazy calls and got lucky in their Championship bids. I think they know how to play the game, but they don't appear to have the chops to be winners over the long run. Moneymaker has had some minor cashes (excluding his one other final table at the Bay 101) since his victory and Varkonyi has had less. Nothing has been enough to elevate either player to another level. That being said, three to four years does not make a career. (Although, repeated success in that time does solidify your legacy.)Unknown:1999 Noel Furlong - I don't know enough about him to categorize his abilities.

[snooptoddd 0]

I am so sick of people not giving Varkoni his due. I mean did you see what happened to his wife after his training? She beat out like 2000 other players in the 2006 ME, that's way more than Stu Unger EVER beat in one sitting.

Just because he taught his wife the rules of the game and she became a better player than he is doesn't mean he's a good player. The only thing he's won since the Main Event was the Extreme Poker Challenge in Finland ...

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Anyone who wins the WSOP has to be lucky. Anyone who has won in the era of the mega-fields has to be real real lucky.

[flyingdonkey 0]

I am so sick of people not giving Varkoni his due. I mean did you see what happened to his wife after his training? She beat out like 2000 other players in the 2006 ME, that's way more than Stu Unger EVER beat in one sitting.

Thank you for bringing this up Balloon Guy... You Varkonyi haters need to STFU!!!!! What he has done for the game of poker is a lot more than Doyle has ever done! Don't forget that Varkonyi won a tournament which was held outside in sub-zero conditions. Yeah, im sure you all forget about that one! His wife is now considered one of the top 5,000 women players in the world, thanks to his training. P.S. I forgot to mention that his book "VOH" (Varkonyi on Holdem) is due out this summer...

[sixhands 0]

99 ME champ, also got 6th in 89 ME. Wikipedia says he's a recreational player, owns a carpentry business making millions so he barely plays tourneys anymore.

Thanks for the info but he had a CARPET Manufacturing business and not a carpentry business.Not that I care too much but thought I would just let you know :DThanks to MX for giving me the link to wikipedia, without I would not have been able to point out Rogue's error.Hey guys, miss me?

[Balloon guy 158]

Just because he taught his wife the rules of the game and she became a better player than he is doesn't mean he's a good player. The only thing he's won since the Main Event was the Extreme Poker Challenge in Finland ...

Isn't some new guy Onnglaloongadonngo on FT a Fin?I guess when you beat an entire country that's no big deal?????

[Balloon guy 158]

Thank you for bringing this up Balloon Guy... You Varkonyi haters need to STFU!!!!! What he has done for the game of poker is a lot more than Doyle has ever done! Don't forget that Varkonyi won a tournament which was held outside in sub-zero conditions. Yeah, im sure you all forget about that one! His wife is now considered one of the top 5,000 women players in the world, thanks to his training. P.S. I forgot to mention that his book "VOH" (Varkonyi on Holdem) is due out this summer...

Thanks for watching my back on this one.

[fleung22 1]

The stuff he did away from the table doesn't change the fact that when sober, he was the greatest tournament player of all time. If there's one player I would stake in a tourney when sober, it would be Stu.

"when sober" is the key to your phrase. I'd give Stu a 10k buy-in for the WSOP ME but only if i could put another $1k that guaranteed him to be sober.and what you do away from the table DOES affect you on the table.Stu used to take coke to help him stay awake during excessively long sessions. It was said in his autobiography that guys like Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese had amazing endurance and could stay up for days and play rock solid the whole way through. Some players needed a pick-me-up to keep going and Stu chose that route.Stuey had already begun using drugs before he moved to Vegas so one could also look at cocaine as a form of mind-altering cheating. It keeps you awake and gives you great confidence. Not bad things to bring to the felt.I dunno...death creates stories. Stories create exaggerations and myths. Exaggerations and myths create legends.Besides the drugs...most of the great poker moments for Stu have to do with making amazing calls. How did he make that call?!?! WOW!!There aren't any great laydowns I can think of.

[gameOUver 0]

"when sober" is the key to your phrase. I'd give Stu a 10k buy-in for the WSOP ME but only if i could put another $1k that guaranteed him to be sober.and what you do away from the table DOES affect you on the table.Stu used to take coke to help him stay awake during excessively long sessions. It was said in his autobiography that guys like Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese had amazing endurance and could stay up for days and play rock solid the whole way through. Some players needed a pick-me-up to keep going and Stu chose that route.Stuey had already begun using drugs before he moved to Vegas so one could also look at cocaine as a form of mind-altering cheating. It keeps you awake and gives you great confidence. Not bad things to bring to the felt.I dunno...death creates stories. Stories create exaggerations and myths. Exaggerations and myths create legends.Besides the drugs...most of the great poker moments for Stu have to do with making amazing calls. How did he make that call?!?! WOW!!There aren't any great laydowns I can think of.

They didn't have hole cams in his days, therefore you don't really know when he or anyone for that matter was making a good lay down unless both players involved showed their hands, which didn't happen ever.

[ROGUE06 0]

"when sober" is the key to your phrase. I'd give Stu a 10k buy-in for the WSOP ME but only if i could put another $1k that guaranteed him to be sober.and what you do away from the table DOES affect you on the table.Stu used to take coke to help him stay awake during excessively long sessions. It was said in his autobiography that guys like Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese had amazing endurance and could stay up for days and play rock solid the whole way through. Some players needed a pick-me-up to keep going and Stu chose that route.Stuey had already begun using drugs before he moved to Vegas so one could also look at cocaine as a form of mind-altering cheating. It keeps you awake and gives you great confidence. Not bad things to bring to the felt.I dunno...death creates stories. Stories create exaggerations and myths. Exaggerations and myths create legends.Besides the drugs...most of the great poker moments for Stu have to do with making amazing calls. How did he make that call?!?! WOW!!There aren't any great laydowns I can think of.

Didn't Barry Greenstein say exactly that?No doubt Ungar be far is one the best of all time. Noone should doubt his talent. Also I don't think cocaine is really cheating...he was a junkie and chose drugs for many of the same reasons drug addicts do them.

[Morpheus 0]

If someone has an account on the 2+2 forum can you please post in that Raymer vs Daniel thread:"All of this discussion is pointless....Raymer may be good, but Daniel is way better. The proof was shown in the NBC heads up championship last year when Daniel pwned Raymer heads up. End of story."That would be sick if they had a rematch at this years heads up championship.

[fleung22 1]

No doubt Ungar be far is one the best of all time. Noone should doubt his talent. Also I don't think cocaine is really cheating...he was a junkie and chose drugs for many of the same reasons drug addicts do them.

I'm just playing devil's advocate gents. I'm actually a big Stuey fan.The post about no hole cams is a really good point but only strengthens my statement about myth and exageration. Few of us have watched Stu play and even fewer ever got to know his hole cards.All these "for sure Stu" posts are based on nothing but stories. Y'all just guessing and so am I which is why I'm a lil' surprised that everyone is so quick to pick him as the best.At least with Raymer, Moneymaker, Gold, etc. we have actually had a glimpse of their play and can make a poorly informed opinion. Our knowledge of Stu is below poor.also...Since there is no drug testing coke isn't technically cheating. But why are there so many who use drugs as an excuse for his ultimate defeat but not his wins too? If I'm feeling bad from a death or break-up I may need some time to recover before I can play my A-game on the green felt. Guess what? A bump or two and you'll feel great. Tired? bump. Scared? bump. Withdrawl? bump.Addiction sucks but people do drugs to make them feel better. Maybe coke helped him during his peak more than people know.Don't forget...he is widely considered the best gin player but there is a definite debate about his poker greatness.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

This is how I'd rank them1.1997 Stu Ungar2.2001 Juan Carlos Mortensen3.2005 Joe Hachem4.1998 Scotty Nguyen5.2000 Chris Ferguson6.1999 Noel Furlong I'm not going to rank the bottom four because the dudes over at 2+2 might go ballistic, lol.

[theresa113 0]

I saw Zimmers list and I was thinking that was close to what would write then I saw Daniel's and I was like... hey... they was how I was going to list the top but now that DN has responded I would just look like a copy cat so I guess I am just responding to this thread for nothing.

[theresa113 0]

I'm not going to rank the bottom four because the dudes over at 2+2 might go ballistic, lol.

you really are a troublemaker, huh?

[Balloon guy 158]

you really are a soon-to-be-bald troublemaker, huh?

fyp

[getarealjob 0]

This is how I'd rank them1.1997 Stu Ungar2.2001 Juan Carlos Mortensen3.2005 Joe Hachem4.1998 Scotty Nguyen5.2000 Chris Ferguson6.1999 Noel Furlong

good ranking

[gameOUver 0]

This is how I'd rank them1.1997 Stu Ungar2.2001 Juan Carlos Mortensen3.2005 Joe Hachem4.1998 Scotty Nguyen5.2000 Chris Ferguson6.1999 Noel Furlong I'm not going to rank the bottom four because the dudes over at 2+2 might go ballistic, lol.

Why does DN have a vote or opinion on this? Can't he ever keep his opinions to himself, what is this, America or something?... Sorry thought this was the 2+2 forum

[blakheart 3]

This is how I'd rank them1.1997 Stu Ungar2.2001 Juan Carlos Mortensen3.2005 Joe Hachem4.1998 Scotty Nguyen5.2000 Chris Ferguson6.1999 Noel Furlong I'm not going to rank the bottom four because the dudes over at 2+2 might go ballistic, lol.

Wow- putting Raymer in the bottom 40% already is going to send them over the edge!!

[snooptoddd 0]

Wow- putting Raymer in the bottom 40% already is going to send them over the edge!!

Yeah, he easily could have stopped with the top five, but throwing Noel in the mix really makes it fun.So DN, you going to change the avatar to reflect the bald dome?

[KyleEvans 0]

The stuff he did away from the table doesn't change the fact that when sober, he was the greatest tournament player of all time. If there's one player I would stake in a tourney when sober, it would be Stu.

To be fair, even when he was high as a kite his results werent bad. In 1990 he ended day 1 as the chip leader in the main event and was to sick to come back on day 2 but he blinded out and came 9th. I think thats a bigger acomplishment than harrington b2b fts in massive fields, because harrington wasn't to bombed to leave his hotel room.

[fleung22 1]

To be fair, even when he was high as a kite his results werent bad. In 1990 he ended day 1 as the chip leader in the main event and was to sick to come back on day 2 but he blinded out and came 9th. I think thats a bigger acomplishment than harrington b2b fts in massive fields, because harrington wasn't to bombed to leave his hotel room.

I think Raymer's WSOP victory and then going into 2nd last day as chip leader the following year was more impressive than Harrington.

[OVERKILL 0]

I was going to say Carlos wasnt getting enough praise, but DN put him where I would have.I watched him play for 5 days at the opening of the WSOP and he FT'd twice. I missed the 2nd final table,but I watched him play the first 1 and for 6hrs the night before, and he pwns. * sidenote* He also builds very cool looking chip stacks, like castles and sh!t.

[offset 0]

The thing I don't like about hachem is he is often on a shortstack, doubles up a few times as a favorite, loses another all in, and then complains about his bad luck. He should realize that he got lucky to win all the all ins before the one he lost.