socalpoker_j 1 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I was reading some 4 and headed over to one of the most entertaining forums that they have on the site: NVG. Saw a thread created in response to an article DN wrote for the LV Sun: "Actually the (recent) World Series of Poker winners in general, you look at them and you're like OK, Moneymaker, Raymer, Gold, you think OK these guys can't play, and the general consensus is that these guys got lucky," Negreanu said."But you know, with Joe, he actually plays like a pro. The other three don't. The other three are kind of like flash-in-the-pan types..."DN could you clarify or better explain this? The DN hate on 4 is beginning already.The 4 Thread Link to post Share on other sites
almostharmless 0 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 "Actually the (recent) World Series of Poker winners in general, you look at them and you're like OK, Moneymaker, Raymer, Gold, you think OK these guys can't play, and the general consensus is that these guys got lucky," Negreanu said."But you know, with Joe, he actually plays like a pro. The other three don't. The other three are kind of like flash-in-the-pan types..."The 4 Thread I agree about Hachem. I think he continues to improve and shows serious game although I'd sure like to know what sent him on tilt at the World Series (throwing his hand in the air and yelling "I've got the rockets, baby!") I can't think of any pro that would pull that sort of stunt. So he's still got some growing up to do, but I like his game overall and expect to see him do well over the next few years.I'm not sure about Raymer, but I certainly agree about Moneymaker and Gold. So far as I can tell, Moneymaker hasn't improved at all since 2003. Jamie Gold had no real game at all, just a phenomenal run of cards. I still remember the scene at the final table when he traps Wasicka, then runs over to Chan and says "I trapped him! I'm playing really well, aren't I?" Need I say that this was about as far from a pro attitude as one can imagine? (Ironicallly enough Wasicka sucked out on Gold on the hand, which only made the irony more delicious). He's also practically a textbook on tells; I think he gets away with it because nobody can believe that someone winning like that would be that obvious. Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I remeber that everybody was saying how good Raymer was becasue he went deep the next year also, but besides that I think, obviously, that Hachem is the only one that has proved himself. I am not denying the skill on the others, because no matter how lucky they got, they won the main event, but Hachem is definately a great player. I would like to see Gold play on HSP and see how he does in future tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 link to raymers responce.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...e=0&fpart=5these to have got to get in the octagon Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 link to raymers responce.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...e=0&fpart=5these to have got to get in the octagon did raymer say that recently?-i saw the post was recent but not necesarily the quote Link to post Share on other sites
KidPokurr 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I remeber that everybody was saying how good Raymer was becasue he went deep the next year also, but besides that I think, obviously, that Hachem is the only one that has proved himself. I am not denying the skill on the others, because no matter how lucky they got, they won the main event, but Hachem is definately a great player. I would like to see Gold play on HSP and see how he does in future tournaments.I think of the "unproven" ME champs, very few of them have played WPT events.I also think that joe plays well but raymer is not a donkey as far as I'm concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
JacKingOff_suit 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Greg was a relatively live one at PS's plo8 1k cash game and I loved having position on him, but too bad fish won't last long at plo8. Yes, you are a fish at plo8 Greg. But Joe is a much tougher competition at the plo8 1k cash game. I don't know their other game skills but Joe is a much better poker player in my humble opinion. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=57983http://wintermute-ca.livejournal.com/35629.html Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 This whole thing is ridiculous. Raymer/Gold have a game, but Joe has a great game...why is this even an issue?Joe H. is a more consist big event winner. WSOP ME winner, WPT, I mean , if THOSE 2 things alone don't give you at least 10 years worth of credible poker clout then what the helll will?On the likeability scale, I've been lucky enough to have met Joe, Greg and Daniel. Joe is just a great guy, very likeable and willing to chat. As we all know, obv. ditto for DN. Greg was nice but way more stand-offish, not sure if this is shyness or what. Just seemed more full of himself. (NO...that was not a food joke). The only guy that really makes my skin crawl is Gold. I just can't like this guy...not sure why but he is just....slimey?Hachem is the real deal and easily stands above those other folks right now. So....pass the sugah! Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 This whole thing is ridiculous. Raymer/Gold have a game, but Joe has a great game...why is this even an issue?Joe H. is a more consist big event winner. WSOP ME winner, WPT, I mean , if THOSE 2 things alone don't give you at least 10 years worth of credible poker clout then what the helll will?On the likeability scale, I've been lucky enough to have met Joe, Greg and Daniel. Joe is just a great guy, very likeable and willing to chat. As we all know, obv. ditto for DN. Greg was nice but way more stand-offish, not sure if this is shyness or what. Just seemed more full of himself. (NO...that was not a food joke). The only guy that really makes my skin crawl is Gold. I just can't like this guy...not sure why but he is just....slimey?Hachem is the real deal and easily stands above those other folks right now. So....pass the sugah!have you met Gold yet? He does seem a little 'slimey' but he was chip leader in the main event for 12 million and i'm sure there was a lot of pressure. I wouldnt' judge him too quickly althought he may in fact be slimey. Link to post Share on other sites
theresa113 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Gold Sounds slimey to me. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 have you met Gold yet? He does seem a little 'slimey' but he was chip leader in the main event for 12 million and i'm sure there was a lot of pressure. I wouldnt' judge him too quickly althought he may in fact be slimey.ok yeah, maybe a little quick to judge, but just going on what we all know from the media and what Ive seen,,,um....still not convinced he's some fantastic individual. More to my point is that Joe H. deserves the praise and credit for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 ok yeah, maybe a little quick to judge, but just going on what we all know from the media and what Ive seen,,,um....still not convinced he's some fantastic individual. More to my point is that Joe H. deserves the praise and credit for the moment.Yea-from what i've seen, Joe is the nicest and best pro that won the ME from the last 4 years. I used to go on the sites to look for the pros and not many would talk to the railers but Joe would always talk. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I hate how all this drama just totally overlooks Robert Varkoni, it's like he isn't even here. Link to post Share on other sites
combuboom 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I hate how all this drama just totally overlooks Robert Varkoni, it's like he isn't even here. i lol'ed Link to post Share on other sites
sprewell 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Actually the (recent) World Series of Poker winners in general, you look at them and you're like OK, Moneymaker, Raymer, Gold, you think OK these guys can't play, and the general consensus is that these guys got lucky," Negreanu said."But you know, with Joe, he actually plays like a pro. The other three don't. The other three are kind of like flash-in-the-pan types..."OK this was in a magazine? Daniel you're simplifying matters when you say all you did was say Hachem was the best of them, you couldn't stop at that, you had to say Raymer CAN'T play, "the general consensus is that he got lucky", and he certainly doesn't play like a pro, and "kind of like flash-in-the-pan". OK if that's your opinion but don't go whining in your blog when Raymer responds. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 "Actually the (recent) World Series of Poker winners in general, you look at them and you're like OK, Moneymaker, Raymer, Gold, you think OK these guys can't play, and the general consensus is that these guys got lucky," Negreanu said."But you know, with Joe, he actually plays like a pro. The other three don't. The other three are kind of like flash-in-the-pan types..."OK this was in a magazine? Daniel you're simplifying matters when you say all you did was say Hachem was the best of them, you couldn't stop at that, you had to say Raymer CAN'T play, "the general consensus is that he got lucky", and he certainly doesn't play like a pro, and "kind of like flash-in-the-pan". OK if that's your opinion but don't go whining in your blog when Raymer responds. That's NOT what I said at all and it was totally taken out of context. It was more like, "Generally when a new guy wins people assume they got lucky and can't really play, just kind of a one hit wonder. Joe is a real pro though." Link to post Share on other sites
Head_Trauma 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 That's NOT what I said at all and it was totally taken out of context. It was more like, "Generally when a new guy wins people assume they got lucky and can't really play, just kind of a one hit wonder. Joe is a real pro though."DN, are u saying your interviewer took your comments out of context? Or someone else? Link to post Share on other sites
sprewell 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 That's NOT what I said at all and it was totally taken out of context. It was more like, "Generally when a new guy wins people assume they got lucky and can't really play, just kind of a one hit wonder. Joe is a real pro though."Well then I stand corrected! I thought these were correct quotes. Link to post Share on other sites
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