Balloon guy 158 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 So Daniel, With the list of small ball players you have made, Ivey, Hansen, etc; all solid players, what is the best strategy to defeat these player? Bigger raises to not give them the right price, take away the control from them?Or are you just more dependant on hitting flops better then them? Link to post Share on other sites
Dratj 0 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 So Daniel, With the list of small ball players you have made, Ivey, Hansen, etc; all solid players, what is the best strategy to defeat these player? Bigger raises to not give them the right price, take away the control from them?Or are you just more dependant on hitting flops better then them?i would imagine the best way would be to have position on them. Link to post Share on other sites
GoStags92 0 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 So Daniel, With the list of small ball players you have made, Ivey, Hansen, etc; all solid players, what is the best strategy to defeat these player? Bigger raises to not give them the right price, take away the control from them?Or are you just more dependant on hitting flops better then them?One comment Daniel made in his WSOP video blogs last year was that he tends to change the pre-flop raise depending on the strength of the table - the harder the players, the larger the pre-flop raise. Again, I don't necessarily think that this is how you beat small-ball players, but it may slow them down on the number of flops that they see. Link to post Share on other sites
the_rabbi 0 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Gavin Smith said a big raise preflop slows him down more than anything. Someone like Phil Hellmuth seems to need the absolute nuts to call a raise that puts him all in even against a player that is consistently bluffing. Of course, you're going to need a significant chip advantage to really make that play worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The beauty of small ball is that it is the optimum approach, which means that a counter strategy that would defeat it simply doesn't exist. The large pre-flop re-raises, while they'll often work, force you to over bet hands and make yourself vulnerable when the small baller has a hand, or when someone else has one. You can't beat this strategy, you can only try to contain it. Re-raising in position against a small baller is a worse play than smooth calling. Playing small ball effectively depends on position to work for the most part. If you call them to death, and then play flops with them, essentially playing small ball as well, that is your best course of action. Many people try moving in often on a small baller, but a patient small baller will wait these types of players out and either bust them, or the pre-flop raiser will run into hands behind him. Of all the strategies out there, playing small ball has the fewest options as far as a counter strategy that really works. I will provide counter strategies in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
spydrmyk 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The beauty of small ball is that it is the optimum approach, which means that a counter strategy that would defeat it simply doesn't exist. The large pre-flop re-raises, while they'll often work, force you to over bet hands and make yourself vulnerable when the small baller has a hand, or when someone else has one. You can't beat this strategy, you can only try to contain it. Re-raising in position against a small baller is a worse play than smooth calling. Playing small ball effectively depends on position to work for the most part. If you call them to death, and then play flops with them, essentially playing small ball as well, that is your best course of action. Many people try moving in often on a small baller, but a patient small baller will wait these types of players out and either bust them, or the pre-flop raiser will run into hands behind him. Of all the strategies out there, playing small ball has the fewest options as far as a counter strategy that really works. I will provide counter strategies in my book.DN, do you feel this strategy works best in tournament play or cash games? Or do you fel it works well equally?...please explain. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 DN, do you feel this strategy works best in tournament play or cash games? Or do you fel it works well equally?...please explain. Slightly better suited for tournament play, but the approach works in no limit hold'em, PERIOD. Unless of course, you are playing LATE in a tournament with shorter stacks, or a tounament with little play. Link to post Share on other sites
Borneman97 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 daniel, do you think you could do a quick overview of the small ball approach to hold em. anytime is appreciated.thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Forget the quick overview, can you write a book about it that we can all read and learn from??? Link to post Share on other sites
dkelloway 0 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I heard Gavin Smith say that to counter his smallball strategy you have to vary your continuation bet amounts and frequencies, and you must be able to check a good hand to the smallballer who has position on you, then you throw in a raise or call depending on the strength of your hand, board texture, read..etc Link to post Share on other sites
dapokerbum 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 So Small Ball is essentially calling with position rather than raising to isolate. Or is it putting in a 2x raise rather than a 5x raise with a hand like AA-QQ, then outplaying someone on the flop. Just need to clarify as it seems to work very good for DN in tourneys and cash games alike.Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
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