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Quiz Question #24


Q-3 Off Suit  

795 members have voted

  1. 1. What is the Best Play?

    • Fold
      350
    • Call
      23
    • Raise to 5,500
      51
    • Raise to 10,000
      305
    • Go All in
      66


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Fold or Raise to 10k. Both work. I would raise. Showing Q-3os would destroy your table image which isn't bad because switching gears to loose aggressive from tight passive would confuse players and players with no reads usally either fold big hands or call all the way with medium ones. Thats a good reason to raise.Folding is a good idea too.....Q-3 is a garbage hand that is dominated by many many many hands that anyones could be raising.

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Your table image isn't going to be ruined cos its unlikely that people will see your hand. A good number of times this will work and your opponents will both fold. There's no point having an image if you aren't going to use it. If we are facing a solid hand, we might face a call, but we'll still have position. If we are facing a monster (which are reads say is unlikely), we will know about it. Either they will re-raise (in which case we will be in a good position to fold) or we will again have position on the flop.Raise 10K. A fold is a legitimate move as well, but you can't let your stack erode. Although you are in a comfortable chip position, you should be playing to win.

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This is sorta complex in my opinion.The first player may well be trying to steal the blinds. Maybe.But in order for the second person to just call I think he's got a big big hand here.This is why.He may not be worried about the first guy, but he has to worry about the action behind him, clearly he is not. I don't care what this guys image is. If he wanted to take this pot down he would make a bigger raise here to discourage the blinds from calling him down. I know you have to have a bigger hand to call than to raise so ....My range on this guy would be something like this. Either he's got a big pair. AA, KK, QQ, or a big suited AKs AQs. The reason I don't think he has a limp hand like 8-7s is because he's not likely to have many opponates in the hand and he doesn't stand to make much if he flops a straight or the like. If two more people were in the hand I would give more credit for that type of holding. Since I put him on this range of hands, and there are still more people to act behind me I'm folding here. Especially since Q-3 is definately not the hand I wanna go to battle with here. An overcall is all but suicidal here. And another thing to consider is if you wanna double up two short stacks with this sort of hand. Why give more chips to two small stacks? I want these two small stacks to fight it out and maybe one will knock the other out. You're up another position and even if one doubles up he's still well behind your stack, he still has to respect you.I fold.Thoughts?

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This hand kind of reminds me of Dan Harrington's 2004 WSOP squeeze play. We all know how tight he is. He noticed Arieh raising from every position with marginal starting hands. Raymer calls with A2 knowing this. So, dan took his 62 and reraised them big... and they both folded. So, if you're projecting that type of image I think it's ok to raise to $10,000 here since it will be respected and you know that the caller doesn't need a great hand to call his raise.Also, your hand is garbage, if you had something like 87s where you would like to see a flop with I would prob just call, but since your hand is so bad, you're going to make this play with lesser hands than you're going to call with.

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  • 5 weeks later...

You can't call. Blinds are so small compared to your stack that you should play tight and everyone has seen that you do so. It's between folding and raising to 10k. Folding would risk you nothing and it just proofs even more that you are playing very tight when someone else sees that you could have squeezed them out of the pot but you didn't. That would give you leverage to make even a better bluff later on against someone you would want to take chips away from. Raising to 10k is always +EV and would show others that you are capable of doing so. Also helps you to get chips later when you do everything exactly like you did with that Q3 when you hit a monster. Someone raises and other player lims in and now you make the same move with AA. Someone in the pot who saw you make the move last time hears a bling in his head and reraises you and you have set you up for winning a huge pot or even bust someone out of the tournament.You just need to go with your feeling. If you feel even a little bit afraid that you are going to get called, then fold. It helps you later on. Don't go gambling if you are not sure. If you know they will fold, go for it, as I said, it's +EV.Btw. I'm not a pro. Just a man who thinks a lot and does the exact opposite just to see that I should have done exactly what I thought in the first place. It's just in my nature :club:

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  • 2 months later...

I will start by saying that I have not yet viewed the answer to this question, but I do see that it has been posted, so even with the risk of sounding like a donkey, I will give my two cents. I assume that because you added the point about you having a tight table image and a read that neither of the two players in the pot have a strong hand, your gut is telling you to make some kind of SICK play, which I am ok with. The question now becomes - How SICK of a bet? Some would argue that you should make a raise to between 8 and 12k, but I think this is the worst thing you could do... If you were right, and the preflop raiser was weak, that doesn't mean that he isn't still desperate to accumulate chips! With a raise like this, it looks like you are raising just enough to fold to another re-raise (which you are). So... Raise enough to show that you wont fold to a raise (which you won't). You can raise to 27-30k, and if the preflop raiser moves in, it's an insta-call, if the preflop raiser folds and the initial caller moves in, it's an insta-call. This play provides equity in a few different ways:1. If both players fold, you win a sizeable pot with a weak hand.2. If one player moves in and you call and lose - Good news - you only lost <20% of your stack, and "Tis Mearly a Flesh Wound!"3. If both players move in, you can call and bust two for only 10k for a 100k+ pot4. If you turn your cards over, the table will see that you have switched gears, and the next time you have a monster, it will be easier to be paid off!I am interested to hear what you think!

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Having shown serious hands that you reraised with preflop, your image must be pretty tight. A 10,000 bet is close to a third of their stacks and they cannot hurt you. The downside of this is that the table will tighten up since players will (correctly) realize that they need a better hand to enter a pot in the future. You will pick up the pot this time but the chances that someone will slowplay a monster or you will be called next time goes up because players will be entering with serous, defendable hands. That said, a tighter table also means you can shift to smaller raises and pick up blinds cheaper. If the 10,000 bet is the wrong answer, I will be fascinated to hear the rationale for a different course of play.

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  • 5 months later...
Your cards don't matter because they are Q3. The only time you want to see a flop with Q3 is when you have psychic knowledge that the flop is coming 333 or when you are playing limit and trying to cultivate a loose table image. And you can recast the problem all you want, but you were given reads in the problem, if you never going to play your read, play checkers. You don't have 76s or AA, you have a crappy unplayable pair of hole cards. So you play the players or you fold. It takes no imagination to fold Q3 and it is never a bad play, but this is the perfect set up for a squeeze play. Weak raise, Weak call, two stacks that can't afford to tangle with you, you have a tight image, the only reason not to try and pick them off is to protect your image. (or you don't trust your reads, now I may not trust my reads, I clearly don't trust your reads, but this is Daniel F*&$!@# Negreanu making the read, I'm gonna go with it.) It is a low risk play to pick up $6,500 and make everyone at the table a little more nervous of the big stack.
There is no real reason to be involved in this hand even if you think you have a good read, i would rather let the short stacks fight it out. To win tourneys you have to play basic solid poker and raise/calling with queen 3 doesnt make sense at all. Come on that question is an easy one for any pro.
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  • 1 month later...

I'm almost completly certain that the best play in this postition would be a big bet of 10,000. I can afford a raise like this and it would be extemely difficult for the other two players to make the call, as I have turned over KK and AA earlier in the day and a call off that size would get them pot committed pre flop on the short stack. If they call and I miss the flop completely, I mite try a continuation bet, but if they re-raise, I'll lay down my Queen 3. However, if I hit the flop , I would probably check raise either one or both off them all-in. But that's just me, I could be wrong.:club::D

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Since you established a tight image throughout the game,you can seriously consider Raising to 10K.If they're good players, they would have picked up the fact that you only raise with monsterhandsAA and KK's .. So why would they think now, you have something else.If your 10K raise get's called by one of them, you know you're ****ed,and fold.by Raising you think outside the box that they put you in, and be a bigger surprise.You don't give away anything and, still get the chips.So I say.. Raise to 10K.

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  • 2 weeks later...

WOW,.. WOW,.. WOW,.. Why get involved in this in the first place? Man,.. you're sitting on a decent stack and you're going to get yourself involved with this garbage? Pleazzzz come and meet me on my table,.. I can always use some 'free chips'. I would think you'll be getting PLENTY of better oppurtunities than this for making a steal. Who cares if you've got 'good position' with Q-3o,.. if you even do spike the Queen on the flop you're giving yourself a GREAT chance to lose ALOT of chips to gain what in the beginning??? Damn,.. way better moves to be making than this unecessary one.Say you get a call or worse, a push,.. then what??? You gonna lay down the hand and potentially lose your image then,.. lose the oppurtunity to make a steal when you've got at least something to fall back on if you need to play it out. This is just out and out garbage. I'm amazed at the stuff I'm reading here,.. seriously!!! what are your ROI's lookin' like right now? How's your ITM?? Maybe a good chance to look at your game and make some drastic adjustments to it.GL I say,... you're gonna need it. I'll keep trying to rely on skill for now, thanks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

why get involved? ur chip leader dont risk your stack on a crap hand! you have no reason nor any money invested in the pot! lay it down and be patient

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  • 2 weeks later...

If the reading of Daniel is on the spot, re-raising could be a move. Very risky though since the original raiser could be desparate enough to go all in for a race.My reading is not as good as Daniels so I would pick a better hand to play with.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello everyone....this is my first post!Daniel has given you all the information you need to know to make the correct decision here....First....Since you are familiar with the fellow sitting in position before the button who called the 2200....you know that he does not have a strong hand....a large bet by you will scare him away....Second....Because you have raised twice pre flop earlier in the game and showed AA and KK both times....you should take advantage of this by putting up a sizeable bet that will not only scare away the fellow in positon before the button....but it will lead the rest of the players to believe that you are doing it AGAIN....raising pre flop with a monster hand....To raise only to 5500 would be a mistake because it is too easy for the other chip leaders to make that call and it will NOT give you the information you are looking for....you need to find out just how strong your opponents hands are by raising 4 to 5 times the pot....If you get re-raised....then it is time to fold the gay waiter....(Queen with a tray)If you get called....then you better get a damn good looking flop....or just rely on your experience and ability to read the players at the table to decide how to procede....

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  • 4 weeks later...

ok i read like the first 5 of these and everyone is saying fold or reraise to 10k. i agree with it being a fold or raise situation in which i think it is a fold spot cause it just isnt worth it unless you're image is so tight that when you do come in with hand there is no way you are getting action which is hardly ever the case. however, why 10k if pot is 6500 and the raise is 2200 i think 8700 gets the same respect as 10k and it saves you some chips if you are reraised. doesn't sound like alot when you have 220k but it could add up if you make a few of these plays that backfire. it also makes it easier to get away from if the shorter stack pushes. 10k looks like a bully raise to me and if i am the button i would be pushing a very wide range over that bet.

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  • 2 weeks later...

While I think the optimal play is to raise to 10K, my own style advocates a fold most of the time. I think the timing is pretty good here for thie re-raise to 10K, however.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would stick with your current image as a tight player, especially if both players are mid range stacks and your a chip leader. Few players would risk more money unless they have a premium hand from a raise of 10K. If you fold, it does nothing, you stay stagnant, and one of these players might get stronger in the long run. I would take a risk and raise it to 10K, simply for the fact that both players will likely fold their hands because of more psychological reasons; your a chip leader, you can afford an all in call, and you don't play marginal hands often.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I answer to this sceario I think fold is the option. Why get involved when your chip leader in a late position. You dont need to try a risky bluff here especially since they are likely to call the bluff anyway. *waits fo rnext hand

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