Ban Cheats?

[Spademan 94]

There no evidence that he benefited from his multiaccounting in major tournaments, yet he continues to be bashed on all forums as the antichrist. Please.

Of course.I mean, just because he was playing 6 or more accounts in huge tournaments, you know, 5 extra accounts that knocked people out, people who payed to play and may have gone on to win large sums of money had they not taken a beat, or lost a race to one of five illegal cheating ass accounts, just because he may *cough* *cough*, may have chip dumped, squeeze played, any number of different ways you can give yourself a huge advantage, just because he may have done something like that is no reason to bash the guy.I mean, gosh, just because a guy gets caught cheating, as long as you don't have a spread-sheet showing just how much he may have won using his cheating ass ways then you don't know how much he won. So you should just let him be.Cheating people out of money is ok after a little while.Shut the fuck up.

[blakheart 3]

Of course.I mean, just because he was playing 6 or more accounts in huge tournaments, you know, 5 extra accounts that knocked people out, people who payed to play and may have gone on to win large sums of money had they not taken a beat, or lost a race to one of five illegal cheating ass accounts, just because he may *cough* *cough*, may have chip dumped, squeeze played, any number of different ways you can give yourself a huge advantage, just because he may have done something like that is no reason to bash the guy.I mean, gosh, just because a guy gets caught cheating, as long as you don't have a spread-sheet showing just how much he may have won using his cheating ass ways then you don't know how much he won. So you should just let him be.Cheating people out of money is ok after a little while.Shut the fuck up.

Ok- so since a 20 year kid screwed up you want ot ban him for life?? Look- he clearly was wrong. But isn't $100k and sitting out of poker for half a year sufficient? Especially if there is no evidence he chip dumped, executed squeeze plays or any of those other allegations. His performance at the 5 diamond verifies that the kid knows how to play tournament poker at a high level. He is going to carry this stigma for a long time. But to ban him from live poker because he cheated in an online tournament is crazy. Should you ban Grinder for five years? What about the other online pros who were never caught multi accounting? I am not going to defend him but to completely right this guy off forever is harsh.

[Spademan 94]

Ok- so since a 20 year kid screwed up you want ot ban him for life?? Should you ban Grinder for five years? What about the other online pros who were never caught multi accounting?

Yes.Yes.Yes.If I could.I don't like cheaters, maybe it's just me.Remember, even *if*, and oh lord it's a joke that someone could think people who would put 6 accounts in one tournament aren't going to take advantage of having two of them at the same table... but even if he didn't cheat harder(?) when they showed up together, he still was knocking people out of the tournament with 5 EXTRA ACCOUNTS. People who were playing by the rules, with one account, one shot at the prize, people who otherwise may have gone deep. I can't even argue this it is so self-evident.

[Tiltinagain 973]

Yes.Yes.Yes.If I could.I don't like cheaters, maybe it's just me.Remember, even *if*, and oh lord it's a joke that someone could think people who would put 6 accounts in one tournament aren't going to take advantage of having two of them at the same table... but even if he didn't cheat harder(?) when they showed up together, he still was knocking people out of the tournament with 5 EXTRA ACCOUNTS. People who were playing by the rules, with one account, one shot at the prize, people who otherwise may have gone deep. I can't even argue this it is so self-evident.

Agreed.This was intended to be a more general question rather than turning into a ZJ bashing thread...lord knows we have had more than enough of those...

[FourFlusher 0]

What are we supposed to think about Brunson, Preston and Roberts traveling in the same car, and playing out of the same bankroll for weeks at a time in games that Brunson said cheating was not only common, but expected?They would ride for six hours to get to a game where they expected to be cheated, lived out of the same roll, and didn't cheat back? Even a little?I'm not saying Doyle, Sailor or Slim were cheats...I have no reason to, and, I want to go to heaven so I don't dis God.I do think there has been a lot of cheating going on over the years.If cheating was fairly and accurately exposed, and penalized by bans, I think the big games would be a lot smaller.Edit: I only picked Brunson, Roberts and Preston because the facts and players are well known, not because I'm accusing them of anything. They are only three of thousands of stories.

[grocery_mony 8]

intresting thread sorta related to this on 2+2.http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...e=0&fpart=4that stuff abot Tuan Le and Hassan Habib is the type of **** thats gotta be taken out of the game

[canadarules 0]

whens the last time PGordan made a final table. hes just jealous and wants to stir s.hit up

[Spademan 94]

whens the last time PGordan made a final table. hes just jealous and wants to stir s.hit up

Way to neglect the argument and put forth fallacy.You suck at logic.

[Tiltinagain 973]

whens the last time PGordan made a final table. hes just jealous and wants to stir s.hit up

Congratulations on posting the most irrelevent reply in this thread! While Phil is somewhat of a poker snob imo, harsh penalties for those caught cheating, whether multi-accounting, chip dumping, colluding....whatever....should be imposed.The best way to do that is to hit 'em where it hurts...their wallet. The possibility of being banned for 3 - 5 years would be pretty good incentive to play straight I think.

[rogerwilco 0]

With poker trying to get corporate sponsership, there is no room for cheating. Online or Live. A 5 year ban might be too short. Too bad there is no governing body for poker to enforce that.

I believe the WSOP, WPT and the big casino companies could easily work out a rule about that if they wanted to.

[mtdesmoines 3]

5- years is not too long a time in prison for a cheating, thieving *******. I hate cheats as much as everyone else does but I say a few private moments with a new boyfriend during a 5-10 stint would teach the person a lesson

FYP --- all better now.

[qyayqi 11]

if you cheat at blackjack then you're banned across the country. if you cheat at poker then nothing. the casinos look after their own financial interests and ignore those of the players. but they already have a system in place for blacklisting players in one game; they could easily expand it to poker.

[Eric Smith 0]

Well how are these games being cheated? I've heard about being able to disguise your hand with team play in limit hold'em. But it seemspointless to ban someone from big buy-in events if they are cheating a 5/10 game.

[Valuecall 0]

Phil Gordon said that he believes that anyone proven to have cheated, online or live, should receivea 5 year ban from all WSOP, WPT and other large TV tournaments in order to protect the game.

Interesting. While I agree with Phil Gordon in principle, especially given the couple highly publicized (in forums) issues with the multi-account PokerStars guy -- it's the "proven" part that would be a problem. Poker sites don't need to worry about proving anything -- it's their site with their own T&Cs. If they want to kick you off because they don't like your avatar they can. So if they want to call you a cheat without a thorough investigation by one of their "support staff," they can.What if an online player fudges around so that he can open a rakeback account at an online site, even though he already had an account previously. Then the poker site says "you violated our T&Cs, cheater!" So does that guy get banned?How about the poker guy who lets another player take over part of his multi-table online tournament because he has to pick up his kid from school, and then writes about it in his blog? This was pretty common stuff at least a couple years ago. That's clearly improper -- does that player get banned?Another player settles a debt by getting a peer-to-peer transfer on a poker site from his debtor. Turns out the debtor is also a cheater/colluder from other games on the site, so the guy receiving the original transfer gets kicked off the site as well.---The additional problem, is the lack of a central poker organization that would maintain such rules and investigate further. It would take an independent org to manage this blacklist, and I don't think that would be good for poker. Once a governing body is in place with power, none of this will be limited to banning a couple people who were proven cheats at the most repubtable online site. Additionally, you hear tales of known, NAME pros shorting tournament pots. There was one post on 2+2 in the past week with a pot-short that was not enforced by the tournament staff because "once the stack is pushed to you, the settlement is over." Do you really think some panel of experts is going to boot a couple "name pros" because of this, when they're acquainted with him? I doubt it. I like Phil Gordon's sense of things and his thoughts are always valuable. This is one of those things that in practice will be hardly more effective than an informal blacklist where Harrah's says "hey, we don't want you and its our property and we can ask you to leave if we want."

[CaneBrain 95]

Loss of face, loss of 100K is punishment enough. I love all the perfect people on this forum. How about anyone who goes to jail has to sit out 3 years. Lets get Matusow off the tourney circuit.Jeez, a 20 year old kid made a horrible choice and you guys want to ban him for 5 years? Phil Gordon is a stick in the mud. I am glad most of you are not in charge of the minimum sentencing laws in this country.

[Lynbrook 0]

Loss of face, loss of 100K is punishment enough. I love all the perfect people on this forum. How about anyone who goes to jail has to sit out 3 years. Lets get Matusow off the tourney circuit.Jeez, a 20 year old kid made a horrible choice and you guys want to ban him for 5 years? Phil Gordon is a stick in the mud. I am glad most of you are not in charge of the minimum sentencing laws in this country.

What did the 20 year old do? I think a one year ban is long enough, but there's also degree's of cheating. I mean when I get logged off I call my friend to log on and play for me. Technically that's cheating, but who wouldn't do that? Obviously Gordon isn't talking about that, but there is a line, and who would draw it?

[TylerSalzman 0]

I caught a guy cheating in my home game once. I kicked him out forever, which was a really hard decision since he was a friend and friends with everyone else as well. But man.. what kind of a guy cheats his friends? I think there will always be people who try to cheat, just because some people really suck at the game and are looking for any advantage possible, but people who do get caught should be punished. It's so rare that people actually get caught, and it's important to let people know that it's not okay.If you do nothing to stop cheats, then the game becomes about who is the best cheater, not who is the best poker player

[irishguy 14]

Once you put a governing body in place to enforce "laws" of the game such as cheating where does policing stop? If we are to believe conduct like cheating deserves a five year ban. Then what kind of penalties eventually come up concerning conduct like that of Tong G or Molina? And again where do we draw the line. In my opinion some of the televised bad behaviour is damn near as negative for the game as cheating is.

[Tiltinagain 973]

Loss of face, loss of 100K is punishment enough. I love all the perfect people on this forum. How about anyone who goes to jail has to sit out 3 years. Lets get Matusow off the tourney circuit.Jeez, a 20 year old kid made a horrible choice and you guys want to ban him for 5 years? Phil Gordon is a stick in the mud. I am glad most of you are not in charge of the minimum sentencing laws in this country.

Poker is no longer a game played only in the back room of bars, basements of old buildings and at houses in the middle of nowhere with guys on the roofs with rifles to protect the players from being robbed.The game has received worldwide recognition, and it's players fame and fortune, and is seen by most as a game of skill and respectability rather than the dark, seedy playground of crooks and cheats that was once it's reputation.To not have some sort of governing body set up to enforce clearly defined rules and code of conduct for it's players would be putting all of this at risk. Anything that provides the opportunity for making huge amounts of money quickly attracts people looking take advantage of any opportunity to line their pockets with cash. Just look in the inbox of your e-mail account and the number of scams that are out there.I can't imagine why the professional players in the game wouldn't want to protect their livelyhood by forming some sort of association for this purpose.Every major, and most minor, sports, leagues, etc... require their participants to become members of their association to participate in their events. Signing up for membership and paying your annual dues requires you to conduct yourself within the best interests of the game as defined in the membership agreement with clearly expressed penalties for your first, second, third etc... violation.I would be very interested to hear DN's opinion, as well as the big time players at FCP, of this idea.

[bobonic 0]

Is there a big difference between multi accounting and Steaking multiple players in a live event????

[Spademan 94]

Is there a big difference between multi accounting and Steaking multiple players in a live event????

Steaking, capitalized and meaty as you've made it, is a big difference, yes.

[mentallyretardedpear 0]

He did not confess, he was caught then admitted to doing what he was accused of.Was he truly sorry he did it, or just sorry he got caught and outed to the online community?And was the "rare occurance" people doing what he did or getting caught?

I have a strange feeling this wont be the only time justin is "outed"...ZeeHomo

[Tiltinagain 973]

Is there a big difference between multi accounting and Steaking multiple players in a live event????

Clearly.If you're in an online tournament with 5 accounts, YOU control all 5 accounts and can chip dump to yourselfdepending on which account is doing better.Staking multiple players, who each play the tourney independantly (in most cases anyway) is totally different.Obviously if a backer is found to have all his horses working together to get 1 of them deeper into the tournamentthen the backer, and all the involved players, should receive the same ban.

[theresa113 0]

Steaking, capitalized and meaty as you've made it, is a big difference, yes.

[bobonic 0]

ummmmm steak