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Is Homosexuality Really A Sin?


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It's not about fear. It's about what I believe should be promoted to my girl and what shouldn't be. I will tell you how afraid I am- nada. I was raised christian, new hundreds of kids nationwide, all in the same christian organization, many of whom I still have contact with today. Not one is gay, or lesbian. Our methods of rasing our children works just fine. We churn out straight kids left and right.
please tell me that you were being funny or sarcastic with this comment.If you believe Christian families haven't raised some gays, pedophiles, sluts, porn stars, murderers, hardened criminals or anything else that would be considered bad by a "good christian family", you've lost your mind and I feel sorry for you and your kids.
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MELLO, BUFFALO. CHANDLER, BUFFALO. KENYON MARTIN, BUFFALO. JR SMITH, BUFFALO. PIGIONNI, HE'LL BUFFALO YOUR FUKEN COOKIES

I'm more of an Otter man myself, F.

No you go right ahead insinuating gays are abominations and that your family needs protection from them. Or that a picture of 2 men holding hands is 'sneaky' way of getting evil into your life.Not a homophobe or a biggot at all
That's not insinuating. I flat out said it. Notice, you're the only one calling me a homphobe and a biggot. The act of homsexuality is an abomination. Homosexuality is acceptable in mainstream media and hollywood, therefore it's not a stretch to think that it could be snuck into the school system. Those aren't the values I want taught to my daughter. Why is that so hard to get?
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please tell me that you were being funny or sarcastic with this comment.If you believe Christian families haven't raised some gays, pedophiles, sluts, porn stars, murderers, hardened criminals or anything else that would be considered bad by a "good christian family", you've lost your mind and I feel sorry for you and your kids.
I was being sarcastic. The thought of churning out starights made me laugh, so I typed it. Look, the point was that I teach the values I want to my child, and I do my damndest that to make sure others don't teach her the opposite- especially at a young, impressionable age. I don't think that makes me a bad person, or a homophobe, or a biggot, it makes me a parent whp gives a ****. Which, incidentally, if you look at around at kids these days is sorely lacking in society in general.
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Canada, if you're honest with yourself, Lois's feelings have nothing to do with hatred or maliciousness...he sees the issue as very black and white, and really isn't a bigot (one g, btw.)

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Canada, if you're honest with yourself, Lois's feelings have nothing to do with hatred or maliciousness...he sees the issue as very black and white, and really isn't a bigot (one g, btw.)
Dictionary time:Webster's Medical DictionaryMain Entry: ho·mo·pho·biaPronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&Function: noun: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals —If you call something or someone an abomination...a·bom·i·na·tion –noun 1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred. 2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination. 3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination. Do I have to make it any f#cking clearer? He is homophobic.It might be a little hard sitting there as a straight and probably white male never having faced discrimination in your life, but wake-the-f#ck-up.How would you feel if a picture of you holding the hand of a person you love was considered dangerous to children? That they shouldn't be 'exposed' to it? How loved and valued would you feel if your expression of that love was termed an abomination?It's OK for him to use 'abomination' because it's in the Bible, but I can't define him as a homophobe despite the dictionary definition being crystal clear? You really need to take a good long look at your double standards.People kill themselves based on the opinions of idiots like him. What bit do you think is ok?
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Canada, if you're honest with yourself, Lois's feelings have nothing to do with hatred or maliciousness...he sees the issue as very black and white, and really isn't a bigot (one g, btw.)
christian fundamentalists are bigots by definition
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Dictionary time:People kill themselves based on the opinions of idiots like him. What bit do you think is ok?
People kill themselves because they're suicidal. It's no one's fault but their own, unfortunately for people like you who like to displace blame. Lois has a different worldview than you. You think Christianity is some sort of delusion or bias, fine. Lois thinks it's the way it is. To my knowledge, he has never been against homosexual acts because he just feels like it. He's not a bigot.
It might be a little hard sitting there as a straight and probably white male never having faced discrimination in your life, but wake-the-f#ck-up.
So.We've gone from debate to getting personal.Let me set you straight here.I am the most discriminated-against type in the United States today. I am made fun of by numerous sitcoms on TV as being out-of-touch, unhip and ignorant. I start on the lowest rung of the ladder in job applicant pools. I am stereotyped against by the media (and thus by the non-critical-thinking public) for my faith, not because of the faith, but because I am white, male, and have my faith. Let me tell you how it feels to be discriminated against.I don't really want to do my current job forever. I've been job hunting seriously for a few months now. Looking for more money and some fullfillment. I really want to serve the general public, in an economic development role if possible. I am wired to lead and serve others.So let me tell you how it feels when I apply for a position, my resume is sharp, my cover letter is crisp & concise, and my qualifications are apparent, and I receive an e-mail that goes something like this:Dear xxx,Thank you for submitting your resume. Your qualifications are consistent with the quality of applicant we are seeking for this position. If you would, please return the following brief survey promptly in order to further assist us in this search. Your participation is voluntary but would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, xxxx Co.QUESTION 1:You are:A. Male (skull and crossbones)B. Female (stars, $$$ symbols)QUESTION 2:You are best described as:A. White (non-hispanic, this includes persons of Middle-Eastern descent) (skull & crossbones reappear)B. Asian (good luck with that one, you're not really a minority, are you?)C. HispanicD. African-AmericanE. American IndianF. Pacific IslanderIt feels shi.tty. Go to hell, Canada.
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Look, the point was that I teach the values I want to my child, and I do my damndest that to make sure others don't teach her the opposite- especially at a young, impressionable age. I don't think that makes me a bad person, or a homophobe, or a biggot, it makes me a parent whp gives a ****. Which, incidentally, if you look at around at kids these days is sorely lacking in society in general.
I agree. Every parent should strive to do this same thing, pass along their morals and values to their child without any outside negative influences. Not disagreeing on that one bit. Nobody has an issue with that. The issue begins when you (not you personally, but sort of) think that your morals and values are better than other peoples who aren't religious or have a different religion. Also, you think your morals and values should match up with the letter of the law of this country, I.E. gay marriage, etc.I have plenty of things that I believe in, but the difference between me and you is I don't expect you to live like I do or follow my lead. You do.(civil tone if it didn't come off that way. After all, we both dislike Dane Cook)
Canada, if you're honest with yourself, Lois's feelings have nothing to do with hatred or maliciousness...he sees the issue as very black and white, and really isn't a bigot (one g, btw.)
well, by definition, he is a bigot against one group of people, that we know about. Also, a page or two back LMD made a silly example of a gay guy describing a blow job from another gay guy and said he had to give that guy a talking to. Very poor example. I wouldn't want that unprovoked conversation to happen to me or my date at my dinner table regardless of sexual orientation of the participants. Its just in poor taste, regardless of the participants were gay or not.Also, what with all the "protect my family" references. That seems a bit over the top to me. Your wife is a grown woman (hopefully), why the need to "protect" her so much. Is she helpless and has no mind of her own? I know woman were looked upon as a lesser class of people on the bible at one point, but does that still exist in your world? (directed at LMD, but any Christian can answer)I'm not starting stuff, I'm just generally curious.I'm not trying to change my mind or anyone elses, I'm just curious of the Christian thought process sometimes.
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I am the most discriminated-against type in the United States today. I am made fun of by numerous sitcoms on TV as being out-of-touch, unhip and ignorant. I start on the lowest rung of the ladder in job applicant pools. I am stereotyped against by the media (and thus by the non-critical-thinking public) for my faith, not because of the faith, but because I am white, male, and have my faith. Let me tell you how it feels to be discriminated against.I don't really want to do my current job forever. I've been job hunting seriously for a few months now. Looking for more money and some fullfillment. I really want to serve the general public, in an economic development role if possible. I am wired to lead and serve others.So let me tell you how it feels when I apply for a position, my resume is sharp, my cover letter is crisp & concise, and my qualifications are apparent, and I receive an e-mail that goes something like this:Dear xxx,Thank you for submitting your resume. Your qualifications are consistent with the quality of applicant we are seeking for this position. If you would, please return the following brief survey promptly in order to further assist us in this search. Your participation is voluntary but would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, xxxx Co.QUESTION 1:You are:A. Male (skull and crossbones)B. Female (stars, $$$ symbols)QUESTION 2:You are best described as:A. White (non-hispanic, this includes persons of Middle-Eastern descent) (skull & crossbones reappear)B. Asian (good luck with that one, you're not really a minority, are you?)C. HispanicD. African-AmericanE. American IndianF. Pacific IslanderIt feels shi.tty.
please. This is a ridiculous statement. Unless you are applying as a Hooters waitress or Power forward in the NBA, being a white male still reigns supreme.
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People kill themselves because they're suicidal. It's no one's fault but their own, unfortunately for people like you who like to displace blame. Lois has a different worldview than you. You think Christianity is some sort of delusion or bias, fine. Lois thinks it's the way it is. To my knowledge, he has never been against homosexual acts because he just feels like it. He's not a bigot.
Give me a break. Some Christians believe homosexuality is fine, others don't. Therefore his choice on the matter is a personal one. If he states that it is an abomination that is his opinion. Just like it your opinion that Genesis is obviously not literal.He doesn't get to hide behind his religion.He is a homophobic prick. End of story.
So.We've gone from debate to getting personal.Let me set you straight here.I am the most discriminated-against type in the United States today. I am made fun of by numerous sitcoms on TV as being out-of-touch, unhip and ignorant. I start on the lowest rung of the ladder in job applicant pools. I am stereotyped against by the media (and thus by the non-critical-thinking public) for my faith, not because of the faith, but because I am white, male, and have my faith. Let me tell you how it feels to be discriminated against.I don't really want to do my current job forever. I've been job hunting seriously for a few months now. Looking for more money and some fullfillment. I really want to serve the general public, in an economic development role if possible. I am wired to lead and serve others.So let me tell you how it feels when I apply for a position, my resume is sharp, my cover letter is crisp & concise, and my qualifications are apparent, and I receive an e-mail that goes something like this:Dear xxx,Thank you for submitting your resume. Your qualifications are consistent with the quality of applicant we are seeking for this position. If you would, please return the following brief survey promptly in order to further assist us in this search. Your participation is voluntary but would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, xxxx Co.QUESTION 1:You are:A. Male (skull and crossbones)B. Female (stars, $$$ symbols)QUESTION 2:You are best described as:A. White (non-hispanic, this includes persons of Middle-Eastern descent) (skull & crossbones reappear)B. Asian (good luck with that one, you're not really a minority, are you?)C. HispanicD. African-AmericanE. American IndianF. Pacific IslanderIt feels shi.tty. Go to hell, Canada.
Boo f#cking hoo.Grow up baby. I am of the same demographics as you are, so how can it be personal?Perhaps you may have wanted to dodge the point that you stuck up for LMD because he is a fellow Christian or you're just too little to admit you were clearly wrong.Be a man and show some backbone and who knows the job offers might just follow. Continue to stick your head in the sand and that big gay thing we call life is going to continue to do you in the bum
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Boo f#cking hoo.Grow up baby. I am of the same demographics as you are, so how can it be personal?Perhaps you may have wanted to dodge the point that you stuck up for LMD because he is a fellow Christian or you're just too little to admit you were clearly wrong.Be a man and show some backbone and who knows the job offers might just follow. Continue to stick your head in the sand and that big gay thing we call life is going to continue to do you in the bum
You're the racist and bigot. You don't live in the same country as I do, so we're really not alike at all. I'm glad your society is still in our 1960's, where you have a major population feeling disaffected, ignored, and they want to blow shyt up because of it (although the last wasn't really the case here). You can get personal and offensive all you want as.shole, but your maliscious bias have clearly destroyed any moral or ethical authority that you had previously disguised yourself in. I don't need your shi.tty placating advice to find what I want to do, especially when your purpose in life is apparently to attack Christianity in a goddam poker forum. I'm sure your epitaph will be a moving one.
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please. This is a ridiculous statement. Unless you are applying as a Hooters waitress or Power forward in the NBA, being a white male still reigns supreme.
Ron, are you being reasonable? You could probably put "RICH" in front of "white" in your comment and have it be much more accurate, but certainly not in any other scenario.
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I will concede the the dollar reigns supreme, but please don't cry a river about being a white male. We are still ahead of most.
What do you mean by "still ahead of most?" "Our" economic average is better than "their" economic average? True or not, can you give me a population with more systematic discrimination than I came up with for the av. white guy?
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Loismustdie said:
I was being sarcastic. The thought of churning out starights made me laugh, so I typed it. Look, the point was that I teach the values I want to my child, and I do my damndest that to make sure others don't teach her the opposite- especially at a young, impressionable age. I don't think that makes me a bad person, or a homophobe, or a biggot, it makes me a parent whp gives a ****. Which, incidentally, if you look at around at kids these days is sorely lacking in society in general.

You do understand that no matter how good of a parent you are, you child still has free will, correct? There have been plenty of Christian families that have produced children that are the opposite. E.g. Katy Perry.

DonkSlayer said:
We've gone from debate to getting personal.

[monotone voice]wow. i am totally surprised that it was Canada who decided to be an ass. he usually is so respectful of others.[/monotone]

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What do you mean by "still ahead of most?" "Our" economic average is better than "their" economic average? True or not, can you give me a population with more systematic discrimination than I came up with for the av. white guy?
Do you really believe the average black guy has more opportunities provided to him in society than the average white guy?I'm not talking about govt sponsered programs, I'm talking about people that actually do the hiring, admitting, etc. Of course there isn't going to be an outright program that encourages the hiring of whites, but why do you think affirmitive action and programs like it were started? Because blacks weren't being hired or given the opportunities that whites were.While I agree that an occasional white has been passed up for either an equally or maybe lesser qualified minority or women, I certainly don't believe it to be the norm in society just yet.If you really believe that blacks in general are more hireable than you merely because you are in the majority and they are in the minority, than I have nothing else to offer you.
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If you really believe that blacks in general are more hireable than you merely because you are in the majority and they are in the minority, than I have nothing else to offer you.
I don't believe that. I do believe there are systems in place that favor them and disfavor me, based on race alone. cue MLKEDIT: I really don't want to talk about this anymore in this thread, because it's off subject.
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I agree. Every parent should strive to do this same thing, pass along their morals and values to their child without any outside negative influences. Not disagreeing on that one bit. Nobody has an issue with that. The issue begins when you (not you personally, but sort of) think that your morals and values are better than other peoples who aren't religious or have a different religion. Also, you think your morals and values should match up with the letter of the law of this country, I.E. gay marriage, etc.I have plenty of things that I believe in, but the difference between me and you is I don't expect you to live like I do or follow my lead. You do.(civil tone if it didn't come off that way. After all, we both dislike Dane Cook)well, by definition, he is a bigot against one group of people, that we know about. Also, a page or two back LMD made a silly example of a gay guy describing a blow job from another gay guy and said he had to give that guy a talking to. Very poor example. I wouldn't want that unprovoked conversation to happen to me or my date at my dinner table regardless of sexual orientation of the participants. Its just in poor taste, regardless of the participants were gay or not.Also, what with all the "protect my family" references. That seems a bit over the top to me. Your wife is a grown woman (hopefully), why the need to "protect" her so much. Is she helpless and has no mind of her own? I know woman were looked upon as a lesser class of people on the bible at one point, but does that still exist in your world? (directed at LMD, but any Christian can answer)I'm not starting stuff, I'm just generally curious.I'm not trying to change my mind or anyone elses, I'm just curious of the Christian thought process sometimes.
Women are definitely NOT looked down upon in the Bible, ever. In fact, the opposite is true. That being said, the customs of the entire world when Jesus was alive treated women as dirt. But it was society not the Bible. Just like the Bible addresses slaves and tells them how to behave, it also addresses women, men, children, etc... The Bible doesn't condemn slavery, it just speaks to the hearts of slaves. Same with women. Many modern women would think that the Bible looked down on women because the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands, but it's simply a structural issue with God... NOT a class issue.
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"a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"
I noticed that there was no refutation to this definition, or how it applies.I suppose it's hard to refute to something that so clear and present.
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Women are definitely NOT looked down upon in the Bible, ever. In fact, the opposite is true. That being said, the customs of the entire world when Jesus was alive treated women as dirt. But it was society not the Bible. Just like the Bible addresses slaves and tells them how to behave, it also addresses women, men, children, etc... The Bible doesn't condemn slavery, it just speaks to the hearts of slaves. Same with women. Many modern women would think that the Bible looked down on women because the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands, but it's simply a structural issue with God... NOT a class issue.
What a shock. Brvheart is wrong. Can't believe it. Who'd have thought such a thing?Burn The Daughter!"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)CommentA priest's daughter, if found to have lost her virginity without marriage, can receive the death penalty, but in the form of incineration.How many fundamentalist priests who so easily condemn others would carry out the burning of their daughters if they found them "whoring"?(See also Genesis 38:24)Cut Off Her Hand!"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)CommentA wife would naturally wish to come to the aid of her husband in any way she could if he desperately struggled with an opponent, but the Hebrew law specifically forbade a wife to help her husband in distress if that support consisted of her grabbing the enemy's genitals in an effort to stifle his onslaught. The penalty? Amputation of the hand that fondled the genitals!Only in an overly obsessive male dominated culture could men create such atrocious laws. As such, the penis ranked sacrosanct in the minds of men (as it still stands today). If a male lost his penis for any reason, he would lose the right to enter a congregation of God. (See Deuteronomy 23:1)Female Births Get Penalty"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)CommentA woman who gives birth to a child must undergo a purification ritual lest her "uncleanness" contaminate others. This not only entails her isolation, but also payments to priests for the ritual acts. Thus the male dominators had even made birth dirty.Notice here that if a woman bears a female child, her isolation must last twice as long as that if she gives birth to a male child!(See also Psalms 51:3-5) "The Bible and the church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of woman's emancipation." --Elizabeth Cady StantonFemale Inferiority"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)CommentThe Bible's decree of male supremacy has kept woman inferior to men for centuries. For the religious, it comes as a sad fact that a human must have a penis to receive any respect or power within the Church.All woman should realize that such phrases in the Bible has justified for many Christian men, not only their supremacy but a reason to sexually abuse women.(See also I Cor. 14:34-36, I Timothy 2:8-15, I Peter 3:1-7, Ephesians 5:22-24, Col. 3:18-19)Jesus Will Kill Children"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Revelation 2:22-23)CommentIf anyone thinks Jesus represents only a peaceful loving soul, then think again. For an act of adultery, Jesus would kill innocent children for the adultery of others; hardly fair justice, love, or the concern for human beings.Some apologists claim that "children" refers to the followers of a cult of Jezebel and not to children birthed from Jezebel. However, if this proved the case, the situation would appear even more horrific, for a cult of believers could number in the dozens, hundreds, thousands, or more. The deaths of these multitude of cult believers (which would include children within its membership) would only make the moralistic problem far more atrocious. "It's interesting to speculate how it developed that in two of the most anti-feminist institutions, the church and the law court, the men are wearing the dresses." --Flo KennedyKill The Witches!"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:18-20)CommentThese verses attest to the power of belief as they led to the slaughter of thousands of defenseless people throughout Europe and the rest of the world.Understand that these verses not only authorize the executions but they explicitly command them.Verse 18 justified the burning of women in Europe judged as witches. In early America, the Salem witch trials resulted in the deaths of women and men.Verse 19 refers to bestiality, a sin considered worthy of death. Christians used verse 20 to justify religious wars, Crusades and the slaughter of unbelievers throughout Europe. And the condemnation of heretics still goes on.Rape My Daughter"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)CommentJudges 19 describe a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken mob. When the father says "unto this man do not so vile a thing," he makes clear that sexual abuse should never befall a man (meaning him), yet a woman, even his own flesh and blood, or a concubine belonging to a perfect stranger, can receive punishment from men to do what they wish. This attitude against women still persists to this day and we have the Bible, in large part, to thank for this attitude against women.Verse 25 describes the hours long gang rape of the poor concubine. The Bible gives not one hint of passion or concern for the raped girl. Considering that many people believe that every word in the Bible comes from God, it should not surprise anyone why people still use these verses to justify such atrocities.Silence The Woman!"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)CommentAnother case where the Bible makes it quite clear that women live for man and must submit to them. "Man enjoys the great advantage of having a god endorse the code he writes; and since man exercises a sovereign authority over women it is especially fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being. For the Jews, Mohammedans and Christians among others, man is master by divine right; the fear of God will therefore repress any impulse towards revolt in the downtrodden female." --Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex 1949(See also I Cor. 11:3-12, I Cor. 14:34-36, I Peter 3:1-7, Ephesians 5:22-24, Col. 3:18-19.)Stone The Woman!"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" (Deuteronomy 22:22)"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:24)Comment(Read also Deuteronomy 22:13-21)The discovery of a bride lying with another man can yield disastrous results.If the wife's parents can produce tokens of the damsel's virginity and spread the cloth before the elders of the city, the husband has to pay the bride's father one hundred silver shekels and he may not send his wife back to her parents as long as she lives. But if the bride's virginity does not satisfy the requirements, the husband can get rid of her by letting the men of the city stone her to death.From a practical level, these designed laws regulating women's virginity protected economic transactions between men rather than for the sake of morality. (See Virgin's Worth below)"Virgin" Mistranslation"Therefore the LORD himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:14)CommentPerhaps the most famous mistranslation of the Bible, the word virgin here comes from a mistranslated Greek word for virgin.The original Hebrew version uses the word "almah" which means "young woman" which may or may not refer to a virgin. Of course the context of the original Hebrew Isaiah does not refer to a virgin at all, as scholars the world over agree, but only refers to a young woman.Later, the author of Matthew 1:22-23, quoted from the mistranslated Isaiah version, and thus the error turned into a world-wide belief.Today a few of the modern bibles such as the Revised Standard Version, have corrected this mistranslation and have replaced the word virgin with "young woman." (Isaiah 7:14, RSV)Apparently either God makes errors or the Bible does not come from god, but rather from fallible men.Virgin's Worth"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)CommentThe belief some get about the Biblical law leads them to think that it represented a great advancement in morality. However, if we look at this law in the social and economic context, it becomes evident that it did not come from any moral ground, but rather to protect men's property rights of their wives and daughters.This law says that since an unmarried girl, a non-virgin, no longer serves as an economically valuable asset, her father must receive compensation. As for the legal requirement of the man that caused the economic problem, his marriage in that society gave him practically unlimited power over their wives. Such forced marriage can hardly serve as a concern for the poor girl's welfare.Wives, Submit Yourselves!"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)CommentThese words of Paul describe another instance for the calling of the submission of women to their husbands. Note that the all inclusive "everything" could allow husbands to submit their wives to anything, including rape, beatings, slavery, etc.(See also I Cor. 11:3-12, I Cor. 14:34-36, I Timothy 2:8-15, I Peter 3:1-7, Col. 3:18-19.)Women Shall Not Speak"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)CommentIf one ever wishes to find an explanation of woman's inferiority to men, one only has to look in the Bible. Paul makes clear and delineates the importance of woman recognizing her place, "ad nauseam."(See also I Cor. 11:3-12, I Timothy 2:8-15, I Peter 3:1-7, Ephesians 5:22-24, Col. 3:18-19.) "The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world, that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play the role of a dependent on man's bounty for all her material wants, and for all the information she might desire... Here is the Bible position of woman briefly summed up." --Elizabeth Cady StantonWomen's Sorrow"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)CommentNot only does the Woman get blamed for the Fall, but God decides to multiply her sorrow, plus, she must submit to her husband like a slave.Religionists have used this verse as justification and "reason" for the pain and punishment (sin) of childbirth and the sin of mankind. And to this day many Christians, Jews and Islamics place women lower then men in the ranking of Godly order. If ever there existed a more cruel justification against women, it could not have done as much damage as from belief in Genesis 3:16. Because of the belief in the Fall, countless Christians have branded the entire human race as depraved.Before the advent of male dominated religions, cultures around the world respected women and worshipped goddesses. The Old Testament records the brutal slaughter of surrounding cultures and slowly throughout the centuries, the goddess religions faded away in place of the belief-system of a jealous, scatological, male war god. "Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and sinful." --D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)Rip Up Pregnant Women"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)CommentThroughout the Bible, God smites those who do not believe in him or those who do not follow his commands. Here we have the grotesque description of infants dashed to pieces and pregnant women ripped up. Whatever rebellious nature an infant's father or mother may have had, it bears no justice to an innocent child or to an unborn fetus who could not possibly have rebelled against God, much less understood him.Anyone who claims to love such a God, must accept infanticide as one of God's ugly revenges.(See also Psalms 137:9)The Wicked Woman"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22) - my favorite"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)CommentEcclesiasticus of the Apocrypha does not appear in most Bibles. However, in Catholic Bibles, the inferiority of woman still appears in the verses of Ecclesiasticus. These verses give only a sampling from this book that lowers the status of women.
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brvheart is not wrong. Now please post all the rules regarding men and children... thanks.Please, in the future, when you just cut and paste entire pages from websites that don't know what they're talking about, post a link.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

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I noticed that there was no refutation to this definition, or how it applies.I suppose it's hard to refute to something that so clear and present.
I like how you coattail other's debates.No one refuted it has the definition of a bigot. He did not refute that the word "bigot" does not appear under the definition of "fundamentalist."Come up with your own contribution.
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