David_Nicoson 1 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Here is a thought- maybe if you personally couldn't watch it for a few hours, it may not be normal? Could you watch gay sex for hours, up close and personal? Probably not.If we're just going to recycle the same comments, I'll just link my response. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 If we're just going to recycle the same comments, I'll just link my response. There are people that are completely into that...are they abnormal? That is what they need to get off, what would be the problem. You response proves nothing except that yes indeed we do look down on certain sexual practices because they are repulsive to us, as evidenced by our reluctance to even entertain the idea of watching said act. Way to prove my point. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Your refusal to answer the question is all that is needed. The reality is this.... we pretend that it is o.k., and then when asked the question,"Could you watch it?" the answer is "Hell,no" and alot of wriggling around pretty much like you are doing right now. That says something.....what would that be?Hmmm...could it be that somehow you know that it is wrong,even though you will NEVER admit that?many homosexuals are just as uncomfortable watching straight sex as you would be watching them. does that make straight sex intrinsically morally wrong? i'd be uncomfortable watching someone take a crap. does that make taking a crap morally wrong? your premise is silly.As far as being pioused, not really. I say do what you want. Just don't expect God to cut you slack.lolAs far as being a bigot...no. Once again, I say do what you want. I will never tell anyone how to live there life.implying that unrepentant homosexuals are going to hell is doing exactly that. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 There are people that are completely into that...are they abnormal? That is what they need to get off, what would be the problem. You response proves nothing except that yes indeed we do look down on certain sexual practices because they are repulsive to us, as evidenced by our reluctance to even entertain the idea of watching said act. Way to prove my point.This is such a simple point. Just because it's yucky doesn't make it immoral. There are lots of examples of things that are yucky that are not immoral: pooping, amputating a gangrenous limb, brain surgery, etc.So it doesn't work to say that homosexuality is immoral because it's yucky to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 This is such a simple point. Just because it's yucky doesn't make it immoral. There are lots of examples of things that are yucky that are not immoral: pooping, amputating a gangrenous limb, brain surgery, etc.So it doesn't work to say that homosexuality is immoral because it's yucky to you. All of those things would be extra "yucky" if they were connected to sex. Are you catching up yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 many homosexuals are just as uncomfortable watching straight sex as you would be watching them. does that make straight sex intrinsically morally wrong? i'd be uncomfortable watching someone take a crap. does that make taking a crap morally wrong? your premise is silly.lolimplying that unrepentant homosexuals are going to hell is doing exactly that.[/quote Telling someone what the available choices are is not telling them what to do. The choice is on them. So, then, would be quite uncomfortable watching gay sex, then. Got it. Me, too. Look at that, we agree that watching gay sex would be gross. We are making progress. Looks like you and I are not all that different. The problem isn't that we don't see this issue the same- we do. The problem is as a society we are trying to build this extra sensitive, anything goes, be whatever you want it's all good belief system but it's a flawed mindset, because naturally you cannot do it, because they natural instincts that you are born with will not let you. So, while I realize this and can accept it, you cannot because your own "sophisticated" belief system won't allow you to ask the questions or say the statements that I will,because that just wouldn't be cool, because we all know that gay is cool now. The T.V. says so, so it must be true. No one knows how sexuality is decided, so then it must be out of our control, right? How convenient that the ACCEPTABLE unproven answer just happens to be the one that okays anything and everything. Since nothing has been proven, did we just throw a dart to get where we are, or is it just easier this way because then nobody gets offended? Except for God, but who cares about him. Actually, every homosexual I know has no problem watching straight sex- doesn't bother them a bit. Not to mention, right now the focus is on you, and you have done nothing to help your case up to this point. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Actually, every homosexual I know has no problem watching straight sex- doesn't bother them a bit. Not to mention, right now the focus is on you, and you have done nothing to help your case up to this point. What?! You're arguments are so full of holes that the most simple logical statements destroy all of the notions you are trying to suggest. You've been thoroughly "pwned"... beautiful way to respond, though. Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Here is a thought- maybe if you personally couldn't watch it for a few hours, it may not be normal? Could you watch gay sex for hours, up close and personal? Probably not.Here's another thought.There are countless numbers of people who are straight and couldn't watch hetrosexual sex for hours up close and personal. They would find it disgusting and if asked would describe it as immoral. So by your standards gay sex is the same as straight sex.You call them prudes, I call them holes in your argument Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 What?! You're arguments are so full of holes that the most simple logical statements destroy all of the notions you are trying to suggest. You've been thoroughly "pwned"... beautiful way to respond, though. There is beauty in truth, this is true. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Here's another thought.There are countless numbers of people who are straight and couldn't watch hetrosexual sex for hours up close and personal. They would find it disgusting and if asked would describe it as immoral. So by your standards gay sex is the same as straight sex.You call them prudes, I call them holes in your argument About time somebody pointed that out- that's true, but the reason why is completely different. That's about being repulsed at the objectifying of love, the cheapening of it. Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 So, then, would be quite uncomfortable watching gay sex, then. Got it. Me, too. Look at that, we agree that watching gay sex would be gross.Why would you be uncomfortable watching gay sex?Homosexuality is a choice right?Surely you could choose not to be repulsed... Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Hmmm...My thoughts: - It's crazy for non-christians and christians to be debating this in the same thread. - Everyone sins so homosexual acts are not the reason one will or will not be saved - The debate in the Christian world should stop and start on whether Christian marriages should be performed for a couple of the same sex, and whether an active non-impulsive and self-promoting sinner should be ordained - The debate in the secular world is whether we're going to treat people differently based on religious beliefs- Homosexuals cannot pro-create, so we heteros need not worry about gay world dominationHomosexuals who have not sought forgiveness for their sins, just like everyone else, will not be saved and enter the Kingdom of God. Christian marriages can not be performed for couples of the same sex because the original purpose of marriage was to procreate and fill the world.....those couples can't do that. God encourages us to love our neighbor, so following God's word tells us that we treat each other well and let him hand out an discipline neededl. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Actually, it's funny you bring that up, because your intolerance for religous beliefs is on par with racism. As a christian, who believes that homosexuality is a sin, here is what is being said: people who engage in homosexual acts with no repentance will not be allowed into heaven. That is all. They can love, be loved, make money, adopt, work, roam freely thru the wild, be free as the wind- they just can't get into heaven, because no sin is allowed into heaven. This goes for something as simple as liars, people who lie- they won't be allowed into heaven either. Some people cannot stop lying- do you know people like that? I do. They won't make it. Unless they repent from being dishonest, and continue to strive to be honest, they will not be allowed into heaven. No sin enters into heaven, no sin whatsoever. Homosexuality gets no pass, it is no different. I always like the thought that if God doesn't save everybody then he is not a good God. The truth is, you don't know- let's say I am in a car accident, I am carpooling to work. 2 co-workers burn alive and I walk away unharmed. What happened? Why didn't God step in? How could you or I even possibly answer? What if these were horrible people, all about sin and nothing else, completely ignoring God in all they do? We can never really know, so we don't say. Meanwhile, though, it hurts no one if one believes that it was God that saved him or her. Who is hurt? Close call- maybe that close call is what that christian needs to see areas in his life that need changeing- God knows a little reason for reflection never hurt a christian, a close call can be all that is needed.Lois, I think one major point that some of these folks are forgetting is FREE WILL. If you are dead set on walking into a speeding locomotive, God gave you a brain and free will to make that decision and if it's your time to go....you're outta here! But if it isn't your time to go, you'll most likely be spending 24/7 flat of your back wondering why you survived. God doesn't have us fitted with special hardware that keeps us from sinning or making bad decisions. He just has to believe that we are following in his footsteps and will do the right thing. And if we make a mistake, we repent......much like you did when you got in trouble with your Mom and Dad. They couldn't keep you from getting into everything, but they always forgave and welcomed you back home, right? God's like that too. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I know most of the arguments from both sides and in the end, you will believe in religion due to your faith that is baseless in any sense of reality. And that is what I'm trying to fight.How have you determined that our faith is baseless in any sense of reality? Do you not believe that the Holy Bible is reality? Nothing of the archaeological finds in and around Jerusalem are reality? Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 How have you determined that our faith is baseless in any sense of reality? Do you not believe that the Holy Bible is reality? Nothing of the archaeological finds in and around Jerusalem are reality?do archaeological finds in greece make it require any less faith to believe in gods mentioned in the iliad? Link to post Share on other sites
BWToth 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Your refusal to answer the question is all that is needed. The reality is this.... we pretend that it is o.k., and then when asked the question,"Could you watch it?" the answer is "Hell,no" and alot of wriggling around pretty much like you are doing right now. That says something.....what would that be?Hmmm...could it be that somehow you know that it is wrong,even though you will NEVER admit that? As far as being pioused, not really. I say do what you want. Just don't expect God to cut you slack. That goes for any sin...homosexuality is not special. All sin is an abomination to God. As far as being a bigot...no. Once again, I say do what you want. I will never tell anyone how to live there life. I will pass on what God is looking for, and they can do with it as they please. It really is that simple.I couldn't watch a pack of lions stalk, kill, and devour baby wildebeests for multiple hours due to both physical and emotional distress....does that mean it is biblically wrong for lions to hunt wildebeests? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I couldn't watch a pack of lions stalk, kill, and devour baby wildebeests for multiple hours due to both physical and emotional distress....does that mean it is biblically wrong for lions to hunt wildebeests? Neither could I.....especially if that involved sex in some way. This is such a simple point I am suprised you guys are having such a hard time grasping it. Do you realize that there are some here that would argue that clubs devoted to sex while watching a pack of lions devour baby wildebeests would be perfectly normal, because nobody is getting hurt, and who are you to judge? Yet anybody with a shred of common sense(actually, I call it uncommon sense, because it isn't all that common anymore) knows that that would be ****ing weird and not normal at all. Link to post Share on other sites
20TN40 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 do archaeological finds in greece make it require any less faith to believe in gods mentioned in the iliad?I'm sure that there is probably some sort of sect that has faith that the gods mentioned in the Iliad truly existed but I'm not one of them. But you still didn't answer my question as to how you have determined that faith is baseless in reality. Faith is belief or trust in someone or some thing and just because it isn't YOUR reality doesn't mean it isn't MY reality.By the way, I think you are misunderstanding our faith. It isn't faith of a religion, it IS faith in God. Mankind has tried to divide and splinter groups of individuals based on which parts of the Holy Bible they believe in. I believe the whole thing, cover to cover, which doesn't fit in any particular religion's pigeon hole. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I'm sure that there is probably some sort of sect that has faith that the gods mentioned in the Iliad truly existed but I'm not one of them. But you still didn't answer my question as to how you have determined that faith is baseless in reality. Faith is belief or trust in someone or some thing and just because it isn't YOUR reality doesn't mean it isn't MY reality.By the way, I think you are misunderstanding our faith. It isn't faith of a religion, it IS faith in God. Mankind has tried to divide and splinter groups of individuals based on which parts of the Holy Bible they believe in. I believe the whole thing, cover to cover, which doesn't fit in any particular religion's pigeon hole.Blind faith (which is what you suggest) is "knowing" without any basis in a practical sense of proof or evidence. The validity of what you believe holds no more strength then the fact that the religion is practiced by many and has lasted a long long time.I'll make a bet, though, that your Christian dogma would be scoffed at by followers in the 17th century.You can talk all day long about people with their own realities, I don't care... it means nothing to me. Just don't act like I should sit back and consider your possible reality to be truth when you can't even present a shred of practical proof or evidence in the god that you believe in. Your religious views deserve no respect or consideration until you give a decent reason as to why they should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Blind faith (which is what you suggest) is "knowing" without any basis in a practical sense of proof or evidence. The validity of what you believe holds no more strength then the fact that the religion is practiced by many and has lasted a long long time.I'll make a bet, though, that your Christian dogma would be scoffed at by followers in the 17th century.You can talk all day long about people with their own realities, I don't care... it means nothing to me. Just don't act like I should sit back and consider your possible reality to be truth when you can't even present a shred of practical proof or evidence in the god that you believe in. Your religious views deserve no respect or consideration until you give a decent reason as to why they should be. It's going to suck when you spend your life believing in nothing and it turns out the the nothing was actually God, yet you never afforded the nothing the respect it deserved, so be gone with you. Your whole statement is the reason why I don't waste my time with you any longer- you are not seeking, and don't care to, therefore even God won't bother. You choose to take God out of the equation, and he sure as hell is not going to beg. So, his answer is basically,"O.k., go to hell." Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 I'm sure that there is probably some sort of sect that has faith that the gods mentioned in the Iliad truly existed but I'm not one of them. But you still didn't answer my question as to how you have determined that faith is baseless in reality. Faith is belief or trust in someone or some thing and just because it isn't YOUR reality doesn't mean it isn't MY reality.christianity is incompatable with solipsism in my reality. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 All of those things would be extra "yucky" if they were connected to sex. Are you catching up yet?Let me see if I have this straight before I argue further. You're saying that one can apply the yucky test specifically to sexual morality but not to morality in general? Are there any other areas in which the yucky test applies? How can I tell (scripturally or otherwise) when to apply the yucky test? Link to post Share on other sites
Loismustdie 0 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Let me see if I have this straight before I argue further. You're saying that one can apply the yucky test specifically to sexual morality but not to morality in general? Are there any other areas in which the yucky test applies? How can I tell (scripturally or otherwise) when to apply the yucky test? How about I just write you off as one of the ones who aren't looking to really doing anything but making retarded arguments and see how long they can make me react? I think that's the way to go here. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 How about I just write you off as one of the ones who aren't looking to really doing anything but making retarded arguments and see how long they can make me react? I think that's the way to go here.You have no response because you're starting to realize that your argument is indefensible. Link to post Share on other sites
KramitDaToad 0 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 About time somebody pointed that out- that's true, but the reason why is completely different. That's about being repulsed at the objectifying of love, the cheapening of it.Actually whilst some may, many are just repulsed by the sight of 2 people getting it on.Watching two overweight, excessively hairy old people for hours on end would be quite revolting for most people.Give it up - your 'gross' test is lame and ignorant Link to post Share on other sites
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