Is Homosexuality Really A Sin?

[SBriand 4]

If you don't believe in God, why do you have a problem with something being labled a "sin" or not? This is a very absurd concept to me.

I used to date a girl who was super religious. She told me I was going to hell all the time when she saw me smoking. She said that I am hurting my body which is an insult to god or what have you. That is what bothers me. If you want to believe my actions are a sin, then feel free to believe what you want, cause I truly do not care. But to preach and force your beliefs upon me is what I don't like. So in response to that question, for me, my problem would be that if I was a homo that I would prefer people like you, who believe that I would be a sinner, not sit around and tell me I am a sinner. Who are you to judge me? Who are you to label me? Many Christians do not like to be labeled as Bible Thumpers anymore than homos want to be labeled as sinners. Why must we sit here and label people's actions? I just don't get it. To a Christian, sin is a bad thing. What gives people the right to point at others and call them sinners because of their beliefs or lifestyle. I think it is rude and not very Christian like.

[renaedawn 1]

I used to date a girl who was super religious. She told me I was going to hell all the time when she saw me smoking. She said that I am hurting my body which is an insult to god or what have you. That is what bothers me. If you want to believe my actions are a sin, then feel free to believe what you want, cause I truly do not care. But to preach and force your beliefs upon me is what I don't like. So in response to that question, for me, my problem would be that if I was a homo that I would prefer people like you, who believe that I would be a sinner, not sit around and tell me I am a sinner. Who are you to judge me? Who are you to label me? Many Christians do not like to be labeled as Bible Thumpers anymore than homos want to be labeled as sinners. Why must we sit here and label people's actions? I just don't get it. To a Christian, sin is a bad thing. What gives people the right to point at others and call them sinners because of their beliefs or lifestyle. I think it is rude and not very Christian like.

Sin is just a word. It only has power if you let it have power. Homos need to quit being so sensitive too.

[crowTrobot 2]

While some Christians are literalists, many others are much like me, seeing the Bible as a compass, as inspiration that we can only hope to slightly conceive and try to do our best with. I don't believe it's the only source of religious inspiration, nor do I believe a human can ever fully conceive the true nature of God. We can only do our best, and encourage the same in others.

you're not a christian

[gobears 0]

you're not a christian

Christian: One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.Not sure I understand Crow, is your definition of a Christian more rigid?

[crowTrobot 2]

Christian: One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.Not sure I understand Crow, is your definition of a Christian more rigid?

a christian by definition would not find religious "inspiration" (meaning religious *truth* in the context of this thread) from any source but the bible.

[Loismustdie 0]

That's fine. If gays scare you then so be it. If you think gays are bad feel free to protect you and yours from it. But not everyone has to feel the same way. Maybe I am missing your point or missed a part of this thread and you are not trying to force these beliefs on society, and if that is the case I apologize. I am not gay. I do not want to be gay and I don't find gay sex attractive, but I it doesn't bother me one bit. I am not afraid to say myself that if people want to be gay and get married, more power to you. I could give a crap. They are human beings and they (should) have the same rights as other human beings regardless of how close-minded and rude most of the world is. I believe in God but I do not believe most of what I have read in the Bible and I also decided on my own that God isn't the prick most make him out to be.

It's not about fear. It's about what I believe should be promoted to my girl and what shouldn't be. I will tell you how afraid I am- nada. I was raised christian, new hundreds of kids nationwide, all in the same christian organization, many of whom I still have contact with today. Not one is gay, or lesbian. Our methods of rasing our children works just fine. We churn out straight kids left and right.

[DonkSlayer 1]

a christian by definition would not find religious "inspiration" (meaning religious *truth* in the context of this thread) from any source but the bible.

Not true. Although Lois and Brv may tell you differently.

[Loismustdie 0]

So, tell me then how does a picture of 2 men holding hands looking for an apartment cause a bigger impact on anyones family than Romeo & Juliet which describes lust, revenge, murder and suicide?

One is work of fiction, a poetic story. One is presenting options, in a sneaky way. Also, it would depend on how old she was. Judgement come into it. At 15,she could handle it. At 6, those are questions I don't want to answer yet. True story. 6th grade a guy named Andre pinned me to the ground- we were wrestling- and rubbed my balls, and said,"Do you like that, big guy?" I said,"No, get off of me." and we went on with our day. I realized years later what Andre most likely was headed for, but not that day. That day,I didn't even know what gay was. Because I wasn't told. It wasn't shown me, it wasn't talked about, I had no idea it even existed. One of the things about abominations,is there is no reason to dwell on them. I know some christians that won't even discuss anything gay, because they don't like to let there minds think on bad things. I don't go that far, but I understand.

[Loismustdie 0]

I said that you're being the Lord of the Religion Forum because of the way in which you are insinuating that people who don't agree with you are not welcome to enter into this discussion. Quit being an ass and you might actually get something out of this conversation. As long as you choose to defend instead of discuss, you're not going to see anyone's points.

Look back at how you entered the fray and tell me you can reasonably say that my reaction to your line of thinking was that off base. I liked what you said earlier about not so entrenched that you could never be convinced- these are good things. That's not how you acted when you arrived. Would you agree on that? Incidentally, I made a post about your discrepancies with the New Testament. I will paste it for you in this reply. I would love to hear your reaction: Ron, you're way off, and I will tell you why. The same story is told, by 4 different writers. Emphasis on different things-details different here and there- and yet, the same story, which proves the human element while at the same time proveing uncorroborated effort- just 4 dudes writing about the same thing they witnessed. All Mrs. Game, Set, Match has done is prove the oposite of what she intended to. Ron had agreed with you, and I replied to him. If I am taking the role of religous forum police, I apologize. Realize that I do spend alot of time putting myself out there, and take alot of guff for it, so it does put me on the defensive. I will work on that. Fair enough?

[Loismustdie 0]

I hate to do this, but the KrazyKristians are ACTUALLY seeming like the more rational people over the last few pages I skimmed...First off, even as a man who claims to have no problem with homosexuality, I'm pretty sure if my son ended up being gay I'd be disappointed. And I don't think that makes me a bad person. And I don't think it would necessarily make a Christian a bad person if he were more unhappy that his sone were gay than if he were lustful or slothy or prideful or whatever. You guys are setting up straw man arguments so you can say "SEE!" but that's just about as intellectually dishonest as the behavior you're decrying in your counterparts...If my son's school decided to broach the subject of homosexuality with my 3rd grade son, I'd be furious, as should anyone else. NOT because of my particular views on homosexuality, BUT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE SCHOOL'S JOB. It's not Mrs. Johnson's job to educate my son on issues of complexy morality, religion, and social tolerance in the third grade. Teach him math and how to spell. I'll take care of the rest.As for the Civil Unions thing:YOU can personally marginalize whomever you want. I have no problem with that. But to do so systematically and instituionally via the government is unacceptable, and completely contrary to the spirit our nation was built upon. YOU can be racist. That's okay. But if you work for Congress, or the supreme court, or the police, you can't behave in a racist manner (especially if you have input on major policy agendas, etc.). That's the difference. Tolerance is a PERSONAL issue. Government is not- and should not be- personal. Merely tolerating black people is not enough. Their rights MUST be vigorously defended by the highest powers in the nation, and not systematically separated from and marginalized by the government.Think about this... Is the Constitution supposed to be a document that takes rights AWAY from people? Think about that. Think about a possible amendment to the Constitution that says "Gay people can't marry." How disturbing is that? Doesn't that make your SKIN craw? Using our nation's highest laws to strip a group of people of the rights afforded to others because people think it's icky, and others think it's a sin? Ewww. What's next? "Not believing in Jesus is a sin. Therefore, expression of the Jewish faith should NOT be allowed." ???Wang

Fantastic line of thought. Let me consider that for awhile.

[Loismustdie 0]

Sin is just a word. It only has power if you let it have power. Homos need to quit being so sensitive too.

That is an excellent point as well.

[Loismustdie 0]

Okay, so now lets reapply context. What goes around comes aroundIt was LMD that brought up the original objection. Do you think a picture of 2 men holding hands looking for an apartment is promoting homosexual sex any more than the Jack & Jill scenario? Promoting it enough to warrant home-schooling?My guess is you don't and therefore you might just agree that the whole home-schooling thing is a bit of an over reaction. He try's to divert the issue by throwing in the 'protecting my family card' but anyone that takes a moment to actually think about it knows it's a front.His post was that of a homophobe and a biggot.He even follows it with the biggot's catchphrase a few posts later[/quote Canada- you are way off base here. I am tolerant, to a point. That doesn't make me a homphobe or a biggot, anymore than I am a murderer because I killed a guy who was assaulting my wife. I have a right to protect what I feel is valuable. What I don't have the right to do is intrude on others to do so. Somebodys got to agree with me that there is a difference.

[SBriand 4]

[ Canada- you are way off base here. I am tolerant, to a point. That doesn't make me a homphobe or a biggot, anymore than I am a murderer because I killed a guy who was assaulting my wife. I have a right to protect what I feel is valuable. What I don't have the right to do is intrude on others to do so. Somebodys got to agree with me that there is a difference.

I agree with that.

[brvheart 1,752]

renaedawn said:

I guess my issue isn't so much about what is labeled a sin. I figure you can have a whole room full of pages and pages of sin if you want. The issue that gives me heartburn is that so many people say "God says" and I think it's #1 human arrogance to believe that we can ever know the mind of God if he is truly a God and #2 that so many people point to the Bible as what "God says" and it's a tragedy of common sense and understanding of human nature to think that the Bible is not tainted with human bias.I think if more Christians and non-Christians alike would analyze why something is right or wrong instead of just pointing to the Bible and saying "God says" then we might come a little closer to actually understanding what we can of God.

It's fine for you to think this if looking at things from the perspective that God doesn't exist. I, however, look at it from a different perspective... THIS IS THE POINT I THINK YOU ARE MISSING: My God is all powerful and all knowing... BECAUSE the Bible is infallible that is PROOF to me that He has maintained it and not allowed His message to be tarnished. To me it's also basic common sense, that if an all powerful God didn't want the Bible to change in 2,000 - 4,000 years that it wouldn't be hard for Him... considering He made the universe and everything in it.

renaedawn said:

Yeah, those guys! Let's burn them at the stake. I've enjoyed this discussion and it's been one of the few that I've had regarding this topic that hasn't ended in stupid petty bickering and name calling.

I agree, I think everyone has basically remained respectful... and it's been great.

crowTrobot said:

you're not a christiana christian by definition would not find religious "inspiration" (meaning religious *truth* in the context of this thread) from any source but the bible.

I may have to agree with Crow here... Donk, could you to elaborate on what you said.

Answer the following questions:

"If you died tonight and went to heaven and God asked you why He should let you in... what would you say?"

"Can you get to heaven apart from Jesus?"

 

What is your stance on John 14:6?

[Loismustdie 0]

It's fine for you to think this if looking at things from the perspective that God doesn't exist. I, however, look at it from a different perspective... THIS IS THE POINT I THINK YOU ARE MISSING: My God is all powerful and all knowing... BECAUSE the Bible is infallible that is PROOF to me that He has maintained it and not allowed His message to be tarnished. To me it's also basic common sense, that if an all powerful God didn't want the Bible to change in 2,000 - 4,000 years that it wouldn't be hard for Him... considering He made the universe and everything in it.I agree, I think everyone has basically remained respectful... and it's been great.I may have to agree with Crow here... Donk, I need you to eloborate on what you said. Answer the following questions:"If you died tonight and went to heaven and God asked you why He should let you in... what would you say?"What is your stance on John 14:6?"Can you get to heaven apart from Jesus?"

I was going to say what you said about God protecting the bible, but faith is then the refutable issue there- anytime faith is brought into the equation it immediately seems to come with a moniker that states, if it takes faith, then it's not real. It has been great- this has been an absolute pleasure to talk about. Extremely thought provoking, and that is always a good thing. I was actually thinking the same thing- I am not sure what Crow or Donk meant when he used the phrase religous inspiration. I am curious to here more.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I'd just like to congratulate everyone on being all rational and cool-headed over the last few pages of the thread...I'm going to hop back in here in the morning, but for now I am going to go cry myself to sleep. If there is a God, I believe he decided to smite me at the poker table tonight. It's hard to not win a SINGLE HAND in 4-5 hours when you're playing ~7-8 handed, on average. Wang

[Loismustdie 0]

I'd just like to congratulate everyone on being all rational and cool-headed over the last few pages of the thread...I'm going to hop back in here in the morning, but for now I am going to go cry myself to sleep. If there is a God, I believe he decided to smite me at the poker table tonight. It's hard to not win a SINGLE HAND in 4-5 hours when you're playing ~7-8 handed, on average. Wang

I have felt smited for about a year. I don't think God really watches the game.

[Flack_attack 0]

We deserve death, and yet in his love and mercy he is still reaching out to you today... even though you, and others on this forum, are currently rejecting him.Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.God is far from a horrible monster. He is an all-sufficient Savior. If you need another opposing viewpoint to your 'monster' theory, click here.um... exactly.

Read my post. Im not rejecting God. I'm a Christian.

[Canada 0]

Canada- you are way off base here. I am tolerant, to a point. That doesn't make me a homphobe or a biggot, anymore than I am a murderer because I killed a guy who was assaulting my wife. I have a right to protect what I feel is valuable. What I don't have the right to do is intrude on others to do so. Somebodys got to agree with me that there is a difference.

Because I wasn't told. It wasn't shown me, it wasn't talked about, I had no idea it even existed. One of the things about abominations,is there is no reason to dwell on them. I know some christians that won't even discuss anything gay, because they don't like to let there minds think on bad things. I don't go that far, but I understand.

No you go right ahead insinuating gays are abominations and that your family needs protection from them. Or that a picture of 2 men holding hands is 'sneaky' way of getting evil into your life.Not a homophobe or a biggot at all

[DonkSlayer 1]

Answer the following questions:"If you died tonight and went to heaven and God asked you why He should let you in... what would you say?""Can you get to heaven apart from Jesus?"What is your stance on John 14:6?

Good morning.1. He shouldn't, apart from that I believe Christ died for my sins. I can only his grace is bestowed on me through my faith.2. No.3. You have to live in Christ for salvation.I don't see what these questions had to do with me not being a Christian because I don't believe the Bible is the sole source of religious truth.

[brvheart 1,752]

Good morning.1. He shouldn't, apart from that I believe Christ died for my sins. I can only his grace is bestowed on me through my faith.2. No.3. You have to live in Christ for salvation.I don't see what these questions had to do with me not being a Christian because I don't believe the Bible is the sole source of religious truth.

I didn't say you weren't a Chrisitian... I just didn't understand your previous post. This current post cleared some things up nicely.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

you're not a christian

neither are you

[DonkSlayer 1]

I didn't say you weren't a Chrisitian... I just didn't understand your previous post. This current post cleared some things up nicely.

Brv~I struggle with the Gospel of John sometimes...it's a picture of Jesus that's much more forward and revealing than the other 3 gospels would imply. Do you take a lot of what Jesus says in John rhetorically/metaphorically or lean toward literal?For instance.."I am the way, the truth, and the life." Does this mean that we cannot enter heaven unless we go through Jesus, or if we accept the "way, truth and life" that Jesus personified?Or,Jesus also says in John to one of his disciples that he must allow Jesus to wash his disciples feet, or the disciple cannot be with him/be saved/something of the sort. Obviously this implies that you can't become clean of your sin without Jesus, and not literally that you must have your feet washed...right?

[crowTrobot 2]

neither are you

thanks for the compliment

[brvheart 1,752]

Brv~I struggle with the Gospel of John sometimes...it's a picture of Jesus that's much more forward and revealing than the other 3 gospels would imply. Do you take a lot of what Jesus says in John rhetorically/metaphorically or lean toward literal?

It depends on the passage, because obviously Jesus spoke rhetorically metaphorically and literally depending on the situation. (See Fig Tree thread)

"I am the way, the truth, and the life." Does this mean that we cannot enter heaven unless we go through Jesus, or if we accept the "way, truth and life" that Jesus personified?

Within context of the rest of the gospel message I would say that he is saying the first... but the 2nd is certainly possible. It doesn't really change anything either way, since both are important.

Jesus also says in John to one of his disciples that he must allow Jesus to wash his disciples feet, or the disciple cannot be with him/be saved/something of the sort. Obviously this implies that you can't become clean of your sin without Jesus, and not literally that you must have your feet washed...right?

This is obviously the first. If someone believed the 2nd, Jesus would reprimand them for being stupid.

thanks for the compliment

This made me chuckle.. nh.