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Is Homosexuality Really A Sin?


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Few last minute things. Past couple of weeks have been crazy. I was doing alot of studying to pass my series 7 to get my brokerage license, that way I can actually keep my new job at Charles Schwab. I passed. :club: Took alot of time though, I was basically starting from scratch, in that I really didn't know anything about the world of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, IRAs, etc.- I still don't, just enough to pass that test. Anyway, I had little time for anything else.
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MELLO, BUFFALO. CHANDLER, BUFFALO. KENYON MARTIN, BUFFALO. JR SMITH, BUFFALO. PIGIONNI, HE'LL BUFFALO YOUR FUKEN COOKIES

I'm more of an Otter man myself, F.

Also, what is anyone's answer to the issue about the 'old' law v. 'new' law. You cannot use leviticus as a means to determine the morality of something today with regard to the Bible....period.
This is right and wrong...Most christians see the OT has a history book...It paints a picture of how God dealt with a variety of situation. Obviously the penalties for sin nor how to atone for sin. But that is because of what Jesus brought. The sin is still there and it is still wrong, but now there is an offer of hope for those who do sin. While the punishment doled out in levitucs is irrelevant, the sin itself isnt.
Matt:"How do you even make a single decision in your daily life. What happens when a situation arises whose circumstances haven't been discussed in scripture, do you just lay down and go to sleep and avoid it?"How about answering the question, rather then laughing at it then...
give me a situation...that you think a christian would just lay down and avoid? I still dont understand what is difficult about this? I would be quite certain that the way I or an other Christian makes decisions is quite similiar to how you make a decision.
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Crow and I don't agree on much, but he said something awhile back that struck me as pretty insightful and it is the rock solid truth. Most people who claim christianity have no idea what the bible actually teaches, and if they did they would realize that they actually aren't really following christianity, but a weaker interpetation of it. I think it was Crow, but it might have been Yorke.
it was me and i wasn't exactly referring to interpretation issues. i was talking about how most people who call themselves christians, for the most part 6 days a week lead pleasure/fun-seeking superficial lives any non-christian would lead. nothing personal against DN but to use him as an example since he blogs most of his activities, compare the time he spends at recreational poker, golf, video games, dicking around with friends, drinking, and other non-christian persuits vs. the time he spends directly witnessing to others or promoting christianity in indirect ways, going out of his way to help others in god's name etc. obviously he does some of the latter, which is commendable in that most people who call themselves christians do nothing at all. but it really seems to be a small part of his life overall, utterly lacking the relevance it would if he really had a grasp of jesus' teachings about giving your entire life to god, and utterly lacking a grasp of the concept that this life is temporary (and extremely short) and everyone's soul is on the line.
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it was me and i wasn't exactly referring to interpretation issues. i was talking about how most people who call themselves christians, for the most part 6 days a week lead pleasure/fun-seeking superficial lives any non-christian would lead. nothing personal against DN but to use him as an example since he blogs most of his activities, compare the time he spends at recreational poker, golf, video games, dicking around with friends, drinking, and other non-christian persuits vs. the time he spends directly witnessing to others or promoting christianity in indirect ways, going out of his way to help others in god's name etc. obviously he does some of the latter, which is commendable in that most people who call themselves christians do nothing at all. but it really seems to be a small part of his life overall, utterly lacking the relevance it would if he really had a grasp of jesus' teachings about giving your entire life to god, and utterly lacking a grasp of the concept that this life is temporary (and extremely short) and everyone's soul is on the line.
Agree with you 100% on- wait, let me check and see if you slipped something in I didn't notice- yep, everything you said is right on. Most people don't display anything close to the commitment it takes, and that includes me. Now, I understood what you were talking about in that you, having read the bible can see that most that claim to follow don't actually follow, based on what is in there. That's all I was getting at.
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Matt, no, I don't think they do lay down, it was sarcasm...obivously you make decisions about things that aren't in the bible and you use you're own judgment about them. That's my point. you say you have to do what the bible says and not deviate from it, well the bible doesn't address every issue known to man or imaginable in the future does it. So there are holes that need to be filled in.Louis, then how come we eat pork today, etc. etc....there is most definitely a quote in the bible where jesus 'throws out the old law' somewhere where the eye for an eye turns into turn the other cheek. what does paul say about the subject? give me a quote, so I know its real and not just you making it up. thanks.Don't judge what my knowledge about the bible is based on my 'stance' regarding the issue, that is simply ignorant.You guys need to go to college, or read a philosophy or logic book.Then maybe you'll see why the arugments you make don't make any sense.

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Matt, no, I don't think they do lay down, it was sarcasm...obivously you make decisions about things that aren't in the bible and you use you're own judgment about them. That's my point. you say you have to do what the bible says and not deviate from it, well the bible doesn't address every issue known to man or imaginable in the future does it. So there are holes that need to be filled in.Louis, then how come we eat pork today, etc. etc....there is most definitely a quote in the bible where jesus 'throws out the old law' somewhere where the eye for an eye turns into turn the other cheek. what does paul say about the subject? give me a quote, so I know its real and not just you making it up. thanks.Don't judge what my knowledge about the bible is based on my 'stance' regarding the issue, that is simply ignorant.You guys need to go to college, or read a philosophy or logic book.Then maybe you'll see why the arugments you make don't make any sense.
We eat pork because Jesus specifically says that all meat is O.K. Here is a scripture: 1Tim.4 [3] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[4] For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:[5] For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. The Old Law is definitely thrown away. I ask you again-what exactly is the Old Law? Do you even know? As far as Pauls thoughts on it, here you go: Rom.1[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Clear enough for you? As far as you calling me ignorant, whatever. I can clearly judge your knowledge of the bible by the simple fact that you don't know what the old law is, and you have no idea what Paul said on the matter, much less apparently even a hint of it that you could even do a search for it with a simple bible program. See, if you did, you would know that even if you can't remember where the scripture is located, you know that one of the key phrases is "men with men."Do a search, bing,bang,boom, got it. As far as the bible not addressing every issue known to man-give me an example. I have heard that one so many times, it's almost like somebody else said it and now it's just being repeated over and over. As far as me going to school, it looks to me that when it comes to this subject I can handle myself just fine. School is for fools. Wheeee. I bet nobody can guess what God awful comedy I got that "school is for fools" line from.
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Also, I have been making arguments that make no sense my whole life,and I always know when I am toeing that line. This isn't one of those times. When it comes to homosexuality and the bible it's quite clear, and really dissapointing how people just brush over it like it means nothing- I mean, this is the word of God. Who gave us the right to just ignore what we want to? I will answer that for you- God did. Not, however, without consequences but you most definitely have the right to do what you will with it.

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gonna play it safe here and go with the good 'ol "Judge not lest ye be judged". My wife has been in the hair business for over 19 years....and we have many friends of homosexual orientation. They are great friends. The last thing I'm ever gonna do is judge any of them, or any others. That said I do agree with Daniel that many (at least our friends) were born that way. It was NOT a choice, it is who they are, and a few are actually tortured about it within themselves. One friend said he feels cursed! Pretty sad. I wont go any further than to say we have experienced all facets of this, from prejudicies to one our our best friends dying of aids. Only God will have the final verdict.

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Matt, no, I don't think they do lay down, it was sarcasm...obivously you make decisions about things that aren't in the bible and you use you're own judgment about them. That's my point. you say you have to do what the bible says and not deviate from it, well the bible doesn't address every issue known to man or imaginable in the future does it. So there are holes that need to be filled in.
Again im wondering if u have some specific example in mind? Do you not base your decisions on certain criteria? Same as any christian would. Man i get the feeling that you equate christians to aliens or robots who cannot think on ur own. Geez its really not that tough. Bible saws to love thy neighbor. So obviously your decisions shouldnt screw others over. Do not lie cheat or steal...more obvious stuff...The bible provides moral guidelines just as im sure u have moral guidelines you follow. Bible doesnt need to provide advice for every situation b/c if you do follow what it says most decisions really arent that hard...I just dont understand how this isnt common sense for anybody?
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homosexuals are that way from the day they are bornask yourself this if you are in doubtif you are straight do find women attractive because you REALLY find them attractive or is it because the bible says you you have to?I know for me it's because I find women attractive and not because other people say I shouldThe fact of the matter is that people who shun off people because of who they decide to be with are judging...and the last I checked judgment was heinous sin.

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homosexuals are that way from the day they are bornask yourself this if you are in doubtif you are straight do find women attractive because you REALLY find them attractive or is it because the bible says you you have to?I know for me it's because I find women attractive and not because other people say I shouldThe fact of the matter is that people who shun off people because of who they decide to be with are judging...and the last I checked judgment was heinous sin.
I agree with that- however judge not lest ye be judged means just that- you better be able to take that same judgement. I don't need to be standing in judgement to know that the bible frowns upon homsexuality- it comes right out and says it. That's not judgement, that's just simple reading.
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Again im wondering if u have some specific example in mind? Do you not base your decisions on certain criteria? Same as any christian would. Man i get the feeling that you equate christians to aliens or robots who cannot think on ur own. Geez its really not that tough. Bible saws to love thy neighbor. So obviously your decisions shouldnt screw others over. Do not lie cheat or steal...more obvious stuff...The bible provides moral guidelines just as im sure u have moral guidelines you follow. Bible doesnt need to provide advice for every situation b/c if you do follow what it says most decisions really arent that hard...I just dont understand how this isnt common sense for anybody?
I have also asked for examples- none so far. Your point about if you follow, most desicions aren't that hard is as on the money as can be. It's only hard to follow God when you try to hold onto sin as well- I know this as well as anyone else. Sin- much like the dark side- clouds the mind. Powerful the dark side is.
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Many of the things written in the Bible about sex wouldn't not seem appropriate to our society today. Whether it be stoning a woman who was found to not be a virgin, to executing couples who have sex during the menstral cycle. Aside from sexual practices between 11-13 year olds, the one that really struck me as being bizarre in today's world would be that it says, if a man dies, his widow is to marry and bear children with his eldest brother, and if unsuccessful, must continue to do so until she bear a boy to one of his brothers. Doesn't that sound kinda sick?
Has anyone given an adequate response to this little argument yet? I alluded to anachronistic and completely unenforced tenants of the bible earlier, and Daniel made it a point to expand. So: do you believe that if you knowingly have sex with your wife while she's menstruating you're committing a mortal sin? If so, do you ignore it because it seems silly and anachronistic? As a true Christian, if your younger brother dies childless, will you take his wife until she bears you a male heir? Do you believe you SHOULD do this? Do you think, if you rejected this commandment from God, you would be committing a sin? Would you simply accept that you're sinning in this way, and ask for his forgiveness?Wang
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lois, old law is just the old jewish laws, moses...all jewish laws up until the time of jesus.Matt, if you believe the bible, without questioning why you believe it or if it is valid then you are, my friend, simply a robot.

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lois, old law is just the old jewish laws, moses...all jewish laws up until the time of jesus.Matt, if you believe the bible, without questioning why you believe it or if it is valid then you are, my friend, simply a robot.
Sure. What did the old law entail? What was the primary difference between what we see now and what we see then? I expect- matter of fact I know, because he and I have had this discussion before, and over the past 2 years have discussed many topics biblically, Matt has done plenty of questioning. The thing that really, really helps though is knowing what you are questioning- incidentally, that takes a lifetime. A christian is always growing, studying, coming to better, more refined understandings. It never really ends.
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something about separating themselves from the 'dirty' romans and stuff, something along the lines of civil disobediance.i'm not talking about discussing topics biblically, what about the idea that you might be wrong, maybe christianity is wrong. do you ever ponder that? and if the only conclusion you can reach is "well i'd rather beleive, that way if i'm right i go to heaven instead of hell and if i'm wrong the same thing happens either way" then that seems pretty weak. What is your motivation for believing in the christian faith?

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Has anyone given an adequate response to this little argument yet? I alluded to anachronistic and completely unenforced tenants of the bible earlier, and Daniel made it a point to expand. So: do you believe that if you knowingly have sex with your wife while she's menstruating you're committing a mortal sin? If so, do you ignore it because it seems silly and anachronistic? As a true Christian, if your younger brother dies childless, will you take his wife until she bears you a male heir? Do you believe you SHOULD do this? Do you think, if you rejected this commandment from God, you would be committing a sin? Would you simply accept that you're sinning in this way, and ask for his forgiveness?Wang
As far as mortal sin goes,that doesn't exist biblically. That's a man made catholic thing- not one bible scripture backs that up. As far as the menstruating thing goes-gross, and I really don't know. I wouldn't reccomend that, bible or not. I mean, that's just gross, dude. There are scriptures I believe that allude to that, something along the lines of women not being clean during that time, but I really haven't looked into it and to be honest at church, nobodys ever even asked. As far as the brother thing, no. New Testament commends one man for woman, forsakeing all others. Old Testament Law allowed for more than one wife, as we all know.
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something about separating themselves from the 'dirty' romans and stuff, something along the lines of civil disobediance.i'm not talking about discussing topics biblically, what about the idea that you might be wrong, maybe christianity is wrong. do you ever ponder that? and if the only conclusion you can reach is "well i'd rather beleive, that way if i'm right i go to heaven instead of hell and if i'm wrong the same thing happens either way" then that seems pretty weak. What is your motivation for believing in the christian faith?[/quote No. Old Law was largely based on the outward, outward shows of faith in God. New Testament Law focuses on the man inside. Under Old Testament Law, you could sin and once you slaughtered a goat, butchered and burnt in the right way you could be forgiven- now, it's what we do inside that God sees that matters. The only blood that matters under New Testament Law is Jesus blood. I question whether christianity is wrong, of course, and when I always come to this conclusion- no. I mean, look at the other ideas available and christianity(true christianity) comes out on top everytime. I love that you assumed that I believe just in case- that is as far from the truth as can be. I believe because the things in the bible are true, the effects of sin as evidenced in society are very real, and the things that Jesus brought- all of it- do nothing but make you a better man. The problem you have isn't with christianity- it's with the fake christianity we see everywhere, the kind that is aimed to please the masses so they can feel better about the things they refuse to change. Real christianity makes sense,it works- fake versions just cause more questions.
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Really? Seems like it's pretty literal to me. Seems to ME like you're picking and choosing. What's the difference? You're selectively choosing which parts of the Bible to believe. I don't think it was common at ANY time for "we should kill them both" to mean the same as "we should make 'tsk-tsk' noises and gestures at them both, you know, in general. Mostly we should just make them feel bad, is what I'm saying." That's hypocritical garbage, and you know it. Wang
what i mean is follow gods word.there are alot of books in the bible that are not written by christians, there are these books there to get perspective from all sides.i do not want to go out and kill homosexuals. it is designed to follow GODS word, not every law put down by everybook.the bible is just a massive collection of relevant texts, the only law to follow is GODS law put down by GOD personally in the books that he wrote, or that he inspired others to create.
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what i mean is follow gods word.there are alot of books in the bible that are not written by christians, there are these books there to get perspective from all sides.i do not want to go out and kill homosexuals. it is designed to follow GODS word, not every law put down by everybook.the bible is just a massive collection of relevant texts, the only law to follow is GODS law put down by GOD personally in the books that he wrote, or that he inspired others to create.
And which ones are those? Just for future reference, so I know which parts of the bible you're going to say, "Doesn't count. Not God's word." This argument gets difficult when the target shifts like this.
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The problem you have isn't with christianity- it's with the fake christianity we see everywhere, the kind that is aimed to please the masses so they can feel better about the things they refuse to change. Real christianity makes sense,it works- fake versions just cause more questions.
Nh
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gonna play it safe here and go with the good 'ol "Judge not lest ye be judged". Only God will have the final verdict.
Hmmm...My thoughts: - It's crazy for non-christians and christians to be debating this in the same thread. - Everyone sins so homosexual acts are not the reason one will or will not be saved - The debate in the Christian world should stop and start on whether Christian marriages should be performed for a couple of the same sex, and whether an active non-impulsive and self-promoting sinner should be ordained - The debate in the secular world is whether we're going to treat people differently based on religious beliefs- Homosexuals cannot pro-create, so we heteros need not worry about gay world domination
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lois, old law is just the old jewish laws, moses...all jewish laws up until the time of jesus.Matt, if you believe the bible, without questioning why you believe it or if it is valid then you are, my friend, simply a robot.
wow bwtoth... you appear to realize that ur last question was not very bright so you choose to personally attack us who u know nothing about? Further what does this hav eto do with anything? You were askin how i make my decisions..i talk about a normal persons process (not just a christian) and you say this? Was this ur plan from the start..to get to this point?? Just b/c you dont know what yoru talkin about doesnt mean u need to attack a person
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