HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Recently Michael Craig wrote an interesting blog about the sale of Harrahs and the potential impact on the WSOP . Maybe Daniel or Harry D. could chime in with their feelings/predictions.http://craigsjournal.pokerworks.com/2006/1...rrahs/#more-186 Link to post Share on other sites
PokerFan 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Some good thoughts on the WSOP and Harrahs pending sale. He mentions that the WSOP brand may not even be a top 10 asset in the new owners eyes...I think the WSOP brand will be one of those assets that after the sale is approved the new owners will ask. "What do we do with this" and after a few train wreck years with lower entries in the ME they will sell off the WSOP. I can't see how the Harrahs sale is good for the WSOP Brand. The new owner will go in and strip as much money off Harrahs as they can to show stock holder value and some parts of the sale (wsop) will be left in the dust. Here is a random thought...How bout a group of players forming a company to buy the WSOP and run it as they see fit.. You can not tell me the likes of Brunson/Ivey/Andy Beal etc. can't pull this off. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 I can't see how the Harrahs sale is good for the WSOP Brand. The new owner will go in and strip as much money off Harrahs as they can to show stock holder value and some parts of the sale (wsop) will be left in the dust.As Michael Craig mentioned, costs at the WSOP were tiny already. Its hard to strip money from something that has already been stripped naked: "Long-term, new ownership is likely to be positive for the World Series. Several reasons: (1) How much worse would someone do than the current owners? (2) The new owners would not be acquiring the World Series with the idea of cost-cutting to increase profits. Costs are ludicrously small already."I agree with Craig that long-term, the sale of Harrahs will be good for the WSOP: "Either the price will be sufficiently attractive or, more likely, a new owner will see a way to leverage the World Series brand into further profitability. If that’s the case, the new owner will be motivated to protect the core, having the World Series run well, be popular and well-attended, and be liked by the customers. (I admit that this should have been the motivation for Harrah’s to do better with the Series, but their orientation was different. They paid almost nothing for the Series and had little in the way of plans to operate it or figure out the best way to profit from it. I believe that they eventually would have figured out that they have to spend money to make money and that their actions were positive for short-term profitability but negative for long-term profitability.)" Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 Here is a random thought...How bout a group of players forming a company to buy the WSOP and run it as they see fit.. You can not tell me the likes of Brunson/Ivey/Andy Beal etc. can't pull this off.Im pretty sure Andy Beal would not be interested.As for Ivey, Brunson etc. well they just don't have that kind of money. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 yeah, i just got news on the buyout last night.at the moment i'd guess that the wsop is a pretty small part of the transaction Link to post Share on other sites
PokerFan 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Im pretty sure Andy Beal would not be interested.As for Ivey, Brunson etc. well they just don't have that kind of money.Andy Beal is not interested in making money????...Probably a good thing that you can not get close enough to Andy Beal to mow his lawn.. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 Andy Beal is not interested in making money????...Probably a good thing that you can not get close enough to Andy Beal to mow his lawn..Obviously I was just making an assumption. Just because you enjoy playing poker and are a businessman it doesn't mean that you are going to buy the WSOP. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Obviously I was just making an assumption. Just because you enjoy playing poker and are a businessman it doesn't mean that you are going to buy the WSOP.Harrahs is carrying 10 billion in debt. Doesn't that seem high to anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
crocd99 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Harrahs is carrying 10 billion in debt. Doesn't that seem high to anyone?not really considering all the casinos they buildif any other company or person is going to buy the wsop i think that espn probably would. that way they wouldnt have to shell out all that money to the company that does own it. if they own it then its all profit for themthey could do it and i think they that they have done something like it recently. i thnk i heard that they bought something around 50% of the arena football league. Link to post Share on other sites
PokerFan 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Harrahs is carrying 10 billion in debt. Doesn't that seem high to anyone?It might be, however Harrahs as a big company needs to carry a certain level of debt for tax purposes and so on. Link to post Share on other sites
idiotpimp 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Who is really in position to buy the WSOP brand?The two big players in the casino market were Harrahs and MGM Mirage. Harrahs is being sold off and MGM Mirage has an exclusive contract with the WPT.The only other possibility I can think of would be the Wynn.Ideas? Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
mulhs82 2 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Harrahs is carrying 10 billion in debt. Doesn't that seem high to anyone?Most large companies carry long term debt.I actually read a report that talked about that debt doubling after the approval. So it could be a while before they start to expand as they are going to pay down some of the new debt first.Harrah's CEO Tells Key Employees Debt To Double Post-Buyout Dec 20, 2006 18:37:00 (ET)LAS VEGAS (AP)--Casino giant Harrah's Entertainment Inc.'s (HET) debt load will nearly double and its priority will shift to paying it down instead of reinvesting in growth after one of the biggest leveraged buyouts ever, according to SEC documents filed Wednesday. Harrah's Chief Executive Gary Loveman told key employees that the company's debt would rise to $21 billion, or eight times operating profit, from the current multiple of 4.7, after being bought by Apollo Management Group and Texas Pacific Group, according to a presentation he made Tuesday after the deal was announced. Other Securities and Exchange Commission filings show Harrah's current debt is $10.7 billion. Dow Jones Newswires Link to post Share on other sites
rgold79 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Here is a random thought...How bout a group of players forming a company to buy the WSOP and run it as they see fit.. You can not tell me the likes of Brunson/Ivey/Andy Beal etc. can't pull this off.Sorry, but this is not a good idea. The integrity of the game demands that it is run by an insitution without an interest in any of the outcomes. Harrah's Entertainment meets this standard, and it's one of the reasons they don't let employees participate. If a group of poker players want to buy the brand, and agree to meet corporate standards and not participate I guess this could work. Given Doyle's recent stock-related issues, I'm guessing he's not in any hurry to get into anything like this.Harrahs is carrying 10 billion in debt. Doesn't that seem high to anyone?Not for a large multinational corporation, no. I don't know what direction Harrah's will be taken in, but some of the ideas the author suggests seem a little antiquated as regards private equity in this era. For people who follow business in general and the gaming industry in particular it will definitely be an interesting transaction to follow. Link to post Share on other sites
mulhs82 2 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Who is really in position to buy the WSOP brand?The two big players in the casino market were Harrahs and MGM Mirage. Harrahs is being sold off and MGM Mirage has an exclusive contract with the WPT.The only other possibility I can think of would be the Wynn.Ideas? Thoughts?I would actually look for Penn National Gaming to step in and make a bid for some of the assests that could be sold off after this goes through. They were actually trying to make some bids to purchase Harrah's themselves. Obviously they aren't a front runner to acquire much of the assests, but I'm sure if they were to get the brand name, they could work out a deal with a larger casino group to actually house the events. Link to post Share on other sites
rgold79 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Who is really in position to buy the WSOP brand?The two big players in the casino market were Harrahs and MGM Mirage. Harrahs is being sold off and MGM Mirage has an exclusive contract with the WPT.The only other possibility I can think of would be the Wynn.Ideas? Thoughts?Well, no, there are other, larger, gaming companies, such as Las Vegas Sands. LVS has a market cap of over $30B, more than twice Harrah's, and much larger than MGM's as well. See: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/co?s=LVSThis obscures the point, however, that possibility of Harrah's being broken up is speculation only at the moment. Since Apollo and TPG have publicly thrown their support behind the Harrah's business model, it would seem that there is a very real possibility they will keep the company as is. Again, the modern private equity market is not about buying companies and ripping them apart. As an aside, the WSOP name has proven to be a profitable brand. No matter what ends up happening in the end, someone is going to run it and run it well. As long as people pour money into poker, poker will be made available. Simple supply and demand ensures that. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 if any other company or person is going to buy the wsop i think that espn probably would. that way they wouldnt have to shell out all that money to the company that does own it. if they own it then its all profit for themI was actually just about to post this. Would definitely be interesting to think about. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 I wouldn't be surprised if the WPT makes a run at it! Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 I read about a month back that Wynn might take a run at buying the wsop and move it to Macau. Highly unlikely but who knows. Link to post Share on other sites
rgold79 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 if any other company or person is going to buy the wsop i think that espn probably would. that way they wouldnt have to shell out all that money to the company that does own it. if they own it then its all profit for themthey could do it and i think they that they have done something like it recently. i thnk i heard that they bought something around 50% of the arena football league. I was actually just about to post this. Would definitely be interesting to think about.ESPN's parent company is Disney - I'm guessing they don't want to get into the gaming business. Acquiring television rights is one thing, actually acquiring the brand itself would be a tremendous regulatory and public relations headache for a company that prides itself on a family-friendly image. Link to post Share on other sites
Ouch-8s 4 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 I wouldn't be surprised if the WPT makes a run at it!From what I gather the WPT is cashpoor and probably cannot afford it.I'd like to see OnGame buy the WSOP. Then they could repeatedly turn the lights off in the middle of the tournament, and randomly take people's cards for no apparent reason. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 ESPN's parent company is Disney - I'm guessing they don't want to get into the gaming business. Acquiring television rights is one thing, actually acquiring the brand itself would be a tremendous regulatory and public relations headache for a company that prides itself on a family-friendly image.Good point didnt even think about that. Link to post Share on other sites
MychCumstien 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Maybe Trump should buy the WSOP. After all, he is worth "many billions of dollars". Link to post Share on other sites
360f1 0 Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 The folowing is inside information. I cannot tell you how I know it.Harrahs current management has a contact to stay for 5 years.The group that is buying harrahs sees the WSOP as one of its most valuable assets and one of its its best opportunities for growth. Independant analysts value the WSOP brand at over $1 billion. Additionally it is a cash cow, producing in excess of $100 million in profit last year. They cannot afford to give up that cashflow.Don't expect to see it spun or sold off. Instead expect to see it grown. Link to post Share on other sites
StrippersNBlow 0 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Maybe Trump should buy the WSOP. After all, he is worth "many billions of dollars". Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 The folowing is inside information. I cannot tell you how I know it.Harrahs current management has a contact to stay for 5 years.The group that is buying harrahs sees the WSOP as one of its most valuable assets and one of its its best opportunities for growth. Independant analysts value the WSOP brand at over $1 billion. Additionally it is a cash cow, producing in excess of $100 million in profit last year. They cannot afford to give up that cashflow.Don't expect to see it spun or sold off. Instead expect to see it grown.wow they bought the whole thing including the horseshoe casino(which they sold off) for 60 million 2 years ago. not a bad roi Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now