Bizzle 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Bizzle, I didn't watch any of the updates or things like that, what were the stack sizes and blind/ante structure coming in to 3-handed play. Actually anybody if you know that, can you help a tall white man out?Updated Chip CountsThe updated chip counts with 3 players remaining are:Daniel Negreanu $8,100,000Joe Hachem $6,500,000Jim Hanna $3,400,000That's after 5 hands or so, in which DN lost about 1mil to Hachem. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Updated Chip CountsThe updated chip counts with 3 players remaining are:Daniel Negreanu $8,100,000Joe Hachem $6,500,000Jim Hanna $3,400,000That's after 5 hands or so, in which DN lost about 1mil to Hachem.Blizzinds? Link to post Share on other sites
Bizzle 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 Blizzinds?50-100k for a little bit more, then 80-160k. Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I <3 BizzleThat is all! Link to post Share on other sites
RhinestoneCowboy 2 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 What I'm trying to tell you, is that you are totally wrong. Laak is a backgammon player and plays strictly mathematical. He's more of a math guy than most anyone on that list.Never question the Daniel!!! Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I <3 BizzleThat is all!I < ...ummm...pretty much everyone that's posted. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I think I also have to throw my name into the list of people who disagree with DN's approach to the 3-handed game in this particular tourney. From what I can tell, the blind/ante structure entering 3 handed play had a little bit less than 300k in the pot preflop everytime. This is a huge percentage of Hanna's stack, and roughly 5% of Hachem's stack. From what DN has said, they were willing to limp and call small raises and see flops. At this point, I don't understand why this is what he wants. From everything I've ever seen of Hachem, he doesn't like to play huge preflop pots, so DN is playing perfectly into his strategy. It would seem to me that DN should be able to raise/reraise Hachem with virtually any 2 and have it be +ev due to his willingness to fold non premium hands. In regards to Hanna, on the hand DN busted, he claimed to have folded 1010 which would lead me to believe that he's very concerned with the pay jump, and would also be a person who DN could steal blinds from pretty consistently, while only risking <1/4 of his stack. The situation seemed optimal for DN to raise and reraise nonstop preflop, and I'm not talking about min raising. Again, I wasn't there so I won't defend this stance too vehemently but from all the information I have from the outside looking in, DN's approach 3 handed was sub optimal. Link to post Share on other sites
Vick12 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I < ...ummm...pretty much everyone that's posted. Yes Scott...you are < than everyone who posted here!!! Now...while I do <3 most in the thread....Bizzle gets special love for creating a good strat thread in General that somehow didn't find a moderator's to move it.Cheers!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Ouch-8s 4 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I <3 BizzleThat is all!Well, according to my math, 3 Bizzles would be 18 feet tall. Most of us are smaller than that... Link to post Share on other sites
RhinestoneCowboy 2 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Well, according to my math, 3 Bizzles would be 18 feet tall. Most of us are smaller than that...The man has a point... Although 3 bizzles would probobly weigh about 300 lbs, in which case some on the forum may >3 Bizzle Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I will never get over how cool it is to have a professional player talking on a forum about a final table he played in just days ago Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Bizzle, I didn't watch any of the updates or things like that, what were the stack sizes and blind/ante structure coming in to 3-handed play. Actually anybody if you know that, can you help a tall white man out? I think I also have to throw my name into the list of people who disagree with DN's approach to the 3-handed game in this particular tourney. From what I can tell, the blind/ante structure entering 3 handed play had a little bit less than 300k in the pot preflop everytime. This is a huge percentage of Hanna's stack, and roughly 5% of Hachem's stack. From what DN has said, they were willing to limp and call small raises and see flops. At this point, I don't understand why this is what he wants. From everything I've ever seen of Hachem, he doesn't like to play huge preflop pots, so DN is playing perfectly into his strategy. It would seem to me that DN should be able to raise/reraise Hachem with virtually any 2 and have it be +ev due to his willingness to fold non premium hands. In regards to Hanna, on the hand DN busted, he claimed to have folded 1010 which would lead me to believe that he's very concerned with the pay jump, and would also be a person who DN could steal blinds from pretty consistently, while only risking <1/4 of his stack. The situation seemed optimal for DN to raise and reraise nonstop preflop, and I'm not talking about min raising. Again, I wasn't there so I won't defend this stance too vehemently but from all the information I have from the outside looking in, DN's approach 3 handed was sub optimal.No offense, but...Huh? Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey16 1 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 No offense, but...Huh? but he kills the 180 SNGs on Stars, so he mus know. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 No offense, but...Huh? What's hard to follow, I didn't follow any of the action AS IT OCCURED, but afterwards went back, looked at the stack sizes, blind structure and the basic tendencies I know of the players left, and made an analysis based on the information I had. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Again, I wasn't there so I won't defend this stance too vehemently but from all the information I have but he kills the 180 SNGs on Stars, so he mus know.Get reading comprehension. Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Again, I wasn't there so I won't defend this stance too vehemently but from all the information I have Get reading comprehension.How much is it? Where do you buy it? Can you get it from Full Tilt with your FT points?I kid, I kid... Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey16 1 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Again, I wasn't there so I won't defend this stance too vehemently but from all the information I have Get reading comprehension.I read fine. I just didn't know that based on the 100 hands of poker that they've showed Joe Hachem play on TV that you were aware of his tendencies.1,000 apologies, sir. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I read fine. I just didn't know that based on the 100 hands of poker that they've showed Joe Hachem play on TV that you were aware of his tendencies.1,000 apologies, sir.Or maybe I could go by the information that DN has posted in this thread that Joe Hachem plays small ball. Oh.EDIT: I don't care about this anymore, I never claimed my analysis was great, I simply posted my thoughts based on what I knew. I also never claimed to be a great player (my stars stats pretty much destroy any claims I could make) and that my analysis should be agreed upon by everyone because I'm so great. Link to post Share on other sites
DoinSublime 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Thanks for taking the time to dissect some of your play Daniel. -newby Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey16 1 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Or maybe I could go by the information that DN has posted in this thread that Joe Hachem plays small ball. Oh.So if DN plays small ball, and so does Hachem, and if DN thinks he can outplay Hachem, why should DN change up his game to play bigger pots preflop? If DN is in raising and re-raising any two, do you think Hachem won't be good enough to recognize this at some point and gamble himself with an above average starting hand, knowing that he'll have to do that to counteract DNs strategy? Am I missing something, or is playing big-ball preflop poker not making it more of a crapshoot, and taking away DNs post-flop +EV, which he feels he has?I don't know who's right or wrong. I'm enjoying the discussion, and appreciate the analysis that Bizzle did, and found it interresting, and also DNs responses as to what his perceptions of the situation were in the moment.I made a simple joke in respose to a post that you made yesterday, but you've obviously got it all figured out. Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 So if DN plays small ball, and so does Hachem, and if DN thinks he can outplay Hachem, why should DN change up his game to play bigger pots preflop? If DN is in raising and re-raising any two, do you think Hachem won't be good enough to recognize this at some point and gamble himself with an above average starting hand, knowing that he'll have to do that to counteract DNs strategy? Am I missing something, or is playing big-ball preflop poker not making it more of a crapshoot, and taking away DNs post-flop +EV, which he feels he has?I don't know who's right or wrong. I'm enjoying the discussion, and appreciate the analysis that Bizzle did, and found it interresting, and also DNs responses as to what his perceptions of the situation were in the moment.I made a simple joke in respose to a post that you made yesterday, but you've obviously got it all figured out.I get defensive. You bring up interesting points though. According to Daniel, for small ball to work out well, you have to hit some flops and your opponents can't hit every flop. Now, I agree that DN probably plays better small ball poker than Hachem, he probably plays it better than virtually anyone. It's my opinion though, that if he were to play "long" ball or whatever you'd like to call it preflop, he can pick up more pots uncontested and not allow his opponents to see and hit every flop against him for cheap. Yes, eventually there is an inevitable all in showdown that must occur with this style, but if he correctly picks his spots and chips up, his stack size should grow to a point where he won't be crippled by losing an all in pot. Obviously this doesn't work everytime, but it seemed to me this was the best strategy given the situation and his two opponents (one of whom is an extremely talented poker player, and no slouch at playing flops either.) I apologize for getting upset, I take things too seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
AceofSpader 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 I get defensive. You bring up interesting points though. According to Daniel, for small ball to work out well, you have to hit some flops and your opponents can't hit every flop. Now, I agree that DN probably plays better small ball poker than Hachem, he probably plays it better than virtually anyone. It's my opinion though, that if he were to play "long" ball or whatever you'd like to call it preflop, he can pick up more pots uncontested and not allow his opponents to see and hit every flop against him for cheap. Yes, eventually there is an inevitable all in showdown that must occur with this style, but if he correctly picks his spots and chips up, his stack size should grow to a point where he won't be crippled by losing an all in pot. Obviously this doesn't work everytime, but it seemed to me this was the best strategy given the situation and his two opponents (one of whom is an extremely talented poker player, and no slouch at playing flops either.) I apologize for getting upset, I take things too seriously.Hey Mr. Grinder,For future reference, read my sig! =)AoS Link to post Share on other sites
GrinderMJ 0 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Hey Mr. Grinder,For future reference, read my sig! =)AoS? Link to post Share on other sites
RhinestoneCowboy 2 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Hey Mr. Grinder,For future reference, read my sig! =)AoSAoS, Please refer to my sig if you have any further opinions on this topic.RC Link to post Share on other sites
renaedawn 1 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 AoS, Please refer to my sig if you have any further opinions on this topic.RCI would venture to say that my sig is much more appropriate to AoS at this juncture. Link to post Share on other sites
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