How Big Of A Slump Can I Expect?

[Alex916F 0]

Ever since that 100 dollar buy in live tourny that i bubbled i have ran horribly on stars...in 27 man sng's i have not been able to break the top 4 and in tournies i have been making really shallow cashes. As a result i have seen my online br diminish to 3/5 of what it once was.... it was at 500 i play mostly 5 dollar 27 man's with a 10 thrown in once in awhile with mtt's ranging from freeroll to 10 dollars.... mostly in the 4.40 range howeverso i know htat i have been frustrated and i definately think i have made some mistakes and that is why i havent done well in some but there are also a great deal of me getting it in with the best of it and losing.... or going card dead and getting in a desperate state and pushing in and losing a coinflip.....

[pokerfan1080 0]

Tourney variance is the devil. I too went through the same down swing with tournies. So, I started to concentrate on cash games and did very well. Problem is, I went back to the tournies and the results were mixed. Did well for a while, then it got sour again.I do well in the cash games, but the tourney challenge is tough for me to avoid. I just enjoy the tournies much more.Anyway, if you haven't tried ring games, give it a whirl. I make most of my money in the cash games, enough to fund my tourney habit. If nothing else, my br maintains itself this way.

[UncleHoot 0]

Maybe it's just me, but the cheap tournies on Stars seems to be filling up with a combination of aggro-donks, and calling-stations. I've made a few posts about this recently. Making a good fold turns out to be "a bad fold". I need to figure out how to adjust my game accordingly. Perhaps you've been experiencing the same thing. In my opinion, things have changed in the last 2-3 weeks, but maybe it only seems that way because I've been losing a lot*. LOL*(well, $150-$200 is a lot to me) Won it all back and then some by placing 3rd in a $10 180-man last night. w00t!

[Yahkin 0]

They can last a while...which is why you want a nice bankroll to survive them. Pokerfan's advice is good, sometimes you just need a change of pace to pull out of a slump. Switch to cash games, drop to lower buyins to hone your game, maybe even switch up types of poker to give your NL neurons a break.Here is my last 4 months history. You see there was a rough 3 week period in there. I had to step back and re-evaluate things. Took a couple days off, then when I came back I was religious about only playing 1 table at a time so that I could really evaluate my play. It took longer to build back up, but I am a better player for it.

[alanstats 0]

My longest with no cashes is 16. My longest with no ft is 86.

[copernicus 0]

you may go dozens of tourneys withoug a cash, cash a little one, and miss dozens again...a bankroll of 100 buyins isnt suggested for fun.

[alanstats 0]

100 buy ins is critical if you plan to play high volume, push a lot of small edges, and play pretty much just to make final tables. A few days of losing races can decimate your br. If you play only 1 or two tourneys at once, 50 buy ins is likely enough.

[Alex916F 0]

thanks for the suggestions and support guys. i have dabbled in the cash games but ran poorly there as well, though it was only like 3 cash game sessions. during these times i just question whether i am a winning player or not, i dont know the right sample size. i have near 200 games recorded on sharkscope and it reports an ROI of 23 percent, am i getting a good idea of my play by now? sometimes i just wonder cuz i have had a couple big cashes in 180 man's that make me think the numbers maybe skewed a bit.so anyways i think i will be cutting out all 10 dollar buy in tournies though the 15k guarantee and the 6-max are so hard to say no to. I think i may concentrate on my 5 dollar 27 mans and 180 mans.... we will see if i can turn it around.

[Alex916F 0]

Keep me from breaking my computer.....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)CO (t4710)Button (t1035)Hero (t3125)BB (t3050)UTG (t3365)MP1 (t2540)MP2 (t1660)Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A . UTG raises to t300, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t650, 1 fold, UTG calls t350, MP2 folds.Flop: (t1700) 5 , Q , 2 (2 players)Hero bets t750, UTG calls t750.Turn: (t3200) Q (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets t800, Hero calls t800.River: (t4800) 3 (2 players)Hero bets t925 (All-In), UTG calls t925.Final Pot: t6650Results in white below: Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and queens). UTG has Ac 4c (straight, five high). Outcome: UTG wins t6650. please tell me i did something wrong??? raise more pre flop??? but i want action???? let it go on the turn? bet out on the turn??? wtf i just dont understand these pplit wont stop....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t1553)BB (t4468)UTG (t828)UTG+1 (t5441)MP1 (t3050)MP2 (t1480)CO (t6720)Button (t1880)Preflop: Hero is SB with T , T . 4 folds, CO raises to t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t750, 1 fold, CO calls t450.Flop: (t1600) 8 , Q , 8 (2 players)Hero bets t803 (All-In), CO calls t803.Turn: (t3206) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t3206) A (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t3206Results in white below: Hero has Ts Th (two pair, queens and tens). CO has Qs 6c (full house, queens full of eights). Outcome: CO wins t3206.

[copernicus 0]

Keep me from breaking my computer.....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)CO (t4710)Button (t1035)Hero (t3125)BB (t3050)UTG (t3365)MP1 (t2540)MP2 (t1660)Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A . UTG raises to t300, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t650, 1 fold, UTG calls t350, MP2 folds.Flop: (t1700) 5 , Q , 2 (2 players)Hero bets t750, UTG calls t750.Turn: (t3200) Q (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets t800, Hero calls t800.River: (t4800) 3 (2 players)Hero bets t925 (All-In), UTG calls t925.Final Pot: t6650Results in white below: Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and queens). UTG has Ac 4c (straight, five high). Outcome: UTG wins t6650. please tell me i did something wrong??? raise more pre flop??? but i want action???? let it go on the turn? bet out on the turn??? wtf i just dont understand these pplit wont stop....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t1553)BB (t4468)UTG (t828)UTG+1 (t5441)MP1 (t3050)MP2 (t1480)CO (t6720)Button (t1880)Preflop: Hero is SB with T , T . 4 folds, CO raises to t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t750, 1 fold, CO calls t450.Flop: (t1600) 8 , Q , 8 (2 players)Hero bets t803 (All-In), CO calls t803.Turn: (t3206) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t3206) A (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t3206Results in white below: Hero has Ts Th (two pair, queens and tens). CO has Qs 6c (full house, queens full of eights). Outcome: CO wins t3206.

Definitely raise more preflop. You want heads up action or to take the pot right there more than you want mutiple callers.2d hand id do the same.

[SlackerInc 0]

Definitely raise more preflop. You want heads up action or to take the pot right there more than you want mutiple callers.2d hand id do the same.

Agreed. First hand I'd push, though a lot of people might consider it a little early to do so. A personal guideline that admittedly doesn't specifically come from HoH or anything like that is that if I have pocket jacks or better (or AK) in this type of situation, where the blinds+raise+call elevate the pot to 25% or more the size of my stack, I'm pushing. It might be mathematically better to raise to say 1000 here, but there's a psychological factor. If they fold, I'm going to show, and if they don't, they'll see my premium hand at showdown. The message I'm conveying, which for me makes up for whatever edges I'm losing by pushing a bit precipitously, is "when I push, I'm going to have one of the best hands possible". This won't be true later in the tournament when my M is low, but if people think it is, I will have purchased myself a good chance of getting them to fold something like pocket nines when I push (in an unopened pot) with deuces, ace-eight, or even six-five suited. It's basically extra fold equity purchased in advance.The second hand strikes me as a clear push, no way around it. The raise you did make wasn't big enough, as Copernicus said, yet it consumed half your stack. Thus you were pot-committed and had no move but all-in after the flop, even with that pesky overcard sitting there. CO may not even be a bad player: his first raise was a defensible move to steal the blinds given his stack and position in an unopened pot; your reraise gave him attractive 3-1 pot odds to call; and if he is savvy and thinks you are a smart, tricky player yourself, he may have interpreted your reraise as a re-steal attempt. Your postflop all-in also provided him 3-1 pot odds. At that point, you're a desperate pot-committed short stack in his eyes, and he's got top pair and thus another defensible call.Pushing preflop changes all this. He faces pot odds of less than 2-1, plus an opponent willing to lay his tournament life on the line. Now you've changed the equation so he's screwed. Even if he calls and gets lucky (as he obviously would have had he called), he pays too high a price given his starting cards, and unlike you he has no folding equity, so this is technically considered a "win" for you. It's not a win if you use results-oriented thinking, but if you think long term you'd always want your opponent to call bets they don't have the proper pot odds to call, especially since after a push the caller gets no implied odds if he hits a big hand, and no chance to bluff you off the winning hand.

[pokerfan1080 0]

Keep me from breaking my computer.....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)CO (t4710)Button (t1035)Hero (t3125)BB (t3050)UTG (t3365)MP1 (t2540)MP2 (t1660)Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A . UTG raises to t300, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t650, 1 fold, UTG calls t350, MP2 folds.Flop: (t1700) 5 , Q , 2 (2 players)Hero bets t750, UTG calls t750.Turn: (t3200) Q (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets t800, Hero calls t800.River: (t4800) 3 (2 players)Hero bets t925 (All-In), UTG calls t925.Final Pot: t6650Results in white below: Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and queens). UTG has Ac 4c (straight, five high). Outcome: UTG wins t6650. please tell me i did something wrong??? raise more pre flop??? but i want action???? let it go on the turn? bet out on the turn??? wtf i just dont understand these pplit wont stop....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t1553)BB (t4468)UTG (t828)UTG+1 (t5441)MP1 (t3050)MP2 (t1480)CO (t6720)Button (t1880)Preflop: Hero is SB with T , T . 4 folds, CO raises to t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t750, 1 fold, CO calls t450.Flop: (t1600) 8 , Q , 8 (2 players)Hero bets t803 (All-In), CO calls t803.Turn: (t3206) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t3206) A (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t3206Results in white below: Hero has Ts Th (two pair, queens and tens). CO has Qs 6c (full house, queens full of eights). Outcome: CO wins t3206.

Alex, sorry to see you running like this. I know exactly how you feel (most probably do). I too have been hit with a run of bad beats that include an odd number of 1, 2, 3 and 4 outers. It's frustrating as hell to play good poker and be taken out of a tourney by some donk who hits.In hand 1, I would raise more preflop, probably to at least 900-1000. On the flop, you need to protect against draws so your bet wasn't high enough. You'll need to bet at least the pot, or push. Your check on the turn then gave villain an opportunity to see a free card, his bet was weak so a call is probably not out of line unless he was a tricky player. River was not good becasue it filled the straight and flush draws that were available, but you were prety much pot commited at that point. However, I think I may have checked and folded to a bet.Hand 2, Raising to 750 is half your stack, having put that much of your stack in you might as well just push.

[smallwd 0]

Keep me from breaking my computer.....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)CO (t4710)Button (t1035)Hero (t3125)BB (t3050)UTG (t3365)MP1 (t2540)MP2 (t1660)Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A . UTG raises to t300, 1 fold, MP2 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero raises to t650, 1 fold, UTG calls t350, MP2 folds.Flop: (t1700) 5 , Q , 2 (2 players)Hero bets t750, UTG calls t750.Turn: (t3200) Q (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets t800, Hero calls t800.River: (t4800) 3 (2 players)Hero bets t925 (All-In), UTG calls t925.Final Pot: t6650Results in white below: Hero has Ad As (two pair, aces and queens). UTG has Ac 4c (straight, five high). Outcome: UTG wins t6650. please tell me i did something wrong??? raise more pre flop??? but i want action???? let it go on the turn? bet out on the turn??? wtf i just dont understand these pplit wont stop....PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero (t1553)BB (t4468)UTG (t828)UTG+1 (t5441)MP1 (t3050)MP2 (t1480)CO (t6720)Button (t1880)Preflop: Hero is SB with T , T . 4 folds, CO raises to t300, 1 fold, Hero raises to t750, 1 fold, CO calls t450.Flop: (t1600) 8 , Q , 8 (2 players)Hero bets t803 (All-In), CO calls t803.Turn: (t3206) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t3206) A (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: t3206Results in white below: Hero has Ts Th (two pair, queens and tens). CO has Qs 6c (full house, queens full of eights). Outcome: CO wins t3206.

Hand 1: I like to reraise 3x the raise add the size of a raise for any callers, so I'd probably go to 1200 here. With your stack size, I don't think a push is unreasonable either. There's a decent amount in the pot and you may get a call if one of your opponents puts you on a steal.Hand 2: I don't think your stack is big enough to mess around with on 10s. If you had say 3500, you could make this play. Depending on my read of the villain and the BB, this is push or fold for me.

[Alex916F 0]

for both i think where i may have gone wrong is trying to squeeze as much value out of them as i could. i knew that they are premium hands so i decided to take a risk in which i could chip up a great deal. With the AA i knew my raise was low and very attractive he called, it wasnt the end of the world. i bet small on the flop to try and keep him in or look weak so he would come over the top especially if he had a Q. i check the turn to induce a bluff but the second Q slows me down to a check call type mode. by the end its true i am priced into this pot so i call. the TT i want to do the stop and go. i have read about it but fell like it isnt a tool i use enough. 2/3 of the time he is missing the flop so if i raise enough for him to call but to miss the flop and fold to a flop bet i am squeezing more value out of it. also if i were to push and he were to call i would get to see all 5 cards and i only want him to see 3. i did give him 3/1 odds but i was getting the same so if this play works one outta 3 times i am profiting, if that guy is calling with that type of hand in the future i am going to profit big time........ but yea , i definately coulda played those hands differently.

[copernicus 0]

the TT i want to do the stop and go. i have read about it but fell like it isnt a tool i use enough. 2/3 of the time he is missing the flop so if i raise enough for him to call but to miss the flop and fold to a flop bet i am squeezing more value out of it. also if i were to push and he were to call i would get to see all 5 cards and i only want him to see 3. i did give him 3/1 odds but i was getting the same so if this play works one outta 3 times i am profiting, if that guy is calling with that type of hand in the future i am going to profit big time........ but yea , i definately coulda played those hands differently.

Stop means stop! The more you raise preflop the better odds villain has to call on the flop and the more committed he is to the pot psychologically. You cant "force" value out of hands when you are short stacked (unless youre opponents are brain dead). The only situation where the risk is worth it is if you are in LP, its folded around to you and you have AA or KK, and you know that the Button or blinds are very active preflop. Even KK is questionable for "extracting value".