What Does It Take To Be A Successful Player?

[alanstats 0]

For limit players, the magic point when they "click" seems to be when they reach a point where the proper play mathematically is obvious to them, and they nearly always make the right play mathematically. Obviously, at higher limits, much deeper strategy is involved, which I can't even grasp (I was always a limit donator). But I think just by mastering the math, and all the aforementioned br management, one can be a successful limit player. I play NL, cash and mtt, and the point at which I felt successful was quite different. Even when I had mastered the math, I still wasn't successful. Eventually, after playing a ton, and tons of experimenting, I began to think more intuitively about the game. I was definitely developing reads, and then making plays based on these reads. Part of it was clearly playing within stakes where I felt comfortable shoving my stack with a great draw, or executing a bluff. I also learned to stop caring about bubbling. I think you just play enough hands and things do start to click...but this was only after a long time of losing, then break even poker...looking at hand histories, and looking at my play objectively and working hard to improve. If you have no desire to get better, you can still continue to play poker for fun, win a bit, lose it back, and it can still be an enjoyable hobby.

[Actuary 3]

here's a sample table...wr sd 1.5 15 BR RoR vs 100 BR100 0.2635971 100.00%200 0.0694835 26.36%300 0.0183156 6.95%400 0.0048279 1.83%500 0.0012726 0.48%600 0.0003355 0.13%700 0.0000884 0.03%800 0.0000233 0.01%900 0.0000061 0.00%the RoR falls at a greater percentage rate than the BR increases.makes sense since RoR is a exponential function of BankRoll * (2WR/Var)

Don't think so.Pretty sure it would look something like this.

yep.

[Sluggo 0]

If you're a breakeven player or worse, that line will be a horizontal line at 1.

[Actuary 3]

If you're a breakeven player or worse, that line will be a horizontal line at 1.

fo sho.kinda neat to mess with itwell, if your trying to pass time away at a job you gave notice to Friday and are really bored.

[pkr_emprr 0]

*money management*--that is if you can get all the other essential skills down well enough to have money to manage.I had a longer post, but no need for so many words, my advice is keep as much money in your roll as possible.

[DoinSublime 0]

You have you act like your schlong is 12 inches long, man, or else you'll never be a great card player. So:I Wang You

Sigh.Sometimes I wish I had a 12 inch schlong, instead of this fuc.kin monster. Now if I just had a bankroll....

[Sefaje 0]

What does it take to be successful? Money, Management. money management.beating the game (at low stakes) takes a few months of playing and reading etc. that's not a problem for those who want to be successful.it's ALL about money management. no tilting, no spewing, no uncalculated risks, no doing stupid **** with your money. If you can be disciplined, there is almost -no way- to be unsuccessful. especially with rakeback and deposit bonuses. The 110k hand downswing i posted about, i just about broke even due to rakeback and deposit bonuses. it took me a whole week of finally running good and one good MTT score and i was (all added together) up a couple hundred. granted thats pretty shitty for how many hours i played, it goes to show that even during the worst of luck (and after going through hundreds of hand histories and finding that i wasn't playing optimally) that if you keep your cool and dont do stupid **** you will come out ahead.for those who read that thread and care, im back to my original stakes and my BR is at an all time high =)

[Abbaddabba 0]

ANother interesting hting about risk of ruin is that as your winrate doubles, your risk if ruin goes down by more than a factor of two for a set bankroll..5BB/100 winner with a 300BB bankroll has a risk of ruin of 26%1BB/100 winner with a 300BB bankroll has a risk of ruin of 7%2BB/100 winner with a 300BB bankroll has a risk of ruin of 0.5%4BB/100 winner with a 300BB bankroll has a risk of ruin of 0.002%*for a stdv of 15

[theresa113 0]

I can tell you what not to do, since I am great at being unsuccessful...When playing online, do not surf and post on FCP, cruise Myspace and write articles in your blog while looking up song lyrics to the music you are listening to and talk on the phone. Don't buy a bunch of poker books and only read the first chapter and never revisit the book.When playing live, don't drink alcohol, talk and socialize, play with your phone and browse the internet with it or read a fashion magazine.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

How am i wasting value? I see it as getting extra money for putting in 1million hands. Wang - do you play a lot of short handed limit? It's really easy to have 100bb swings. I had a 200 downswing this week and if I didn't have a bigger br, it def. would've been a lot more stressful mentally, and I don't need that to interfere w/my game.Don't get conservative br management mixed up with being a conservative player. My stats are pretty LAG 34/23/2.69 - that's not exactly the mark of a conservative player. There is nothing wrong w/conservative br management, especially when you're winning a good amount at that level.oh, and when i replied about discipline/br management, I'm assuming that you're a decent player.

First off, I'm a decent player. Not great, but I do fine. I pay off too much, and when I'm playing w/o PTracker my reads leave something to be desired. Also, I get out of line in the blinds, sometimes.If you've got some reason other than your bankroll to play until you make 1000 BB at some level, then that's fine. Perhaps you'd like to make sure you're not just running hot. Perhaps you just want to play 100K hands. Maybe you don't think you can beat the level above you. Maybe you want some extra spending money, or security. I'm not saying just because you have the bankroll to move up that you SHOULD move up, and I think that's how some of you interpreted what I was saying. When I first started playing, I played .5/1 until I made 2000 bucks. And then 1/2 until I made 2000 bucks. The first SESSION I played 3/6, I won something like 100bets. I could have moved up later that week, but wasn't sure if I was ready to jump to 5/10, so I played for another couple months, just to make sure I was running close-to-even. (shrug) Etc., etc.But your RoR isn't that significantly impacted- ESPECIALLY if you're willing to drop a level or two if you run cold- by having a 500BB roll or a 1KBB roll. And, Abba, it really doesn't matter what limits I play, does it? Wang

[antistuff 0]

i think the most important thing is brutal self honesty. admit when you suck, how you suck, when youre outclassedself control and disipline are a close second.

[Abbaddabba 0]

And, Abba, it really doesn't matter what limits I play, does it? Wang

You're recommending that people move up pretty fast, ideally. Im not disagreeing. But i want to know if you do it.I assume that you think you're capable of beating bigger games when they're good.And you've been playing long enough that you have the cash saved up to play that big.So you should be playing 100/200's when they're ripe for the picking.Do you?

[Shimmering Wang 1]

You're recommending that people move up pretty fast, ideally. Im not disagreeing. But i want to know if you do it.I assume that you think you're capable of beating bigger games when they're good.And you've been playing long enough that you have the cash saved up to play that big.So you should be playing 100/200's when they're ripe for the picking.Do you?

I have a bad feeling you didn't even read my last post. I wasn't suggesting that having 300BB is a sufficient condition for moving up. Yes, it's NECESSARY, but it's not sufficient. Like I said 2 or 3 posts before: I moved up when I felt comfortable. I usually had less than 500 in my BR, but most of the time I'd won 5-800+ at the level below. You're a smart guy. You see how this is different. I think players SHOULD move up ASAP if they can beat the game ahead and are rolled for it. Always. I moved from 5/10 to other levels very quick, with the minimum roll to do so because I was SURE I could win. Sadly, I ran bad and lost. I chipped up again, tried again, etc.Look, man. I can't beat a 50/100 game. But I've had 30K in my account before. That's not the point. I think you KNOW that's not the point.POINT: If you can beat the game above you and you're properly rolled, there's no reason not to play that game. Hyperoverrolling yourself is silly. If you can beat a game for a significant number, what's the difference between 400, 500, and 1000?Wang

[Abbaddabba 0]

Im not talking about playing it indiscrimately. Sometimes the games are good, sometimes they're tough.I have 30k in my account, but im not going to sit in on the good 50/100 games i see even if im pretty sure i'd be a winner in that game at that point in time. Do you play in them?Im not trying to go anywhere with this. I just want to know.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Im not talking about playing it indiscrimately. Sometimes the games are good, sometimes they're tough.I have 30k in my account, but im not going to sit in on the good 50/100 games i see even if im pretty sure i'd be a winner in that game at that point in time. Do you play in them?Im not trying to go anywhere with this. I just want to know.

Yeah. In your spot, I'd probably sit in that 100 game. I'd never be able to beat a 100 game, I don't think. But if I could and I had an adequate roll, I'd surely play. I suppose if my edge was something horribly small I'd pass, decidingto chip up more and shrink my RoR. But I don't get it. If you've got 30k to gamble with, and you're playing the 60 game, and you know you have an edge in the 100 game..... Why, may I ask, would you not play the 100 game when you have an edge?Wang

[Abbaddabba 0]

I thought when you called a game by a single number, it was the blind.ie: the "60 game" would be the 60/120.Anyways, i dont even play 30/60s though. At the moment, I just wouldnt be able to deal with losing. $5k wont come close to busting me, but i'll probably freak out and feel depressed for a week.I think if you were selective enough you could find good 50/100 tables. It might be rare, but there are donators at least occasionally that high (i dont want to name names, but i think we have one on this forum).

[navybuttons 15]

I thought when you called a game by a single number, it was the blind.ie: the "60 game" would be the 60/120.

correct. if you want to be put on the board for 10/20 omaha and 15/30 stud, you would say "10 omaha and 15 stud."now i'm curious who the donator at 50 holdem is.

[pkr_emprr 0]

correct. if you want to be put on the board for 10/20 omaha and 15/30 stud, you would say "10 omaha and 15 stud."now i'm curious who the donator at 50 holdem is.

Im the donator at 50...... cent holdem

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I thought when you called a game by a single number, it was the blind.ie: the "60 game" would be the 60/120.

Yeah, it is. I was pretty drunk last night. I don't even really remember the post, so I can't give you a rationale for the mistake.Yeah, I really want to know who's spewing at 50/100. I'm going to guess.... iggymcfly. Just because I know absolutely nothing about him.Also, being forced to exercise good table selection sucks. I'm so lazy I'll just play consistently at a level I know I can beat most of the time no matter who's sitting. I played in a live game a few weeks ago that was just sickly bad. There was ONE weakish player, and he was directly to my left. If I hadn't run good, I would've gotten fucking killed.

[homnig 0]

I'd say Al smooth...

[iggymcfly 0]

I'm not easily offended. If you were referring to me, you can come out and say it. I only played 1,300 hands there though and I haven't played it in a month so I wouldn't categorize myself as a 50/100 player, let alone a 50/100 donator. I will also say that I did see players drop in occasionally that were much, much worse than me, and I think that if someone like Abba were to sit and watch the game on the weekend without playing, he could undoubtedly pick spots where he'd have a sizeable edge.I'll also say that there's a big emotional component to playing that high though. Just because you have an edge when you first sit down, doesn't mean that you're play's not going to deteriorate quickly if you get stuck, or that you'll want to get up and go to bed if you lose 30 BB right off the bat. It is important for people to play at levels where they're comfortable instead of constantly jumping limits because they're addicted to the gamble. The player who cuts into his profit by playing overrolled is making a much smaller mistake than the player who constantly jeopardizes his BR by taking shots and doesn't want to move down when he's losing.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I'm not easily offended. If you were referring to me, you can come out and say it. I only played 1,300 hands there though and I haven't played it in a month so I wouldn't categorize myself as a 50/100 player, let alone a 50/100 donator. I will also say that I did see players drop in occasionally that were much, much worse than me, and I think that if someone like Abba were to sit and watch the game on the weekend without playing, he could undoubtedly pick spots where he'd have a sizeable edge.I'll also say that there's a big emotional component to playing that high though. Just because you have an edge when you first sit down, doesn't mean that you're play's not going to deteriorate quickly if you get stuck, or that you'll want to get up and go to bed if you lose 30 BB right off the bat. It is important for people to play at levels where they're comfortable instead of constantly jumping limits because they're addicted to the gamble. The player who cuts into his profit by playing overrolled is making a much smaller mistake than the player who constantly jeopardizes his BR by taking shots and doesn't want to move down when he's losing.

I didn't even know you played that high. I just picked a random person I know absolutely nothing about. One of my friends was playing, and I would play a few orbits for him on a table or two when he needed to go to the bathroom, talk onthe phone, or make dinner. I've played ~200 hands at the 50/100 level, for a net profit of 14 bets. It was awesome, because he would give me 50% of whatever I made. It was great, because at the time 700 bucks was sweet.Wang

[Jennings7 0]

Like others have said, I believe the most important thing to be a successful player is discipline, and by discipline I mean not tilting or steaming, obviously not splashing around in pots you have no business being in because you're bored, and paying attention at the table. If you have any idea how to play cards, and exercise good discipline at the table, you can do well at poker.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I also didnt know that he played that high.But as is the case for anyone, if you havent won regularly at the 30, there's a good chance that you'll be a loser at the 50 or 100 (absent of other comparable experience).