Big Preflop Pot With Qq

[Bubba83 0]

Ultimate BetLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$48 playersConverterPre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with Q Q UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button caps, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.Flop: 2 7 8 (18.5SB, 4 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero ????What's our line?I had played about 110 hands at this table and no pots that I can recall were capped preflop, and definitely not multiway. Table was fairly passive before this hand came up. As far as individual player reads, UTG+1 was the same loose guy that limped 60% of the time preflop with anything as in the AQ hand I posted earlier. He was a passive player though, and his raise here tells me he does have a real hand. Button had been at the table for only about 50 hands, but hadn't played often up to this point, so I respect his cap.

[TheCinciKid 0]

This is tough b/c I think you almost have to be there, but I probably end up raising the flop and calling down if raised. If they call and check to me I'm bet/calling the turn, and maybe bet/folding if the turn is a K or A.

[Bubba83 0]

I've seen a few people look at this and not reply, I think it's pretty obvious that we are raising the flop, but I wanted to get into more discussion about what to do if X, X and X happen before I show what I did and progress further through the hand. Should I just post what happened in the first place instead?

[TB17 0]

I've seen a few people look at this and not reply, I think it's pretty obvious that we are raising the flop, but I wanted to get into more discussion about what to do if X, X and X happen before I show what I did and progress further through the hand. Should I just post what happened in the first place instead?

If the question isn't about the flop play, then we need to know what happened. You are asking a vague question, therefore you'll get a vague response. Raising the flop is obv here.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Raise the flop to isolate. Cap the flop if 3-bet, call down from there if no K or A show up.

[antistuff 0]

Raise the flop to isolate. Cap the flop if 3-bet, call down from there if no K or A show up.

you need to raise here. there are many things that could happen after that so you'de have to give us some more of the action.

[Actuary 3]

we're never isolating by raising the flop.We're better off waiting for a non A/K turn as well as seeing what happens behind us on the flopCall flop.Stick around for any bets (it will kinda suck if capped back to you)We're raising non A/K turns if lead into, unlesss flop is capped.In which case we see Showdown if it's not 2 back to us, imogenerally.

[Bubba83 0]

Ultimate BetLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$48 playersConverterPre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with Q Q UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button caps, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.Flop: 2 7 8 (18.5SB, 4 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Button caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.Good or bad? Why or why not?

[Actuary 3]

At fairly passive table, you are now drawing to two outs.Now, only question is, is it worth calling: Yes (barely)At 32.5 : 2, you have implied odds to hit a Q on that board. (7 more BB"s on turn and river are feasible with 3 villains pumping like that)Given this action, call, and fold turn UI.so much strength being shown here.I see UTG with 99+, MP2 hit his set (or maybe JJ), Button has QQ+

[Bubba83 0]

We need 45:2 odds to spike our queen and break even. (actually losing a bit after rake) Since we have 32.5:2 now, we need to make up 12.5 SB by the river, or 6.25 BB with implied odds if we spike our queen on the turn, and keep in mind that's excluding the bets we voluntarily put in the pot. I'm not so sure we get that many, I think calling the flop and folding are close.

[Actuary 3]

We need 45:2 odds to spike our queen and break even. (actually losing a bit after rake) Since we have 32.5:2 now, we need to make up 12.5 SB by the river, or 6.25 BB with implied odds if we spike our queen on the turn, and keep in mind that's excluding the bets we voluntarily put in the pot. I'm not so sure we get that many, I think calling the flop and folding are close.

yeah, I coverd that.with 3 players loving their hands, the Set will cap and AA-KK is probably putting a few in as well. 7 BB's is going to happen enough with this action.You also have the fact that it's going to be at least 21 BB pot that you can avoid tilt with just a 1 BB call here on flop. That emotional impact of seeing a Q hit on the turn cant be ignored..when the call is at worst a tiny fraction of a bet mistake

[Bubba83 0]

yeah, I coverd that.with 3 players loving their hands, the Set will cap and AA-KK is probably putting a few in as well. 7 BB's is going to happen enough with this action.You also have the fact that it's going to be at least 21 BB pot that you can avoid tilt with just a 1 BB call here on flop. That emotional impact of seeing a Q hit on the turn cant be ignored..when the call is at worst a tiny fraction of a bet mistake

If the queen does hit, JJ, TT, 99 will now be folding, With that said though, I think you're probably right, IF one of these guys has a lower set we will get enough to make it worth it, but we don't really know one does, even though it is a good possibility the way MP2 has played the hand.Also, I may be part of a small majority here, but if a queen hits the turn after I've folded it would not put me on tilt one bit. Not that I'm trying to say I never tilt, I do, but I tilt over different circumstances, not over something like that.

[Actuary 3]

the other day I folded AA on a xxT T board after betting the turn and getting raised.He had JJ. Man, I'm rusty.I post better than I play sometimes.

[RISEorFall 0]

i dont see how you can not expect to make up about 7 bets here, or think that TT or JJ will be folding in this huge pot to a Q.

[Bubba83 0]

I'm curious about how you'd play this hand Zach?

[Zach6668 513]

I'm curious about how you'd play this hand Zach?

Yeah, this is a tough one, and kinda why I've been holding off on it, lol.I don't disagree with anything in this thread, another reason why I've held off...I would raise the flop, and of course call the cap, as played, since we are getting great odds, and are even ahead sometimes.The thing I have an issue with in this thread is the argument that a Q hitting will fold TT, JJ, and it seems someone implied that if these ands fold, we won't make up the 7 bets we need... well, if they have these hands, we don't need to make up any bets as we were ahead. I really want to call the cap on the flop, and I really want to see a showdown.It's tough on the turn. The problem is we are trapped between two aggressors.I'm not 100% convinced we are beat here either. This could be JJ vs JJ vs QQ even, who knows. Are any of these players particularly aggressive postflop?If UTG+1 checks the turn, we have a really easy decision here, we check and call one back.If UTG+1 bets, that is when I would strongly strongly consider folding, UI, especially if something like a T or J hit the turn. I think the odds of it being raised behind us are too big, and at that point, it'd be pretty safe to say we are beat.On the other hand, this pot is f'ing monstrous. If we can get to SD for 2 bets, which is pretty much what will happen if UTG+1 checks, then we are getting 8.5-1 to call down, so we only need to be good here ~10.5% of the time, factoring in implied tilt odds, etc, I would be ecstatic getting to SD for 2 BB.Anyways, it's likely we are beat here, but I'd like to get to SD for 2 BB past the flop, but we're put in a sick spot if UTG+1 leads the turn.- Zach

[Bubba83 0]

The thing I have an issue with in this thread is the argument that a Q hitting will fold TT, JJ, and it seems someone implied that if these ands fold, we won't make up the 7 bets we need... well, if they have these hands, we don't need to make up any bets as we were ahead.

We need to make 7 bets if we improve by the river or else our call on the flop was wrong (if we think we're behind, which I think we almost always are)

It's tough on the turn. The problem is we are trapped between two aggressors.I'm not 100% convinced we are beat here either. This could be JJ vs JJ vs QQ even, who knows. Are any of these players particularly aggressive postflop?

It is tough on the turn, which is why I folded on the flop, and these players are not aggressive at all postflop. As I said before, this is the first hand that went crazy bonkers like this in 110 hands.

Anyways, it's likely we are beat here, but I'd like to get to SD for 2 BB past the flop, but we're put in a sick spot if UTG+1 leads the turn.

UTG+1 has never shown weakness in the hand, the unfortunate part is that on both preflop and on the flop, we don't know if he'd put in a 5th bet if he could because it's already capped and he's forced to call even if he loves his hand in both places.

[WhatArunAA 0]

This is tough b/c I think you almost have to be there, but I probably end up raising the flop and calling down if raised. If they call and check to me I'm bet/calling the turn, and maybe bet/folding if the turn is a K or A.

I concur

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I really like the flop raise, even though there's a good chance you're not ahead.And, I like the fold, too. Calling isn't horrible. You're getting a decent price, and you might be able to make up the- what is it?- 6 or 7 bets on the turn and the river? In situations like this, I usually just end up rolling my eyes, and deciding whether I think I'm drawing to 2 outs... or whether I'm good sometimes as well. You gotta be good pretty often- or be SURE that if you hit that you'll win a ton o fbets- to call.But I feel like we're drawing pretty slim, here. I don't know the players, but I'll assume they play well-ish. I can see myself folding the flop here, when the action is to me, most of the timeIt's tough to really give a good hand analysis without a good read on the capper, but Button open-capped preflop, and Buton open-capped postflop. So. I'm pretty unhappy with my hand...Too-long Conclusion:I think I play the hand very, very, very much like you do. Occasionally I'll call the flop, and see what develops on the turn. But even if you made the wrong call, I think you made the right call....Wang

[RISEorFall 0]

We need to make 7 bets if we improve by the river or else our call on the flop was wrong (if we think we're behind, which I think we almost always are)

i really dont see how you can think you wont make up 7 bets in later rounds, especially when the best are about to double.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

i really dont see how you can think you wont make up 7 bets in later rounds, especially when the best are about to double.

14 small bets. 7 big bets.

[RISEorFall 0]

14 small bets. 7 big bets.

so its 5 am im kinda drunk and my math suxi still dont see how you think you wont make up 7 bets

[Shimmering Wang 1]

so its 5 am im kinda drunk and my math suxi still dont see how you think you wont make up 7 bets

It's pretty rare that ANY hand- even 3-way- makes up 7 turn/river bets. So: why do you think HERO shall make up 7 bets if we snag our Q?

[Actuary 3]

It's pretty rare that ANY hand- even 3-way- makes up 7 turn/river bets. So: why do you think HERO shall make up 7 bets if we snag our Q?

we have 3 villains who all appear to like love their hands.we'll get 7 bets.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

we have 3 villains who all appear to like love their hands.we'll get 7 bets.

Well, first of all, I was hammered and didn't realize there were THREE villians (for some reason I thought there were two, which I think supports Bubba's line).Secondly, we can call here. Even if the villians slow down on the turn, we'll still be able to get a c/r in and a lead on the river to trap, at least, 2 players for a minimum of 6 bets, unless the BB has AK and is playing like a tard-face.It will also suck if one opponent has the case Queens (not TOO unlikely) and we are drawing dead vs. AA/KK