River Decision On Multiway Flush Card

[Actuary 3]

great, I disagree everywhere with Aseem.I don't dislike calling preflop, to be clear, it just makes for a tough hand like thisAnd having the flop check through blows.River, sometimes no one bets, say an overpair, and we get to sd for free. But, I think most overpairs have raised by now.along with FD's often.I also do not think overcards call here, but may bluff bet if chekd to

[akishore 0]

I don't dislike calling preflop, to be clear, it just makes for a tough hand like this

yeah, admittedly these hands are tough and if you want to avoid these very marginal situations, it's best to play tighter preflop.but i think if over time you build your comfort level in these situations, you'll be much more versed for tougher games as you move up or play more short-handed and ultra-short-handed and heads-up.and i think your winrate will go up, because the idea is that your opponents who are also playing loose are consistently making bad decisions in these same spots where you're making better decisions over time.they're tough hands, no doubt, but so what? =)

And having the flop check through blows.

if you play in games where this happens, i guess betting the flop is better. but i don't know, having the flop checked through here happens almost never in my average experience. i don't know, it's just such an incredibly rare thing to see.

River, sometimes no one bets, say an overpair, and we get to sd for free.But, I think most overpairs have raised by now.along with FD's often.I also do not think overcards call here, but may bluff bet if chekd to

i think the chances that overcards will bluff bet are lower than the chances that an overpair will check behind.and usually most overpairs will have raised unless the opponent is passive with a hand like 9-9 or J-J. and if they haven't raised, the chances that they check behind on the river if you check are decent, so that makes checking a little more attractive.maybe this is getting too specific without a read, but i notice that a lot of players are the type to bet if checked to but just call if bet to, with above-average hands.anyway, this is a reasonably close hand, those are just my two cents. as always, i could be wrong.aseem

[Bubba83 0]

It's good to see you back Aseem, and thanks for your input. I too am just starting to get back into the swing of things and back on this site. I didn't include reads and/or stats because I hadn't been on the table long, so you can assume mostly average players. With that said, at the time I was pretty certain MP3 would not play an overpair that way, I believe he would have raised somewhere. I put him on AK AQ AJ, which could have a flush. The way the hand played out, it seemed like one of the players most likely got there, which is why I thought checking and re-evaluating was good.

[CoranMoran 0]

If we have any confidence in our postflop skills, we must call this preflop.I can go either way on the flop.Leading out gains the most value if we are ahead.But everone will surely be calling one small bet.So we will be bloating the pot and probably giving odds for most hands to call us down on the turn as well.This seems to decrease the chances that our 8's remain on top by the end.River analysis:Checking- allows Villain to bluff- allows us to save a bet if it is 2cold when it gets back to usBut I have problems with these reasons.- Villain is not going to bluff this river often against 3 opponents.- The scenario in which we save a bet is quite rare.It is unlikely someone bets here without a Flush.And no one will raise a new bettor without a high Flush.This combo, in this order, is unlikely.Check-RaisingI understand the concept of the check raise on the river.But this situation does not seem to call for it at all.It would only work if we thought the bettor was bluffing and we thought we could fold a hand behind us that has us beat.That combo just isn't going to happen here too often.Betting outIs there value in a bet?I say yes.The pot is very large.If Villains do have a piece, I certainly believe they will call one more bet on the end.A piece = any 3, any 7, a worse 8, 22, 44, 66.And yes, I do feel these hands may be in play.Suited ace-rags and baby pairs are common hands from early-position limpers.I bet-fold the river.----------------In the current scenario, however, OP has already checked.We are very likely behind when we see someone bet.But I think it would be foolish not to call down this bet with such trmemndous pot odds.And fearing the players behind us is paranoia since they have shown no aggression on any of the 4 streets, including the river.--CM

[Actuary 3]

I think a LP bluff is slighlty more likely than getting called by worse hands when we lead the river. But not really the main point....coupled with the chance a better hand lets it check thru, fearing a flush or trips.We are usually losing this hand.We are not folding better hands.There's no clear reason to think more worse hands call than bet here.I think Coran and Aseem you are missing the times we get to see and lose for free here.

[CoranMoran 0]

I think Coran and Aseem you are missing the times we get to see and lose for free here.

I can see us getting a free showdown against a 5.But at this point, do you feel your scenario presents itself in any other situation?Everything else that beats us would surely have raised previously, right?--cm

[Actuary 3]

I can see us getting a free showdown against a 5.But at this point, do you feel your scenario presents itself in any other situation?Everything else that beats us would surely have raised previously, right?--cm

you'd think but not alwaysyou'd also think we never get bluff raisedthe possibility that more hands call than bluff here is so thin, that I assume the chance for a cheap losing showdown is worth it.

[Zach6668 513]

I still c/c this river.

[Bubba83 0]

Me too, and I think a 5 usually bets here and gets raised by a flush often enough for it to be foldable with 2 bets back to us.